"we really have no interest in changing the name of our game because it coincides so well with our plot and the canon story."

Then you lose all credibility, and all your claims of "we're really sorry if we offend anyone" have no weight.

I suggest you haul yourselves over to a Holocaust Museum sometime, and enlighten yourselves. There aren't many survivors left alive these days, but I grew up knowing many, and I find your trivializing it for an RPG, including HUMOR, is insensitive, offensive, and horribly IGNORANT.

Yeah, been enlightened thanks. I've always had a deep interest in WW2. I've been scarred from videos on the holocaust when I was only 10 and forced to watch them. I understand the severity of what happened. I have jewish friends who have moved on and do not dwell, and jewish friends who know that we mean no harm by the game and don't take offense.

I'm not a mod, but I support the mods and their decision for the name fully, because unlike so many others I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened. It's been nearly 70 years. It isn't a matter of not respecting the dead. We didn't name the game "Auschwitz", we named it after a night in history when something very horrible "began", but the holocaust does not singularly come down to that one night.

But I'm also rather open minded and understand the difference between plays on words and fiction. It wasn't trivialized. It all comes down to the main character, with the connections that it has to that war. Enough people around us have said that it doesn't bother them. They're able to look past it and see it for what it is. It is your decision to take it so seriously.

If the mods change the name, it is entirely up to them, but being harassed to do so, is no better than what you're claiming we're doing.

Stop it. Please, now.

I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened

Again, you know what a genocide IS? I don't know what to say.

If you aren't a mod, then stop now. This will look amazing later.

Scarred at 10 by videos? Oh, please. And I mean PUH-LEEZE.

How about scarred because your friends' parents have concentration camp numbers tattooed on their arms? Because they once had brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, but don't anymore?

Don't DWELL? Just dismissing it like that is INSULTING and, yes, once again, IGNORANT. And it speaks to your lack of experience in this world. Really, I would advise you to step back about 10 paces, and realize that the deep feelings that have been stirred up by this RPG are not just hurt feelings, but deep wounds. This isn't just a STORY to people. This is LIFE. And death. They're not just upset because they've seen Schindler's List and feel bad, they're upset because anti-Semitism like yours still EXISTS. (And if you say you're not anti-semitic, you REALLY need some sensitivity training to understand that your and your friends with this game are demonstrating it)

You are not open-minded. You are narrow-minded, and determined to not understand the viewpoints of anyone who legitimately is damaged by your actions. It doesn't come down to the "characters", it comes down to the hurtful nature of your co-opting a MAJOR event in Jewish history and using it as a frakking PLOT DEVICE to further your game.

We are not harrassing you. We are attempting to educate you as to why what you are doing is so incredibly wrong.

When you are ten and watching human bodies roll down hills and into piles of human bodies, yeah it has an effect. Thanks. And i have no ill feelings towards the jews at all. There is no anti-semitism in my blood. I've just accepted human nature and history for what it is.

We don't need an education. It isn't about knowing or not knowing what happened. It was personal decisions that we made.

BAD decisions. Really really bad decisions.

That you dare to say that others here are the extremists, and narrow-minded is mindboggling. Are you so blind to the condemnation which your little brainstorm game has garnered?

I'm done with you, but you deserve every angry comment you get.

you're entitled to your opinion. Thanks for your vote.

Unless those bodies belonged to your family and neighbors, you need to shut up. You are an idiot and an argument FOR forced sterilization.

And yes, you have lost the right to be treated with basic human decency. You obviously have no understanding of how you are contributing to the treatment of other people in the same manner.

Okay. I did reports on the Holocaust when I was 8, I know someone who wasn't Jewish and was forced into a concentration camp. She was Latvian. If you watched the videos of the trenches being filled with bodies and it had an effect, then why do you think it's no big deal to be using this name?

It's not about respect for the dead, or ill feelings, it's about respect for HISTORY. Taking a name like that and using it as it's being used, even though I know you're not the one that came up with it, is so disrespectful it nearly makes me sick. If the videos had an effect on you, think of the people who lived through it, who survived. Think of children taking care of their now elderly parents who were children then, who STILL wake up screaming in the middle of the night, having nightmares about the camps. It has nothing to do with respecting the dead, it has everything to do with respecting 1. those who are still living, and 2. those who the tragedy of world war 2 has affected and the legacy that STILL affects people today.

