- or tokens, as the case may be.

That's really sweet and nice of you, but I'm sorry, we really have no interest in changing the name of our game because it coincides so well with our plot and the canon story. JK Rowling has related the Death Eaters to the Nazis and in the last book, the way things were handled by the ministry and the way that the muggleborns were treated were parrell to the way the jews were treated. Also, for a long time, people were wondering if maybe Hitler was the same as Grindelwald, while she has stated that he isn't the same person, he had the same mindset. The canon in the Harry Potter world that we are based on is heavily influenced by factual events. We meant no harm, and we mean no offense, but real life influences art. By the same token, the Death Eaters and Voldemort are highly offensive fictional creations. The Christians churches have fought against the point of Harry Potter and it's connection to magic. It's all a matter of opinion and we're sorry that it offends you.

Complaints about making fun of Jewish experience has no parallels to Christian fundamentalist attempts to sensor HP due to its celebration of and play with witchcraft--drop this comparison now.

I've been seeing ads for this community come up on my flist every few days and every time I'd cringe, but didn't think to speak out until I saw other people speaking out this morning. It's time for you to stop making me cringe and others despair if you're serious about not wanting to offend and hurt people. You are offending and hurting people. JK Rowling knew how to handle the parallel's she was drawing with the Holocaust without drawing offense--part of how she did that is by not appropriating the very terms of that experience.

If you wish to correct your mistake, take the token you are being offered and change this community's name-because that name has serious meaning for many of us. Then work how you are referencing real events that hurt real people who are still living today into the thinking behind your role play writing, Good role play is interactive storytelling--don't take this subject lightly if you're going to write about it.

And for those of us who aren't writing in your game but see this game's title come up in our rpg promo communities, please respect our feelings, and change the name to something less painful for us.

The Christians churches have fought against the point of Harry Potter and it's connection to magic.

... so? How does this have anything to do with the vile offense you've created and are perpetrating?

And you shouldn't be sorry that it offends people; that's bullshit. Doing something awful and saying "I'm sorry *you're unhappy*" is not an apology; it's blaming the other person for taking offense rather than apologizing for YOUR ACTIONS, which are the problem.

Trust me, if you think you're not changing the name of this community, you need to take a look at what's churning around you. You are *beyond* vile.

No, it's saying that we understand how some people might take offense, and if they take offense we ARE sorry that we offended them, because the intent WASN'T offense, but we had very specific reasons why we chose the name, which is why we won't change it.

Everyone has their own opinion and everyone is entitled to it, but we never asked anyone who takes offense to it to join our game and no one is under any obligation to join it, if they think so poorly of the name.

the intent may not have been offense, but the result is. saying sorry isn't enough. especially since enough people are offended and will most likely tell everyone NOT to even look at this game simply because of the name, if you actually want people to join, take the rename token(s).

If you absolutely cannot or refuse to understand why you are offending people simply by using the name/word you are, then I suggest you go back to school and relearn your WWII history.

Just by *using* the name as you are, you are being offensive, and in very bad taste.

And in my opinion, that is fine for everyone to have their own opinion, but the harassment is ridiculous, and yes, it is very much harassment. We aren't harassing the jews. We're offensive maybe, and it was unintentional when we made the comm. Yes, we didn't understand the backlash and we do now, and we are considering the name change. We never said that we didn't understand, but the harassment pushes us towards NOT wanting to do something.

If you did the research you all claim to have done, you would have known exactly how offensive this is.

I call bull.

Yes, but you might notice that JKR still called them "Death Eaters" and not "Nazis." Because JKR might not know how to stop abusing the capslock key but she does know better than to co-opt the frakking Holocaust.

Name it something else. If your RPG premise is so tied up in the use of a single word, regardless of what that word is, then the problem here isn't your audience but in your writing skills.

The difference is, JKR writes fiction. She didn't trivialize heinous historical events by putting her fictional characters in the midst of them. There's a reason for that: she's intelligent enough to know better. You, apparently, aren't. I can't understand how anyone can be so willfully obtuse, to not understand how doing this would upset a LOT of people. And your lame apologies aren't apologies at all, just more of your arrogance. Grow up, figure it out, and change the name.

"we really have no interest in changing the name of our game because it coincides so well with our plot and the canon story."

