I find the name of this to be very offensive.

I've also seen this pop up like clockwork once a week, and I'm embarrassed to say that I skimmed the entries and just assumed this was a WWII RPG where using the term Kristallnacht was possibly appropriate. Now that I realize it's an HP RPG, I'm stunned.

I agree with lavendertook: please, take the rename token and the (so far) polite advice about appropriating the term Kristallnacht.

No, it's saying that we understand how some people might take offense, and if they take offense we ARE sorry that we offended them

But you're not sorry for doing it. So, if I created an RPG community called "Let's rape marieantoinette and her mother and stab her father repeatedly until he dies", I could just say I was sorry that you were offended, but not say I'm sorry I did it, and that would be okay with you.

You don't seem to comprehend the extent to which you are cruelly offensive. You don't seem to even understand what it is you've *done*.

You are KIDDING me. This is completely unacceptable. You've been offered -- generously -- a chance to make it right. I suggest you take it, and quickly, before the entire internet comes down on your head. This is, quite simply, immoral. To make it clear: you're not good people if you're doing this.

The correct response is "We're sorry we offended you. We regret our mistake and have changed the name of our RPG."

The sooner you do this, the fewer people you will hurt and the less shattered your fannish reputation will be.

I do hope J.K. Rowling decides to sue your arse off.

Black caps has got to be the lamest name for someone's personal goon squad EVER.

Thank you for reminding me once again of why I don't tell people I'm in Harry Potter fandom.

Since my earlier comment seems to have disappeared - I wonder why - I'll repeat it. I sincerely hope that J.K.Rowling hears about this and sues your arses off.

I've just read the conversation that revolved around the renaming offer, and woah, that is some Olympic-level passive-aggressive entitlement.
Gosh, we don't mean to offend; oops, we didn't notice Holocaust Memorial Day; Gee, that renaming token is a lovely offer, but we really couldn't...

And behind all the honeyed words is this clear message:
Fuck you, and your valid comments and reason to be upset, this is our game and we do as we please.

But really, you're really, REALLY good people.

You get it, you just don't care.You don't even understand that that makes your decision even more offensive. A fictional game about a fictional race means more to you than a genocide, and you don't want people's grief and valid concerns harshing your squee. That is not the behaviour of 'really, really, good people'. I'm sure you've already mentally appropriated the Victim Card and are due to flash it at any moment.

Frankly, I can't wish enough wank and heartache to fall on your heads.You deserve it all.

I have an idea, since this is getting pointless.

You've expressed your opinions - you don't like the name. You're offended, and angry. And I'm sure those in-game understand your reasonings. Infact, I'd bet money on it. Choosing fitting names for roleplays are not easy - especially when they can be controversial.

They've expressed their opinions - they're sorry to have offended you, they understand the reasonings and know it is a name that could offend others. They weren't dead set on pissing off the world.

You don't have a gun to your head saying to join the roleplay. Or even read the promotion. You have no obligations to comment, and quite frankly, RP drama is annoying.

Thanks.

Bye.

I'm sure you didn't intend to be offensive. But I think you can see from all the anger that to a lot of people it is. And many of them are reacting as they are, I'm sure, because they're hurt by this - heck, I'm hurt by this. It's like calling an RPG set in China the Tiananmen Massacre. Or the Amritsar Massacre in an RPG about India. Or The Twin Towers in anything set in the USA. Does that help clear up why people are reacting like this? It's insensitive to trivialise something that hurt so many people and still echoes into their lives today.

*boggles* The fail, she is epic.

Hey people. Grow up. You can be pissed off all you want. But the internet's a miracle of free speech. No one is breaking a law by naming their community 'kristallnacht' and besides, if it wasn't for the Nazi's making it what it means today it'd just be a bunch of words. Everyone's going to complain about SOMETHING. Grow up. Seriously. It's a bloody GAME. There are no Nazis running around gasing people in the game so I don't see why these extremists are blowing things out of proportion.

Are you honestly sitting at your computer seething and throwing things because of the name of a Harry Potter game? If you are...get help. FAST. You clearly have several mental issues you need to have looked into.

Oh and in case any of you know fuck all about HP, JK herself BASED her plot around...*gasp* WWII and Nazis!

