[info]prozacnation in [info]07refugees

LiveJournal Abuse Really Takes the Cake

This is cross-posted from my journal here.

I posted this to LJ Abuse from a community I belong to. It's illegal in New York State to sell fireworks and I thought it would be illegal on LJ to do that do.

http://community.livejournal.com/buffalo_dorks/2418977.html

FIREWORKS FOR SALE!

FIREWORKS!

I have tons of them that I bought in PA a few months ago. I'm looking to sell them. So, if you're interested in buying them, get at me! It'll save you all that gas money from driving to PA for them. Also, they are NOT silly little bottle rockets and such. I'm talking real fourth of July boomcrackers. I have a car, so if you don't drive and really want them, I'm willing to drive them to you -- for a small gas fee of course.

You can just drop me a comment here and we'll discuss prices, or if you prefer privacy e-mail me at jodiejustice@xxxxxxxxxx.com. I can take pictures of the fireworks for you as well.


So this is what I wrote:

Prozacnation (********@grilled-cheese.org)
Account type: Plus Account
LiveJournal: username: [info]prozacnation
style: (S2) core: public, i18n: none, i18nc: none, layout: public, theme: public, user: custom,
email validated?yes
cluster: Soybean; data version : 7
scheme: dystopia; language: en_LJ
underage? no
Support category: Abuse
Time posted: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 03:55:54 GMT (3 days ago)
Status: answered (still needs help)
Summary: +(03) unk poss IA in buffalo_dorks [PE]

This is a private request. It is not publicly visible.

Original Request:
This is illegal in New York State:
http://community.livejournal.com/buffalo_dorks/2418977.html

*
Diagnostics: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9) Gecko/2008052906 Firefox/3.0


===========================
Their reply



Answer (#3432474)
Posted: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 23:12:55 GMT (4 hours ago)

Dear LiveJournal user prozacnation!

Thank you for your report. Unfortunately, the entry to which you link is protected. The Abuse Prevention Team is unable to view protected entries; this ability is limited to select LiveJournal employees and is only used in the event of grievous violations of United States law or LiveJournal's Terms of Service. Without evidence that the entry contains such material, we will be unable to assist you.

Regards,
Pauline
LiveJournal Abuse Prevention Team

===========================
WHAT?! You don't have the VIEWALL option for ABUSE? When we did Abuse for GJ the abuse team had the VIEWALL option so we could see illegal activities. People get suspended for listing LOLITA in their interests but it's okay to sell fireworks?????

Oh yeah, I was pissed and of course I needed MORE HELP from their half assed abuse department.

Comment (#3432616)
Posted: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 02:48:40 GMT (36 minutes ago)

For the Abuse Team on Greatestjournal, all members had the VIEWALL option to see the protected entries.

Buffalo is located in new York and in NEW YORK this is illegal.

http://www.dos.state.ny.us/fire/firewww.html

If you would like, I can contact the Office of Fire Prevention and Control and they can serve you with a subpoena to open the locked entry that you cannot see located on Live Journal.

From the Buffalo News about the confiscation of illegal fireworks in the area:
http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/22451964.html

http://community.livejournal.com/buffalo_dorks/2418977.html?viewall

Here is the entry that you cannot see:

Jodie ([info]herljusername) wrote in [info]buffalo_dorks,
@ 2008-07-02 20:10:00

/ \

Previous Entry Add to memories! Edit Tags Track This Next Entry

\ /
Current mood: calm

FIREWORKS FOR SALE!
FIREWORKS!


I have tons of them that I bought in PA a few months ago. I'm looking to sell them. So, if you're interested in buying them, get at me! It'll save you all that gas money from driving to PA for them. Also, they are NOT silly little bottle rockets and such. I'm talking real fourth of July boomcrackers. I have a car, so if you don't drive and really want them, I'm willing to drive them to you -- for a small gas fee of course.

You can just drop me a comment here and we'll discuss prices, or if you prefer privacy e-mail me at jodiejustice@xxxxxxxxxx.com. I can take pictures of the fireworks for you as well.

===================================================

It is interesting that people were suspended for listing certain items in their userinfo or posting something protected in their personal journal that was "fanfic". YET you are not able to see someone selling fireworks in a protected entry in a community that is located in a state that considers this ILLEGAL. This is more illegal than putting "lolita" as an interest on the userinfo page.

This is yet again why I would not renew my account on here giving LJ the money for my yearly fees and extra userpics.

Thanks again for not having the VIEWALL option. Someone on the Abuse Team should have it as you are investigating Abuse.


I'm still waiting for the response to the ticket after I added to it.

