[info]keieeeye in [info]07refugees

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Firefox news: Livejournal Draws a Line in the Sand.

Includes a hypothetical that is actually making me ponder now - a vampire that has the body of a 14 year old, while being 1400 years old, doing naughty things. Since the objection to underage sexual activity is that their brains aren't developed enough to give informed consent, and theoretically the vampire would be old enough to, presumably... But personally, a 14 year's old body, still creepy. I think to me that's the sort of thing that's okay, but I wouldn't do it myself, and I'd possibly be casting a wary eye on the people who'd jump at the chance (depending on their age, circumstances, etc, obviously). :P

Comments

On that same turn, in the Final Fantasy VII: AC fandom we have the shinentai or the three silver-haired men that are "thought made flesh" from the mighty Sephiroth. They are theoretically 2 years old (having imerged full-grown from the lifestream), however, their minds and bodies are that of mature 16-20-somthing men.

How do we treat them? I mean, if anyone were to mess with them, they would be theoretically messing with a 2 year old.

I guess as long as we ignore that fact(or state it anywhere), we are okay.
How much of maturity is due to physical constraints (brain development) and how much to mental (emotional cognition, etc)? Hmmmmmm!

I suspect LJ is not thinking that hard about it, though. :P
The age of consent in 607 AD was way younger than it is now. A vampire sired in pre-Christian Anglo-Saxon England (or the Eastern Roman Empire, or Sassanid Persia, or similar) would have been of marriageable age at the time. There would have been nothing creepy (well, except for him/her being an undead monster who preys on the living) about his/her activities until very recently. And in most European countries it would be perfectly legal for the vampire (if he/she had fake ID that matched his/her apparent age) to engage in sexual activities anyway.

Why should he/she be held to the standards of a country that is more than a thousand years younger than him/her? As Anya said, "I'm eleven hundred and twenty years old! Just gimme a friggin' beer!"
haha, good point! *awards cookies and beer*
I've had a discussion about that very point with someone before. Henry VII's mother was 12 when she gave birth to him (actually that's probably why she had no other surviving children, there is evidence the birth did damage to her body, but that's irrelevent to the point). At that age she would have been married and running her own household. If she gets turned into a vampire at that age and then we fast forward to now. She's 600ish years old in a 12 year old body.

Normally I don't like to write about anyone under 16 (age of consent where I live) because I class anyone younger than that as a child and while I know they do have sex and I might refer to it in a story I wouldn't feel right portraying it graphically (that's a personal squick though not any kind of moral judgement on people who do write younger), but in the above example I could easily write about it (well except for the fact I don't write het lol) because to me she's not 12 she's 600. I could probably write it if it was set back when she actually was 12 because clearly to be running a household and such she would have to have a level of maturity I wouldn't expect from a modern 12 year old.
*snickering*

Uhmm... well. Besides what [info]speakr2customrs said, to which I very muchly agree... from a vampires standpoint... they couldn't give a lesser damn what anyone's standards/laws/procedures for anything are more often than not. We are talking about a person who is killing for supper here, you think 'obscenity laws' bother them all that much?

Given, it might do good for the poster of said material to point out the fact that subject of drawing/writing has well passed their legal age of consent.
Didn't Anne Rice write that little girl vampire wishing for a woman's body so she could do adult things more? Her body was a lot younger than 14, though nothing explicit was described, I sure got the impression it was implied. And those books are in bookshops everywhere...
Yes.... that would be Claudia and she was preteen when turned. Though in her case, everything was described rather mildly and 'politically correct' if you will.

When it comes to Anne Rice, the very first example that comes to my mind is Armand. Turned at the age of 17 in XVI century, described as very boyish looking... and even better, when he was still a mortal, I believe he was merely 14 if not younger, there is unquestionably sexual relationship with a vampire that was turned in his thirties and was over several hundred years old at that point.

Also, Armand's fledgling(turned in his mid thirties in the 80's)And yes, it is impossible to avoid sexual innuendos because they are actually mentioned, if not described, in canon. Sometimes in great detail.

...it is obvious I am in that fandom, isn't it *shuts up now*
I think I vaguely remember Claudia from when I used to read Anne Rice in high school... (Worked in the library, classes were boring, I read lots of long books for something to do. :P) Was she bordering on slightly mental after so long of being seen as a child, or is that just me making things up?
LMAO

Well... do you describe stabbing one of your makers to almost death and drowning him in a swamp and hiding bodies of random female victims in your bed under the blankets so you could admire woman body until they rot completely as slightly mental? If so... then yes.

Personally I dislike her, she was a little manipulative bitch... though it only makes sense, one of her 'daddies' is a hopeless whiner who is permanently depressed and suicidal and the other one is a pompous egocentric asshole *snort*
Well I wrote vampire porn where the vampire [in her 20s]could transform her body [through magical ritual] into a 14/15 year old and submitted it to LJ Abuse to see if it was okay and they said it was [took them only 2 hours to get back to me even] but that is writing, not art. If my drawing skills were better I do an illustration and stick it on my LJ just to see what they would do... but I still need to work on those skills ;)
From what they seem to be saying if it's part of a larger plot underage sex is ok in fiction, just not in art... Of course that implies I understand what they're saying which would be not entirely true.

Is it me or do they make things more confusing every time they post a 'clarification' ?

(I don't think that word means what you think it does LJ) :D
Not just you, Joe. *allie leans tiredly against Joe*. They always confuzzle Allie. And all those comments! Allie isn't the only one, and not the only one who thinks they are idiots. And you know, Allie doesn't like to call people idiots.

*scritches Allie* And then they comment in the comments threads, often without identifying themselves, and 'clarify' the post, saying things that contradict it sometimes.
Yeah but that story was pure sex and blood drinking no plot at all really, though she wasn't really underage ...of course she really isn't anything since she's a fictional character ;)

Yes they do get more and more confusing every time they post and no I really don't think LJ understands the meaning of that word at all!
Someone submitted a Harry Potter fanfic to test the rules. In it Harry spelled himself to be about 14 to engage in kinky sex with his lover. (That was pretty much the entire plot from what the author said). That was fine. When she took out the fact that it was a spell then it wasn't fine.

Interestingly the abuse team couldn't tell her whether it would be fine without the spell in it without seeing the edited version. If they actually had comprehensive guidelines you'd think they could...

So it looks like they're going with the 'I know it when I see it' definition of obscenity.
wow, just wow. I was tempted to rewrite my story taking the vampire elements (but leaving the spell) to see what they would say (there are other squickworthy issues like the fact that the guy in the story was her step-father in life) but then I realized that I just didn't care enough anymore.
Word. I like my account but I am moving everything over here. If I get banned I get banned. I don't care enough any more. If I get banned I'll set up another free lj account (I have several email addresses, I'll just use one I haven't given them before) to read my comms and stop posting fic and icons over there.
I had a PWP with an actual 15 year old and that was apparently okay too. And yet, pondi gets a permaban for a picture that was supposed to go with a story where Harry is 22. It boggles the mind.
It is so crazy! And it would have been nice if they had come out and said that the rules for art would be different before they started suspending artists :(
Or before they started selling permanent accounts.
Careful. Her latest post clarifies that Harry's age in that pic is indeterminate.
It is in the picture, yes. As I understand it you need to do research to actually find that it's connected with a story and that in the story he's 22. It's possible that the sources I had for that understanding are mistaken or confused, though. :P