[info]fanfic_lover in [info]07refugees

Just in case anybody isn't aware, burr86 has put a new post in lj_biz of 'detailed clarifications' of the guidelines from Barak's previous post. I've quoted the post in its entirety behind the cut for anybody who wishes to read it.

ETA - Addendum below cut


____________________

In the comments to Barak's previous post, we've seen many people asking for more detailed clarification regarding the content that would be prohibited under our policy on illegal and harmful activity. We have spent many, many hours discussing these issues with the staff and volunteer team, taking into consideration the points you've raised, and we thought we'd take a minute to explain further.

The categories outlined in Barak's post describe the sorts of material that aren't allowed on LiveJournal -- either because it's prohibited by United States law, or because it's prohibited by our Terms of Service. To reiterate, though, we take a zero-tolerance stance on these sorts of material:

1. Material which violates United States law

Our servers are located in the United States, and so that means that LiveJournal is subject to United States law. This particular item in our policy covers content that inherently violates specific United States criminal statutes. (That is, the material itself is against the law.)

This includes threats of physical harm against the President or other executive officers, child pornography (photos or videos), or other material -- including drawings and text -- that explicitly depicts minors under the age of 18 (real or not) in a graphic sexual context. Or, in other words: Romeo and Juliet is okay. Teens talking about their experiences with sex is okay. Smut focused on a twelve year old is not okay.

These laws aren't unique to LiveJournal or even the Internet -- all media and publications in the United States are subject to them, and so we need to make sure that stuff on LJ doesn't violate these laws.


2. Material which encourages or advocates hate crimes, rape, or child abuse or pedophilia.

Stated differently, any material which indicates that these crimes are good or that they should be committed -- none of that is permitted. Effectively, you can't use LJ to promote these activities.

Again, though, we take things in context. If you're discussing the clinical diagnosis of pedophila, if you're discussing your experiences as a rape survivor, if you're discussing the actions that occurred in the Holocaust -- those are all fine. But content such as "Hitler killed millions of people, and someone should pick up where he left off" or "adults should be allowed to have sex with children" isn't permitted.


3. Material that asks for assistance in committing illegal activities that cause serious physical/economic harm to others.

Or, in other words, you can't use LiveJournal to plan, offer, or instruct others on how to commit serious illegal activities. The goal here isn't to prohibit every single illegal action. Rather, when we say "serious illegal activity", we're referring to activities that cause some sort of physical/economic harm to others.

Some of you were asking about things like speeding, gay marriage, jaywalking, purchase of sexual equipment, underage drinking, etc. None of those would be prohibited by this policy. But you can't post an entry asking for someone to help you beat someone up; you can't post entries asking if anyone knows how you can get around the anti-theft guards at an electronics store. That kind of thing.


We know there are grey areas and borderline cases, but there's no possible way we can make a list of what's acceptable versus what's not acceptable. (I've been reading Abuse complaints for three years, and someone comes up with something I've never seen before at least once a week.) When those cases come up, though, multiple people review them -- including members of our Abuse Prevention Team, LiveJournal and Six Apart staff, and our legal counsel. These sorts of decisions aren't made in a vacuum, nor are they made by just one person.

This should hopefully clarify most of the concerns that were raised regarding the specifics of our policies. As always, we'll be reading the comments here, but we can't guarantee that someone will be able to respond to every one.

ETA - 'CLARIFICATION: Not all content describing underage sexuality is in violation of our policies (or of United States law). Rather, using LJ to distrubute "obscene" content (as defined by the Miller Test) is illegal. If it qualifies as obscene, and if it involves minors (people under the age of 18), then it's not allowed.'

ETA2 - Harry Potter spoilers for book 7 have been posted in the comments on page 7. There's a comment just before them pointing it out, but now people have been warned in case you (like myself) don't want to be spoiled for the book. It looks like a list, so if you want to quickly go past it you might be able to.