Posted on Jul. 8th, 2008 at 11:58 pm | | Leave a comment | Add to Memories | Tell a Friend

Comments

[info]spare_change

Um. Regardless of how much I agree with you about the fireworks, I don't understand why you would want the Abuse Team -- a group of volunteers with little oversight and ZERO accountability -- to have access to your protected entries. I trust them so little as it is ... the last thing I want is for them to be able to read privatized posts. Especially given all the scandal and controversy around the LJ elected representative, who is a member of the Abuse Team. The possibility of retaliation against those who protest her election is just too high.
Posted on Jul. 8th, 2008 11:24 pm (UTC) | | Thread | Reply

[info]prozacnation

They have access and probably use it when they shouldn't.

If you remember some were suspended for what was in their journal's locked entries and not what was posted publicly.

I'm also friends with someone who is harassed by the LJ Abuse team, former LJ Support member on LJ so I'm aware of what they can do.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 09:39 am (UTC) | | Parent | Thread | Reply

[info]spare_change

So then what is your point? They have ViewAll and they're not using it? This seems painfully inconsistent and as if you're just trying to stir up shit for the sake of it.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 10:48 am (UTC) | | Parent | Thread | Reply

[info]prozacnation

Wow. Stop reading into it.

I made a report.

The entry was locked.

I assumed they could read it as I did at GJ on the Abuse Team.

They responded that they can't.

I counter responded that there is a function that shows they can and please take a second look at it.

End of story.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 10:58 am (UTC) | | Parent | Reply

[info]vl_redreign

You go!!!! Please post the response if/when you get it. That was a lovely smackdown.
Posted on Jul. 8th, 2008 11:24 pm (UTC) | | Reply

[info]laerwen

it's very simple.

Policing these things requires actual effort. "Protecting the children" requires a bullshit flag system. Do you think they are going to give a toss? I see what you're doing... and I really don't think you're going to get the response you're looking for. They're more concerned about what's illegal in California, which is where LJ's servers are. *shrug*
Posted on Jul. 8th, 2008 11:45 pm (UTC) | | Thread | Reply

[info]prozacnation

Re: it's very simple.

I know. I wanted to test them and this was my opportunity.

I just hate them with a passion. O.o
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 10:03 am (UTC) | | Parent | Reply

[info]teh_kittykat

Maybe I'm missing something, but why didn't you go to the community's mod first about this? Mods are supposed to be the first line of defense against shenanigans like this, and they have the power to delete the offending post and ban the user if he/she/it keeps advocating illegal activities.

I agree with other posters that I wouldn't want the average LJ abuse staff member being able to see protected entries. Just because a person managed to wrangle a position on the abuse team doesn't mean they're good at the job or would be fair in enacting policy... and we all know what sort of sucktastic job the average paid LJ employee does, I wouldn't want to imagine some of the volunteers who manage to politick their way in. The old screenshots or it didn't happen rule would suffice for abuse reporting without volunteers needing access to all entries.
Posted on Jul. 8th, 2008 11:46 pm (UTC) | | Thread | Reply

[info]prozacnation

The reason: I'm all for testing the Abuse team and got tired of reading on my flist from previous abuse team workers/support members (one in particular who is being harassed for anything she writes in public and private entries) on how they cannot do their job or refuse to do it.

This was my test - I could care less about the community, the mod or the chick who is breaking the law.

I behaved like a typical internet customer. I threw around the law. I threw around reporting them for not taking action.

Acting through words.

I like LJ Drama since that is all it is over there. :)

I don't use that journal for anything - I use my web page journal. If they suspend me for demanding a decent answer, then so be it.

In addition, When I'm referring my customers at a national ISP I work for (currently I work in the abuse department there) to make a report to LJ when they have a problem in addition to providing the information to us, I would like to see them actually do their jobs besides finding child porn in fanfic.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 09:48 am (UTC) | | Parent | Reply

[info]jackandahat

So you'd rather random complete strangers on the LJ team have complete access to everything you post, rather than risk someone getting away with something they didn't ought to be up to?

Given you referenced it, I'm sure that you remember all the bannings for things that weren't wrong... why would you want these people to have more ammo against you?
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 03:00 am (UTC) | | Thread | Reply

[info]prozacnation

They do have access to that function. That's my point.

Some people were suspended for what was in their LOCKED journal and not what was contained in the interests in the userinfo.

You cannot tell me that when you make a ticket to LJ Abuse, they don't check your journal in addition to checking what you are complaining about.

Their line is a line of Bullshit. That was my point of making the complaint.