I'm not a mod, but I support the mods and their decision for the name fully, because unlike so many others I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened.

Genocide is one of those things we ought, as human beings, to dwell on. We shouldn't move on; we're not supposed to 'get over it.' The only way we have a hope of ultimately, finally preventing genocide from occurring over and over (as it has throughout the twentieth century, all over the world) is to refuse to forget, refuse to trivialize, refuse to let it go.

I'm not a mod, but I support the mods and their decision for the name fully, because unlike so many others I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened.

How magnanimous of you! Because of course it's entirely unreasonable and irrational for Jewish people—or Roma, or Sinti, or any of the other groups of people who were massacred during the war—to "harbour ill feelings" about a genocide of millions which happened within living memory!

You are not open-minded. You are the furthest thing from it. You refuse to see past your own entertainment, your own privilege, and see that at the heart of it, this is not about you. This is about the hurt and offence that your actions are causing others; this is about the salt you're pouring into wounds that will never heal; this is not about harassment or 'extremism', but rather asking that you treat your fellow human beings with dignity and respect.

I have jewish friends who have moved on and do not dwell, and jewish friends who know that we mean no harm by the game and don't take offense.

I hope you will someday gain enough brains and sense to realize that other Jews exist out there who might not be your friends, and might not fall within those exact same parameters.

I have spent hours today being upset and on the verge of tears due to this game. I am over it. Now I am angry.

1. Your interest in WW2 cannot be all that deep otherwise you would know dates.

Kristallnacht = November 1938
Attack on Poland, start of war = September 1939

2. If you had any idea about the severity of the Holocaust you would never dare to say things like: "because unlike so many others I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened."

3. You are not clever. You are not even particularly original. You are willfully ignorant. Stop saying you are sorry. If you were, you would stop hurting people.

4. No, I am not Jewish. I am German. My people, my family possibly, took part in that "night in history".

Stop. Just stop.

I have jewish friends who have moved on and do not dwell

Oh, so Elie Wiesel and other Holocaust survivors are whiny old geezers who just need to get over it? Do you have any idea how offensive your comments are? Clearly not, or you'd STFU.

Yes, by this point, I do and I'm indifferent to it. People are pulling "get over it" out of my words, but they were plain as day. i said not to "dwell", that doesn't mean get over it, forget about it. To not dwell means to not let it get to the point where you're arguing over a roleplaying game. A work of fiction, based off a work of fiction. There have been plenty of writers who offend, shock, and stir up things and it's a personal decision on whether or not to let it bother you. I don't think that there needs to be any dwelling, but I never said "GET OVER IT". Thank you.

A work of fiction, based off an atrocity that everyone should still have the common decency to show respect for.

Fixed that for you.

There are no words harsh enough for your willful and disdainful ignorance. Your responses to everyone's objections are the absolute low point of my 14 years online, and that's saying a lot. Congratulations.

In most normal conversations, "don't dwell" usually means "stop thinking about it and move on with your life", aka "get over it". You have to think about synonymous connotations. "don't dwell" is one of the worst things you could have said.

We're not arguing over a roleplaying game, we're arguing about the name the person who created the game chose to give the game. Which is offensive to many, MANY people. I'm all up for playing a game that has to do with the subject matter posted, it's the NAME, and the meaning behind it that has in this choice been ignored, that is offending. I'll play it if it's called "Der Bösenkinder" (The evil children), but to name an RP for the harry potter universe after one of the events that started one of the most horrific occurrances in 20th century history. That. Is. Just. Wrong.

The "plenty of writers who offend" also do it in different ways than I believe you're trying to show. They offend, but they also have to deal with their share of offended people just like this. So would you tell everyone who ever has a qualm to "stop dwelling on it"? because that's not how the world works, kleiner eins. the world's not a nice place. the mod/maker made not a nice name, and the people are going to respond in not a nice way. if you want the internet to be all sunshine and rainbows and shit like that, then you have to stick to sites like nick jr. The internet is not a nice place, and people are not going to just let all this horrid stuff happen around them without saying something. they're trying to IMPROVE their experience online, since we obviously have grown past nick jr and other kiddy sites. Yes, things have been blown out of proportion and now there's an army, mostly against you for speaking in favor of the mod/maker, trying to tear you limb from limb for your stupidity. Here's a hint. this is one of the opinions you keep to yourself, unless you want the collective forces of good to rise up against you and basically ban you from the internet entirely.

