Just in case anybody isn't aware, burr86 has put a new post in lj_biz of 'detailed clarifications' of the guidelines from Barak's previous post. I've quoted the post in its entirety behind the cut for anybody who wishes to read it.
ETA - Addendum below cut
____________________
In the comments to Barak's previous post, we've seen many people asking for more detailed clarification regarding the content that would be prohibited under our policy on illegal and harmful activity. We have spent many, many hours discussing these issues with the staff and volunteer team, taking into consideration the points you've raised, and we thought we'd take a minute to explain further.
The categories outlined in Barak's post describe the sorts of material that aren't allowed on LiveJournal -- either because it's prohibited by United States law, or because it's prohibited by our Terms of Service. To reiterate, though, we take a zero-tolerance stance on these sorts of material:
1. Material which violates United States law
Our servers are located in the United States, and so that means that LiveJournal is subject to United States law. This particular item in our policy covers content that inherently violates specific United States criminal statutes. (That is, the material itself is against the law.)
This includes threats of physical harm against the President or other executive officers, child pornography (photos or videos), or other material -- including drawings and text -- that explicitly depicts minors under the age of 18 (real or not) in a graphic sexual context. Or, in other words: Romeo and Juliet is okay. Teens talking about their experiences with sex is okay. Smut focused on a twelve year old is not okay.
These laws aren't unique to LiveJournal or even the Internet -- all media and publications in the United States are subject to them, and so we need to make sure that stuff on LJ doesn't violate these laws.
2. Material which encourages or advocates hate crimes, rape, or child abuse or pedophilia.
Stated differently, any material which indicates that these crimes are good or that they should be committed -- none of that is permitted. Effectively, you can't use LJ to promote these activities.
Again, though, we take things in context. If you're discussing the clinical diagnosis of pedophila, if you're discussing your experiences as a rape survivor, if you're discussing the actions that occurred in the Holocaust -- those are all fine. But content such as "Hitler killed millions of people, and someone should pick up where he left off" or "adults should be allowed to have sex with children" isn't permitted.
3. Material that asks for assistance in committing illegal activities that cause serious physical/economic harm to others.
Or, in other words, you can't use LiveJournal to plan, offer, or instruct others on how to commit serious illegal activities. The goal here isn't to prohibit every single illegal action. Rather, when we say "serious illegal activity", we're referring to activities that cause some sort of physical/economic harm to others.
Some of you were asking about things like speeding, gay marriage, jaywalking, purchase of sexual equipment, underage drinking, etc. None of those would be prohibited by this policy. But you can't post an entry asking for someone to help you beat someone up; you can't post entries asking if anyone knows how you can get around the anti-theft guards at an electronics store. That kind of thing.
We know there are grey areas and borderline cases, but there's no possible way we can make a list of what's acceptable versus what's not acceptable. (I've been reading Abuse complaints for three years, and someone comes up with something I've never seen before at least once a week.) When those cases come up, though, multiple people review them -- including members of our Abuse Prevention Team, LiveJournal and Six Apart staff, and our legal counsel. These sorts of decisions aren't made in a vacuum, nor are they made by just one person.
This should hopefully clarify most of the concerns that were raised regarding the specifics of our policies. As always, we'll be reading the comments here, but we can't guarantee that someone will be able to respond to every one.
ETA - 'CLARIFICATION: Not all content describing underage sexuality is in violation of our policies (or of United States law). Rather, using LJ to distrubute "obscene" content (as defined by the Miller Test) is illegal. If it qualifies as obscene, and if it involves minors (people under the age of 18), then it's not allowed.'
ETA2 - Harry Potter spoilers for book 7 have been posted in the comments on page 7. There's a comment just before them pointing it out, but now people have been warned in case you (like myself) don't want to be spoiled for the book. It looks like a list, so if you want to quickly go past it you might be able to.
ETA 3 - A bit late, sorry. There's now another post up in lj_biz, some sort of 'clarifying the clarifications' thing.