ETA 3 - A bit late, sorry. There's now another post up in lj_biz, some sort of 'clarifying the clarifications' thing.
Tags:

Comments

Does anyone else find it hilarious that they've chosen to post this less than 36 hours before HP fandom was *already scheduled* to go beserk?
Me! If they actually follow up with enforcement, I'm predicting that the Livejournal servers will melt. Actually tempted to report "illegal" communities to see if they've got the guts to practice what they preach, but I'm refraining because that wouldn't be nice.
Oooh, no, that wouldn't be. Besides, I think the servers will be busy as it is.
::And Yuuo steals the computer again, since hers is on the fritz!:: Bah, who cares about being nice? :D It's cream on the coffee if you report someone who's a wanky asshat who deserves it. :Db ::enables::
Report the anti-gay hatespeech communities and journals.
Oh, totally. I mean, I'm a huge lurker in HP Fandom and everybody I know in said fandom is already insane, never mind when they hear about this.

I think I'm torn somewhere between laughing, yelling and just rolling my eyes...

Oh, and just typing this I overheard an ad on TV saying 'Last time I checked, sex was legal'. Oh, irony XD
think I'm torn somewhere between laughing, yelling and just rolling my eyes...

I'm opting for all three!
Hmmm... could there be a connection since one of the first journals they deleted was a HP community?
I've seen several people suggest that they timed the announcement deliberately because they figured many fen would be offline hiding from spoilers. We'll never know, of course, but it makes some sense!
With LJ it's hard to say what their motivations are as of late.
Smut focused on a twelve year old is not okay.

And if you scroll through the comments you'll see that Burr86 says that it's obscenity laws rather than pornography (or peadophilia laws) that's covering that one, but obscene material between two adults is okay.

So again with the "It's okay to break some laws, just not the laws we don't want you to break." and rather than saying this is the material we don;t want on our site they're trying to hide behind laws thar they're only enforcing certain aspects of and aren't clearly defined anyway.
It also appears that they won't allow you to argue that certain laws should be changed either and to encourage your friends to write their senators, get petitions going, etc. because that might be something that encourages a (what would now be, but might not be if the letter writing campaign is successful) a crime of a particular sort. They listed some heinous ones I don't think any sane person wants to change, but what is to keep them from enlarging that list to other things that rational people may actually want changed?

It does seem that some things are not even open for discussion.
And again, I find myself so glad I moved here.
Why can't he just come out and say "we plan on appeasing various factions that support nebulous, random moral beliefs, so just be prepared to get deleted on a whim, 'tay?

Oh, wait, I KNOW WHY!

(PST: [info]squeaky, it's time to raise your prices, dude!)
Ingrid, what would we SW-writers have done if Anakin wasn't 19 in EP II? D: D: D:
This makes my head explode.
In light of 6A going on another journal binge/purge yesterday, I am guessing some legal exec got back from vacation this week, and the timing has nothing to do with Harry Potter.

http://community.livejournal.com/whydoesljcensor/40394.html

Fandom could group-poop on Berkowitz's head and 6A still wouldn't notice we existed.
What disgusts me is the total sheep-like disinterest that the majority of LJ land is taking in this. "Baaaa they'll only go get the baaaaaad people, not meeeeee... baaaa...."

Does nobody stand up for principle anymore? Is it really the case people will sit there and stare dumbly into space while these people shamelessly say one thing then turn around and do something else, and just... do nothing?
I'm cutting LJers some slack, because I think many folks are in denial. The idea of moving to a new platform terrifies them; they fear losing their community.

These are the folks calling for us to police ourselves [because if we just stopped writing that naughty porn, none of this would have happened!] and urging us to "support" LJ instead of knocking it.

Eventually, I hope, they will realize that we are fandom, and Six Apart is merely a business. At the moment, they aren't seeing that.

As I've said elsewhere [boringly, with much repetition :D], fandom has moved many, many times, and it can move again.

InsaneJournal ho!

I bring you goodish news. In the last two days, at least ten people on my flist have gotten insanejournals. So it appears this latest 6A idiocy has led to action.
That's good to hear.

I tend to be a bit cynical and bitter in these matters, which I should probably ease up on.
So it's a bit less vague but still vague in some areas. And the whole "we know they are grey areas and borderline cases..." reaks of them trying to cover their asses if they have another group like WFI trying to censor people and communities by threatening to go to SA/LJ's advertisers.
It's like a herald going before the apocalypse; LJ is showing us the opening of the seventh seal of wank before HP7 is unleashed upon the world.
... XD I love you so hard for this comment. XD
I, occasionally, have my moments. ;)
Thou art my heart.
*G*
I wonder how they would interpret this icon...
Well, were the pirates and Shrek adults or not? >:D
XD!!!