Voldemort? Alot like Hitler.
Death Eaters? SS anyone?

So until you lot go and 'bring the internet' down on JK Rowling, quit picking on a group of people on the internet. Cyber-bullying makes you look lame.

And most of you likely have NO TIES WHATSOEVER with goings on during the Holocaust.

My great grandmother died in Dachau and I'm not even remotely offended by these girls. So grow up.

Okay, so... did y'all not realize that there might be actual real human being people that are connected to Kristallnacht, and they might be online?

Like, you grew up in such an isolated community of all people with similar lives/mindsets, that you just don't get that outside of your little bubble people think differently? Because... 6 billion and counting. And surprise! Most of them don't think like you. At all.

And... you don't realize that there is actual physical pain that is caused to people because of something so trivial as an RPG's name? Because you are. And really, it would be far more creative for y'all to create your OWN name. You know, using JKR as a jumping off point, because it's in HER world, not the real world.

Otherwise, the assumption is y'all knew EXACTLY what you were doing, and I'd like to think you didn't do that. I'd like to.

I am so relieved to hear that YOU don't care about upsetting people. Wow. That is SUCH a HUGE relief to know that you don't care about the hurt you have caused others because of your shortsightedness and your selfishness because, I mean, what is the sorrow and anger of real people compared to your stupid little game? May you never learn what is is to care because if you did, you would be so ashamed of your behavior, your heart would break.

For shame.

Booo, my comment on the FAQ got deleted. I will repeat the most important bit here:

There is a thing called Godwin's Law. The short of it is that comparing any situation to the Holocaust, or comparing any person or group of people to Hitler and/or Nazis, means that you automatically lose whatever discussion is taking place. Because unless there is actual genocide of actual real people happening, you are wrong. Co-opting names and dates to add "weight" and "meaning" to your fictional game is cheap, stupid, and disrespectful.

Also I've lost track of who said it but I agreed and it's worth saying again: it's also very unoriginal of you, and if you feel that this sort of thing is the only way to make your bad guy believably evil and scary, then that's not a reason to use historical events as a game premise- that's a reason to work on your writing abilities.

I've seen a variety of analogies used in order to justify your use of Kristallnacht (in addition to a variety of attempts by your supporters to "other" the people who find the use offensive in order to more easily dismiss all the naysayers).

So, just to clear up any possible misunderstandings, and get in my two cents worth, here is a clue-by-four.

There is a vast sea of difference between alluding to broad concepts of genocide, slavery, discrimination, and the corruption of power, in order to help educate children about the moralities of such things, like Rowling did, and specifically co-opting a historical event sparked a mass genocide in order to play a game.

Moreover, there is a vast sea of difference between a role playing game that essentially turns Muggles into Jews and Grimwald into Hitler and other literary works like Schindler's List and Night. Your RPG is not comparable to these types of works. At all. For a variety of reasons, starting with the fact that Schindler's List and Night weren't created in order to help fans get their RPG jollies off. You didn't select Kristallnacht, as a name and a setting, in order to meaningfully explore what Kristallnacht means, both to Jews, and to the world. You didn't select Kristallnacht in order to explore, in any meaningful way, the historical significance behind Kristallnacht and its place in the history of WWII and the Holocaust.

I'm going to take an educated guess and surmise that you selected Kristallnacht because you thought it would be really cool to turn Muggles into Jews and Grindelwald into Hitler and the Nazis, and see what other really cool things you guys could come up with, based on that premise.

And, that's why people are pitching a fit over your game. Because you are co-opting a historical event that spurred, promoted, and justified the attempted (and almost successful) genocide of an entire people. And, you're doing this for an RPG game. And, you apparently thought of, but didn't care enough about how and why that might affect and hurt other members of fandom.

Or, you didn't care enough.

That's the bottom line. You getting to have fun takes precedence over the feelings of the people whose tragic event you co-opted.

And, that is why your RPG name, the premise of your RPG, and your response to criticisms over your RPG name and premise, is made of fail.

Not because you're some jerkoff on the internet who likes to get off by RPGing genocide. But, because you thought about what you were doing, and you just didn't give ENOUGH of a damn.