So you're not welcome. It bothers people, and you should learn to respect their opinion and let them have it. just because you don't see a problem with it doesn't mean there is NO problem with it. Dahmer didn't see a problem with cutting people up and keeping their heads in the fridge. Gacy didn't see a problem with killing people and keeping them in the crawlspace under his house, but there's obviously something wrong with that, and i hope you have enough brains in your head to be one of the people who would report something like that, not sympathize with the man because of his "bad childhood" or his "mental disabilities". Yes, i'm going and bringing in a much more worldly view than I'm sure is probably necessary, but maybe that will make you see why people are so angry. The name has horrible connections, it was a horrible night, and the night, and ensuing atrocities that followed, deserve respect, and not to be tacked onto a fun-time Roleplay. It's disgraceful.

Either kindly pull your head out of your ass or find someone to give you a plexotomy so you can see through your stomach.

I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened. It's been nearly 70 years. It isn't a matter of not respecting the dead. We didn't name the game "Auschwitz", we named it after a night in history when something very horrible "began", but the holocaust does not singularly come down to that one night.

Have you ever heard of the saying, "Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it? The only way we thick-headed flawed human beings learn from horrors like this is to remember, so that it may never happen again. Saying "It's been 70 years," like we, as the human race, should be over it by now, you big babies, is wow, I don't know how to say this nicely, unbelievably callous.

Gosh, it's only been 60 or so years since Stalin murdered or exiled those who disagreed with him, or that slavery occurred is okay because we've stopped now, or wow, we shouldn't be so upset over Indian or Chinese parents aborting their girl babies, or African boys fighting in wars and raping young girls is acceptable because hey, it's just their way!

You are, in effect, saying that grief and rage and disgust over an atrocity has a time-limit. That it's free game for use after almost everybody directly involved is dead or something.

And being upset or disgusted at the mods choice does not mean that we are "dwelling" on the past. It means we're still disgusted by the atrocity! It means that we are compassionate enough and ethical enough to respect that Kristalnacht is not something that should be used in fun, no matter how apt the parallels are.

It is like making jokes about rape. Would you tell a rape victim that because a certain amount of time has passed, that her memories can be co-opted? That it's okay to use her experience as an example because it fits your story and if she's upset, she's just dwelling on the past and should get over herself?

Y'all have to realize; this is personal, very personal to a lot of people.

It doesn't lessen the impact of the choice that Kristalnacht was a beginning. How on earth does that make it less painful to those who lost family members? How does it make it less painful to those whose family members were the ones breaking the glass? How does that make it less horrifying that one group of human beings did it to another?

It's still a word that represents great pain and suffering, and it was chosen for entertainment purposes. That "enough" people say it's okay doesn't make it right. "Enough" people saying it's okay to a bad idea is how the whole thing happened in the first place! That the moderators felt the need to devote a great deal of space to explain and justify their choice does not make it acceptable.

People standing up to say "you're wrong," isn't harassment, it's a plea to correct something that is offensive to many many people, jew and gentile and pagan and athiest alike.

This is probably the single most offensive comment I've read on LJ or IJ.

I have jewish friends who have moved on and do not dwell...because unlike so many others I am not going to dwell on the past and harbor ill feelings towards what happened.

You have a lot of fucking nerve. I can't remember the last time I was this enraged. How dare you insinuate that remembering the past and honoring the lost is dwelling and how dare you insinuate there's anything wrong with "harboring ill will" about the systematic extermination of human beings.

Oh gods, there is so much wrong with what you are saying...

I have jewish friends who have moved on and do not dwell, and jewish friends who know that we mean no harm by the game and don't take offense.

They didn't live through it. They will never understand what it was like.

It's been nearly 70 years.we named it after a night in history when something very horrible "began", but the holocaust does not singularly come down to that one night.

For those who lost everything, it DOES come down to that one night.

But I'm also rather open minded and understand the difference between plays on words and fiction.

This is not a play on words. This is using a name of an event that is very real. Not fiction, not made up. REAL.