ETA - Addendum below cut
____________________
In the comments to Barak's previous post, we've seen many people asking for more detailed clarification regarding the content that would be prohibited under our policy on illegal and harmful activity. We have spent many, many hours discussing these issues with the staff and volunteer team, taking into consideration the points you've raised, and we thought we'd take a minute to explain further.
The categories outlined in Barak's post describe the sorts of material that aren't allowed on LiveJournal -- either because it's prohibited by United States law, or because it's prohibited by our Terms of Service. To reiterate, though, we take a zero-tolerance stance on these sorts of material:
1. Material which violates United States law
Our servers are located in the United States, and so that means that LiveJournal is subject to United States law. This particular item in our policy covers content that inherently violates specific United States criminal statutes. (That is, the material itself is against the law.)
This includes threats of physical harm against the President or other executive officers, child pornography (photos or videos), or other material -- including drawings and text -- that explicitly depicts minors under the age of 18 (real or not) in a graphic sexual context. Or, in other words: Romeo and Juliet is okay. Teens talking about their experiences with sex is okay. Smut focused on a twelve year old is not okay.
These laws aren't unique to LiveJournal or even the Internet -- all media and publications in the United States are subject to them, and so we need to make sure that stuff on LJ doesn't violate these laws.
2. Material which encourages or advocates hate crimes, rape, or child abuse or pedophilia.
Stated differently, any material which indicates that these crimes are good or that they should be committed -- none of that is permitted. Effectively, you can't use LJ to promote these activities.
Again, though, we take things in context. If you're discussing the clinical diagnosis of pedophila, if you're discussing your experiences as a rape survivor, if you're discussing the actions that occurred in the Holocaust -- those are all fine. But content such as "Hitler killed millions of people, and someone should pick up where he left off" or "adults should be allowed to have sex with children" isn't permitted.
3. Material that asks for assistance in committing illegal activities that cause serious physical/economic harm to others.
Or, in other words, you can't use LiveJournal to plan, offer, or instruct others on how to commit serious illegal activities. The goal here isn't to prohibit every single illegal action. Rather, when we say "serious illegal activity", we're referring to activities that cause some sort of physical/economic harm to others.
Some of you were asking about things like speeding, gay marriage, jaywalking, purchase of sexual equipment, underage drinking, etc. None of those would be prohibited by this policy. But you can't post an entry asking for someone to help you beat someone up; you can't post entries asking if anyone knows how you can get around the anti-theft guards at an electronics store. That kind of thing.
We know there are grey areas and borderline cases, but there's no possible way we can make a list of what's acceptable versus what's not acceptable. (I've been reading Abuse complaints for three years, and someone comes up with something I've never seen before at least once a week.) When those cases come up, though, multiple people review them -- including members of our Abuse Prevention Team, LiveJournal and Six Apart staff, and our legal counsel. These sorts of decisions aren't made in a vacuum, nor are they made by just one person.
This should hopefully clarify most of the concerns that were raised regarding the specifics of our policies. As always, we'll be reading the comments here, but we can't guarantee that someone will be able to respond to every one.
ETA - 'CLARIFICATION: Not all content describing underage sexuality is in violation of our policies (or of United States law). Rather, using LJ to distrubute "obscene" content (as defined by the Miller Test) is illegal. If it qualifies as obscene, and if it involves minors (people under the age of 18), then it's not allowed.'
ETA2 - Harry Potter spoilers for book 7 have been posted in the comments on page 7. There's a comment just before them pointing it out, but now people have been warned in case you (like myself) don't want to be spoiled for the book. It looks like a list, so if you want to quickly go past it you might be able to.
ETA 3 - A bit late, sorry. There's now another post up in lj_biz, some sort of 'clarifying the clarifications' thing.
jaybee65
spacelogic
jaybee65
emilie_burns
elfwreck
fanfic_lover
I think I'm torn somewhere between laughing, yelling and just rolling my eyes...
Oh, and just typing this I overheard an ad on TV saying 'Last time I checked, sex was legal'. Oh, irony XD
jaybee65
I'm opting for all three!
aaronlisa
jaybee65
aaronlisa
toimhseachan
And if you scroll through the comments you'll see that Burr86 says that it's obscenity laws rather than pornography (or peadophilia laws) that's covering that one, but obscene material between two adults is okay.