Then you lose all credibility, and all your claims of "we're really sorry if we offend anyone" have no weight.

I suggest you haul yourselves over to a Holocaust Museum sometime, and enlighten yourselves. There aren't many survivors left alive these days, but I grew up knowing many, and I find your trivializing it for an RPG, including HUMOR, is insensitive, offensive, and horribly IGNORANT.

Yeah, been enlightened thanks. I've always had a deep interest in WW2. I've been scarred from videos on the holocaust when I was only 10 and forced to watch them. I understand the severity of what happened. I have jewish friends who have moved on and do not dwell, and jewish friends who know that we mean no harm by the game and don't take offense.

I'm not a mod, but I support the mods and their decision for the name fully, because unlike so many others I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened. It's been nearly 70 years. It isn't a matter of not respecting the dead. We didn't name the game "Auschwitz", we named it after a night in history when something very horrible "began", but the holocaust does not singularly come down to that one night.

But I'm also rather open minded and understand the difference between plays on words and fiction. It wasn't trivialized. It all comes down to the main character, with the connections that it has to that war. Enough people around us have said that it doesn't bother them. They're able to look past it and see it for what it is. It is your decision to take it so seriously.

If the mods change the name, it is entirely up to them, but being harassed to do so, is no better than what you're claiming we're doing.

Stop it. Please, now.

I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened

Again, you know what a genocide IS? I don't know what to say.

If you aren't a mod, then stop now. This will look amazing later.

Scarred at 10 by videos? Oh, please. And I mean PUH-LEEZE.

How about scarred because your friends' parents have concentration camp numbers tattooed on their arms? Because they once had brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, but don't anymore?

Don't DWELL? Just dismissing it like that is INSULTING and, yes, once again, IGNORANT. And it speaks to your lack of experience in this world. Really, I would advise you to step back about 10 paces, and realize that the deep feelings that have been stirred up by this RPG are not just hurt feelings, but deep wounds. This isn't just a STORY to people. This is LIFE. And death. They're not just upset because they've seen Schindler's List and feel bad, they're upset because anti-Semitism like yours still EXISTS. (And if you say you're not anti-semitic, you REALLY need some sensitivity training to understand that your and your friends with this game are demonstrating it)

You are not open-minded. You are narrow-minded, and determined to not understand the viewpoints of anyone who legitimately is damaged by your actions. It doesn't come down to the "characters", it comes down to the hurtful nature of your co-opting a MAJOR event in Jewish history and using it as a frakking PLOT DEVICE to further your game.

We are not harrassing you. We are attempting to educate you as to why what you are doing is so incredibly wrong.

When you are ten and watching human bodies roll down hills and into piles of human bodies, yeah it has an effect. Thanks. And i have no ill feelings towards the jews at all. There is no anti-semitism in my blood. I've just accepted human nature and history for what it is.

We don't need an education. It isn't about knowing or not knowing what happened. It was personal decisions that we made.

I'm not a mod, but I support the mods and their decision for the name fully, because unlike so many others I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened.

Genocide is one of those things we ought, as human beings, to dwell on. We shouldn't move on; we're not supposed to 'get over it.' The only way we have a hope of ultimately, finally preventing genocide from occurring over and over (as it has throughout the twentieth century, all over the world) is to refuse to forget, refuse to trivialize, refuse to let it go.

I'm not a mod, but I support the mods and their decision for the name fully, because unlike so many others I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened.

How magnanimous of you! Because of course it's entirely unreasonable and irrational for Jewish people—or Roma, or Sinti, or any of the other groups of people who were massacred during the war—to "harbour ill feelings" about a genocide of millions which happened within living memory!

You are not open-minded. You are the furthest thing from it. You refuse to see past your own entertainment, your own privilege, and see that at the heart of it, this is not about you. This is about the hurt and offence that your actions are causing others; this is about the salt you're pouring into wounds that will never heal; this is not about harassment or 'extremism', but rather asking that you treat your fellow human beings with dignity and respect.

I have jewish friends who have moved on and do not dwell, and jewish friends who know that we mean no harm by the game and don't take offense.

I hope you will someday gain enough brains and sense to realize that other Jews exist out there who might not be your friends, and might not fall within those exact same parameters.

I have spent hours today being upset and on the verge of tears due to this game. I am over it. Now I am angry.