Shrek called himself Juliet, and Romeo is simply a conglomeration of pirates! *stealthily uses esoteric LJ-logic!* And they had Miller beer. ;D
Sorry, sorry--it has no redeeming value, and is thus smut meant for 12 year olds. Er, something.
D:!!!
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
;D

And you know what? LJ was rife with ads for Knocked Up no less!
Now that you mention it, yes, it was! I bet that would skew 6A's interpretation of that icon. :D
Clearly, I must find a way to use it on their crazy post of lies!
*cackle* Do it! Do it!
Okay, I am horrible and did it!!!
You rawk!!!!

PS

I just peeked at your IJ and was intrigued. Do you mind if I friend you?

Re: PS

Not at all! And friended right back!

Re: PS

:D Welcome!
I don't know why they're even bothering anymore. They ought to just come out and say, "We're going to delete whatever we think threatens our revenue stream, and you fandom wanks can just piss off."

All they've done with this post is to further muddy the waters. At least when Barak posted the last time he had some fairly clear cut (though still in conflict with their supposed concern for freedom of expression) rules that they supposedly go by. The fact that he said they've had these policies "for years" was what demonstrated they were full of shit.

Now here they are trying to define what a "serious illegal activity" is and presumably what a "not serious illegal activity" is without actually defining it. Obviously so they can then change that definition later when either a) their advertisers scream and threaten them, b) outside whack-jobs like WfI scream and threaten them, or c) a significant enough group of users that they can't simply tell to piss-off-and-die gets up and makes a gigantic stink.

And really it doesn't matter anymore. Everyone who was serious about telling Livejournal to go fuck themselves have now done that and moved on to places like Insanejournal. Everyone who hasn't done that is either blissfully ignorant of what's gone on, apathetic about what's gone on, or they have too much vested interest in their communities and friends to simply pick up and move on to a healthier journaling environment.

They've already exposed themselves for the hypocrites they are, and without some kind of major shakedown and reversal, nobody's buying any of this lip service. I honestly don't know how they could possibly dig themselves out of this hole frankly, but it's clear from the majority reaction on LJ that they don't have to. The majority seem quite content with Six Apart being gigantic untrustworthy hypocrites, and continue to give them money to pay their salaries.

"Come to Livejournal! We're hypocrites, but we still have the most users is spite of it!"
With this announcement, 6A has managed to piss off a new group: the suckers people who just bought permanent accounts. So I don't think it is true that "Everyone who was serious about telling Livejournal to go fuck themselves have now done that and moved on to places like Insanejournal."

Also, folks in the Harry Potter fandom who were fence sitting are now disturbed. Their full reaction will not hit LJ until next week, after they've read HP:DH and lost their fear of encountering spoilers online. HP fanfiction is the most likely to come under scrutiny for "underage" porn, as we've already seen with the deletion of pornish_pixies, so the HP fandom is going to react strongly to this.

I've seen very angry comments directed at 6A from people who were telling me I was Chicken Little back in early June. I believe we will see some new defections.
They ought to just come out and say, "We're going to delete whatever we think threatens our revenue stream, and you fandom wanks can just piss off."

LOL! They might even get some credit for being honest, for a change!
Since they know what the problem is, could they just stop being so damn vague? That'd be great. They know a majority of the people asking for clarification are fen. You know what would help? Citing examples, for one. A clear "This isn't allowed, this is." Not, "This probably isn't allowed, but we're not going to tell you until we're deleteing it" that they're doing now. And I bet they'll have to go back on this when they do start deleting journals and communities. If it's fiction based off other fiction, they aren't real and if it isn't allowed, it would be great if LJ would just say it instead of swinging back and forth.
Damn it they're being vage incase someone finds loopholes why don't they just say, look this isn't allowed, but we're not saying that everything else is allowed because someone will always come up with something we've never heard of before, but that's a list you can work with and we'll add to it when and as we need to, just so you know.