Whoa. I just woke up and I find this all in my inbox. I'm not going to respond to each comment individually, and I don't feel like constantly arguing and bashing is going to get anywhere. It will only lead to more anger on either side, building up spite, and none of us will get where we want to go.

So, let's try to get a little constructive. If we, the mods, were to rename the game, what might be some suggestions?

Hmm. Let's see. A community of people, some of which are probably going to role-play as fascists (but in a magic Harry Potter Universe), engaging in ethnic cleansing, and just be sure that no one misses the similarity to the Holocaust, you're going to call it Kristallnacht.

I'm willing to actually call this anti-semitism, which is NOT a word that I throw around likely, because guess which ethnic group's feelings they've decided aren't important here?. I'm not so into folks getting their jollies by pretending to be SS, even if it's in a magic fairytale universe, and they're killing "muggles". The name "Kristallnact" is only the icing on the big fat ethnic slap in the face cake.

First of all, please do your research and get your facts straight. The Reichskristallnacht took place on the night from November 9th to November 10th, 1938. World War II started on September 1, 1939 when the 3rd Reich invaded Poland.

The Reichskristallnacht was part of the Holocaust and not WWII. Both took place at roughly the same time, although the Holocaust with its systematic destruction of the European Jews basically began the moment Hitler was in control.

Anyway, November 9 is still a day where Germany remembers the victims of the Holocaust and that something like this shall never happen again. The Reichskristallnacht is also one of the reasons why November 9 is not the German National Holiday even though it was on November 9, 1989 after weeks of peaceful demonstrations that the Wall came down and the Cold War was basically over. Same nation, 61 years later.

Now, as a German I find it very offensive and painful that you would take such a sensitive topic and use it for a game. Some things simply shouldn't be used for games and the Reichskristallnacht is definitely one of the,. The term alone is too evocative and powerful.

What's it going to be next? Endloesung maybe?

It is one thing when a writer uses history to make a paint, create awareness and sensitivity and educate his/her readers. It's quite another when a sensitive topic is used for a frivolous game.

Please change the name to something more appropriate or abandon the game in its entirety.

No. Just.. NO

I'm not Jewish, or even Christian or even remotely interested in RPing HP or anything to do with your comm, and this offends me.

Igf you seriously gave tis any thiought, you would not have chosen the name you have.

Even JK Rowling knew better than to use NAMES of real events that have happened and would bring up many, many bad memories and offend many, many people.

You really need to do better research before you decide to use something that was so terrible for so many people.

I was going to suggest a "Nights/Knights of Walpurgis," too, or absolutely something with totalitarian overtones like "1984" or something Big Brothery and creepy "Grindwald is Watching You," with a bit of comforting/creepy benevolent cover art. "Grinwald for the Greater Good." And "Greater Good," was nice and succinct.

And, for silly buggers, something punkish. "Never Mind the Walpurgis," from the Sex Pistol song "Never Mind the Bollocks"

I wish you - sincerely - the best of luck in communicating with your fellow mods and players. It seems as if because people were so upset and not always polite, that keeping the name to be strong or not cave in to peer pressure became an entrenched response. Beyond all the "you're rather late in complaining," and "you're all sheep," "watch your tone," and "It's been 70 years, don't dwell!" I hope that they'll be able to hear that JKR implied Nazism, and implict allusion is very different than explict.

And explicit co-opting of such a tragic event for entertainment purposes can be a very, very hurtful thing. And poo-pooing legitimate hurt only compounds that.

Thank you for even bringing up the idea of changing the name, and opening a discussion of that. It's a graceful, hopeful gesture.

(By the way, I'm one of the throng who came over from LJ after reading comments about the game on my flist. I rarely participate in kerfluffles, but this one...I've visited oppressed societies (China, Haiti,) and talked to the persecuted and oppressed. Out of respect for them, I had to say something.)

I do not even have words right now for how ashamed I am of ever having been involved in the HP fandom in any way. Even my web site is embarrassing by association, and most of it's not even HP.

Good job.

(P.S.: I did not really mean the "good job" part. That was what we on Planet Earth call sarcasm. I offer this explanation because your alien leaders clearly did not instill much in the way of human understanding in you before they sent you here, and you need all the help you can get.)