1. Your interest in WW2 cannot be all that deep otherwise you would know dates.

Kristallnacht = November 1938
Attack on Poland, start of war = September 1939

2. If you had any idea about the severity of the Holocaust you would never dare to say things like: "because unlike so many others I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened."

3. You are not clever. You are not even particularly original. You are willfully ignorant. Stop saying you are sorry. If you were, you would stop hurting people.

4. No, I am not Jewish. I am German. My people, my family possibly, took part in that "night in history".

Stop. Just stop.

I have jewish friends who have moved on and do not dwell

Oh, so Elie Wiesel and other Holocaust survivors are whiny old geezers who just need to get over it? Do you have any idea how offensive your comments are? Clearly not, or you'd STFU.

Yes, by this point, I do and I'm indifferent to it. People are pulling "get over it" out of my words, but they were plain as day. i said not to "dwell", that doesn't mean get over it, forget about it. To not dwell means to not let it get to the point where you're arguing over a roleplaying game. A work of fiction, based off a work of fiction. There have been plenty of writers who offend, shock, and stir up things and it's a personal decision on whether or not to let it bother you. I don't think that there needs to be any dwelling, but I never said "GET OVER IT". Thank you.

I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened. It's been nearly 70 years. It isn't a matter of not respecting the dead. We didn't name the game "Auschwitz", we named it after a night in history when something very horrible "began", but the holocaust does not singularly come down to that one night.

Have you ever heard of the saying, "Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it? The only way we thick-headed flawed human beings learn from horrors like this is to remember, so that it may never happen again. Saying "It's been 70 years," like we, as the human race, should be over it by now, you big babies, is wow, I don't know how to say this nicely, unbelievably callous.

Gosh, it's only been 60 or so years since Stalin murdered or exiled those who disagreed with him, or that slavery occurred is okay because we've stopped now, or wow, we shouldn't be so upset over Indian or Chinese parents aborting their girl babies, or African boys fighting in wars and raping young girls is acceptable because hey, it's just their way!

You are, in effect, saying that grief and rage and disgust over an atrocity has a time-limit. That it's free game for use after almost everybody directly involved is dead or something.

And being upset or disgusted at the mods choice does not mean that we are "dwelling" on the past. It means we're still disgusted by the atrocity! It means that we are compassionate enough and ethical enough to respect that Kristalnacht is not something that should be used in fun, no matter how apt the parallels are.

It is like making jokes about rape. Would you tell a rape victim that because a certain amount of time has passed, that her memories can be co-opted? That it's okay to use her experience as an example because it fits your story and if she's upset, she's just dwelling on the past and should get over herself?

Y'all have to realize; this is personal, very personal to a lot of people.

It doesn't lessen the impact of the choice that Kristalnacht was a beginning. How on earth does that make it less painful to those who lost family members? How does it make it less painful to those whose family members were the ones breaking the glass? How does that make it less horrifying that one group of human beings did it to another?

It's still a word that represents great pain and suffering, and it was chosen for entertainment purposes. That "enough" people say it's okay doesn't make it right. "Enough" people saying it's okay to a bad idea is how the whole thing happened in the first place! That the moderators felt the need to devote a great deal of space to explain and justify their choice does not make it acceptable.

People standing up to say "you're wrong," isn't harassment, it's a plea to correct something that is offensive to many many people, jew and gentile and pagan and athiest alike.

This is probably the single most offensive comment I've read on LJ or IJ.

I have jewish friends who have moved on and do not dwell...because unlike so many others I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened.

You have a lot of fucking nerve. I can't remember the last time I was this enraged. How dare you insinuate that remembering the past and honoring the lost is dwelling and how dare you insinuate there's anything wrong with "harboring ill will" about the systematic extermination of human beings.

Oh gods, there is so much wrong with what you are saying...

I have jewish friends who have moved on and do not dwell, and jewish friends who know that we mean no harm by the game and don't take offense.

They didn't live through it. They will never understand what it was like.

It's been nearly 70 years.we named it after a night in history when something very horrible "began", but the holocaust does not singularly come down to that one night.

For those who lost everything, it DOES come down to that one night.

But I'm also rather open minded and understand the difference between plays on words and fiction.

This is not a play on words. This is using a name of an event that is very real. Not fiction, not made up. REAL.