If someone could see the logs of the viewall function I will guarantee that someone checked MY journal's locked entries in addition to using this pre-fab that they don't have that function.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 09:36 am (UTC) | | Parent | Reply

[info]stacia

They say they don't have access to locked entries, but I believe some of them do. When I got into a scuffle with Abuse, the LJ Abuse volunteer I dealt with was able to see the content of one of my f-locked posts. Others have said they can see (via LJ Toys) people hit their private entries directly, and it's assumed those are Abuse members/LJ employees as well. Who else would know the exact link to a private entry?

All of this is speculation, of course, I have no actual proof that Abuse has VIEWALL or any similar command.

Keep in mind that you're asking Abuse volunteers to make legal decisions on what's legal and what isn't. I wouldn't trust any LJ Abuse volunteer to determine the difference between cheese and linoleum, let alone interpret New York State law.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 03:23 am (UTC) | | Thread | Reply

[info]raaven

Given that the abuse team has clearly accessed locked posts in the past, whether the individual who responded has the access or not is moot.

If it is against the TOS to make posts advocating breaking laws (I believe it is), then the individual without access should kick the problem up to someone who does have it, and who *can* make decisions on legal issues, rather than trying to close the ticket.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 01:30 pm (UTC) | | Parent | Thread | Reply

[info]scorpio

i totally agree with you here. "not having access to the post" has never stopped them from kicking it up to someone higher in the past. it's total bullshit. i realize they are volunteers, but then why volunteer for a certain job with certain criteria if you're NOT GOING TO DO IT. lame...
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 01:56 pm (UTC) | | Parent | Thread | Reply

[info]raaven

SO lame. So very sad.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 05:21 pm (UTC) | | Parent | Reply

[info]prozacnation

According to them, this doesn't warrant kicking this up.

Now they state it's a "privacy" issue instead of "We don't have the privs.

Dear LiveJournal user prozacnation!

Thank you for your feedback with regards to the access to privileges. LiveJournal values the privacy of our users, and therefore only selected employees have the ability to view non-public entries. The Abuse Prevention Team members can request to "viewall" entries, if in our opinion there is evidence of severe violations of the U.S. law or the Terms of Service. We do not consider sale of fireworks in New York severe enough to violate the user's privacy in this case.

You are welcome to obtain a valid subpoena, and we will provide you with the address where you can send it at that time, and gladly take any appropriate measures.

Regards,
Pauline
LiveJournal Abuse Prevention Team
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 09:43 pm (UTC) | | Parent | Thread | Reply

[info]danceonavolcano

Cute. They didn't seem to value our privacy before...
Posted on Jul. 10th, 2008 11:51 am (UTC) | | Parent | Reply

[info]stacia

I'm not sure anyone at LJ is capable to make decisions about legal issues. The thing is, they still DO make these decisions, but in an obviously random fashion. They wimp out and give the "I can't see the post" excuse sometimes, and other times when it suits them they don't.

I got the same excuse when people posted a 13-year-old girl's private info with instructions on how to harass her and her parents. You'd THINK they'd go get a supervisor in that instance, but they don't. They never do.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 04:09 pm (UTC) | | Parent | Thread | Reply

[info]raaven

That's so very sad.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 05:19 pm (UTC) | | Parent | Reply

[info]techno_goddess

Someone viewed my (suspended) LJ account using the "viewall" feature shortly after it was suspended (it showed up on LJtoys, and I think that's what [info]stacia is referring to). Not that it made any difference, since they had already decided to suspend me based on false evidence. I assume some pervert just wanted to see what the lesbo was writing about.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 06:27 am (UTC) | | Thread | Reply

[info]prozacnation

That's what I'm talking about.

I had it happen to me on GJ when I wasn't on the Abuse/Support team.

MayContain (her GJ name and LJ name) was reading my private entries every day. For what, I have no idea as I wasn't writing anything about the abuse team. I guess she was hoping I was so she could suspend me.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 10:01 am (UTC) | | Parent | Thread | Reply

[info]scorpio

what a bitch...
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 01:57 pm (UTC) | | Parent | Reply

[info]raaven

Well done. I hope you'll post the response, if they bother to send you one.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 01:34 pm (UTC) | | Reply

[info]scorpio

i see your post is getting a lot of flack, but i commend you on this. it's proof that LJ abuse is total bullshit.
Posted on Jul. 9th, 2008 01:58 pm (UTC) | | Reply

[info]danceonavolcano

"LiveJournal: Because it's not every day your leaders have their heads jammed in their own assholes! Wait..."

This makes me want to put these people in the corner and swat them on the back of the hand. Such is the only appropriate punishment for such puerile shitferbrains/es. Keep in mind: They don't care about the law. They don't care about kids. They just want money. Another corporate whore in the Capitalist gangbang, as someone (I think Bill Hicks? Probably.) once said.
Posted on Jul. 10th, 2008 11:57 am (UTC) | | Reply