So again with the "It's okay to break some laws, just not the laws we don't want you to break." and rather than saying this is the material we don;t want on our site they're trying to hide behind laws thar they're only enforcing certain aspects of and aren't clearly defined anyway.
elistaire
It does seem that some things are not even open for discussion.
ardath_rekha
ingrid
Oh, wait, I KNOW WHY!
(PST: squeaky, it's time to raise your prices, dude!)
jarkai
stewardess
stewardess
http://community.livejournal.com/whydoe
Fandom could group-poop on Berkowitz's head and 6A still wouldn't notice we existed.
rabbitboy
Does nobody stand up for principle anymore? Is it really the case people will sit there and stare dumbly into space while these people shamelessly say one thing then turn around and do something else, and just... do nothing?
stewardess
These are the folks calling for us to police ourselves [because if we just stopped writing that naughty porn, none of this would have happened!] and urging us to "support" LJ instead of knocking it.
Eventually, I hope, they will realize that we are fandom, and Six Apart is merely a business. At the moment, they aren't seeing that.
As I've said elsewhere [boringly, with much repetition :D], fandom has moved many, many times, and it can move again.
InsaneJournal ho!
stewardess
rabbitboy
I tend to be a bit cynical and bitter in these matters, which I should probably ease up on.
aaronlisa
mythdefied
emilie_burns
mythdefied
ex_kenobi534
mythdefied
aristoboule
j_crew_guy
aristoboule
Shrek called himself Juliet, and Romeo is simply a conglomeration of pirates! *stealthily uses esoteric LJ-logic!* And they had Miller beer. ;D
ex_kenobi534
aristoboule
randacello
aristoboule
And you know what? LJ was rife with ads for Knocked Up no less!
randacello
aristoboule
randacello
aristoboule
randacello
randacello
PS
aristoboule
Re: PS
randacello
Re: PS
rabbitboy
All they've done with this post is to further muddy the waters. At least when Barak posted the last time he had some fairly clear cut (though still in conflict with their supposed concern for freedom of expression) rules that they supposedly go by. The fact that he said they've had these policies "for years" was what demonstrated they were full of shit.
Now here they are trying to define what a "serious illegal activity" is and presumably what a "not serious illegal activity" is without actually defining it. Obviously so they can then change that definition later when either a) their advertisers scream and threaten them, b) outside whack-jobs like WfI scream and threaten them, or c) a significant enough group of users that they can't simply tell to piss-off-and-die gets up and makes a gigantic stink.
And really it doesn't matter anymore. Everyone who was serious about telling Livejournal to go fuck themselves have now done that and moved on to places like Insanejournal. Everyone who hasn't done that is either blissfully ignorant of what's gone on, apathetic about what's gone on, or they have too much vested interest in their communities and friends to simply pick up and move on to a healthier journaling environment.
They've already exposed themselves for the hypocrites they are, and without some kind of major shakedown and reversal, nobody's buying any of this lip service. I honestly don't know how they could possibly dig themselves out of this hole frankly, but it's clear from the majority reaction on LJ that they don't have to. The majority seem quite content with Six Apart being gigantic untrustworthy hypocrites, and continue to give them money to pay their salaries.
"Come to Livejournal! We're hypocrites, but we still have the most users is spite of it!"
stewardess
suckerspeople who just bought permanent accounts. So I don't think it is true that "Everyone who was serious about telling Livejournal to go fuck themselves have now done that and moved on to places like Insanejournal."Also, folks in the Harry Potter fandom who were fence sitting are now disturbed. Their full reaction will not hit LJ until next week, after they've read HP:DH and lost their fear of encountering spoilers online. HP fanfiction is the most likely to come under scrutiny for "underage" porn, as we've already seen with the deletion of pornish_pixies, so the HP fandom is going to react strongly to this.
I've seen very angry comments directed at 6A from people who were telling me I was Chicken Little back in early June. I believe we will see some new defections.
lastscorpion
LOL! They might even get some credit for being honest, for a change!
natala
kitsune_wolf