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Hank McCoy ([info]starsandgarters) wrote in [info]incompletedata,
@ 2017-07-14 14:27:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:battlestar galactica: laura roslin, dc: supergirl: alex danvers, hunger games: johanna mason, izombie: liv moore, kitty norville: kitty norville, marvel: (fox/x-men): wade wilson, marvel: avengers academy: janet van dyne, marvel: avengers academy: maria hill, marvel: comics: betsy braddock, marvel: comics: bruce banner, marvel: comics: charles xavier, marvel: comics: emma frost, marvel: comics: hank mccoy, marvel: comics: hope summers, marvel: comics: jean grey, marvel: comics: jennifer walters, marvel: comics: kobik, marvel: comics: logan, marvel: comics: max eisenhardt, marvel: comics: melissa gold, marvel: comics: natalia romanova, marvel: comics: nathan summers, marvel: comics: rogue, marvel: comics: sharon carter, marvel: comics: steve rogers (hydra), marvel: comics: tony stark, marvel: comics: victor von doom, marvel: comics: viv vision, marvel: mcu: clint barton, marvel: mcu: helmut zemo, marvel: mcu: mantis, marvel: mcu: natasha romanoff, marvel: mcu: sam wilson, marvel: mcu: wanda maximoff, marvel: xmen tas: rogue, orphan black: cosima niehaus, star wars: canon: ahsoka tano, star wars: canon: armitage hux, star wars: canon: bail organa, star wars: canon: jedikiller, star wars: canon: leia organa, star wars: canon: mon mothma, star wars: canon: phasma, supernatural: jo harvelle, the expanse: amos burton, the expanse: james holden, the young pope: andrew dussolier, the young pope: lenny belardo, wittgenstein: hotel

People of the Wittgenstein,

Hopefully many of you may remember the post that Sharon Carter (the elder) made in the aftermath of the Circus riot about our civic responsibilities. In the two weeks since we have been back at the compound, a small group of us have been stationed in the library, working on drafting a document assuring and defining our rights as citizens (not merely specimens) of this Wittgenstein collective.

We affirm, in brief: a right to assembly and self governance, a right to freedom from violence, discrimination or harassment, a right to freedom of speech, a right to property, and a right to freedom from degrading conditions, and an obligation to assuring a minimum standard of care and safety for all who are brought here. We maintain the sanctity of life for all specimens as our highest primary objective.

We propose a representative democracy comprised of a federation of "Districts" comprised of at least five people. This allows everyone's primary points of contact to be largely those with whom they would interact in any case, however, it also creates both a Wittgenstein Council and Jury comprised of elected representatives from each District which can address concerns that face the entire group, see to impartial, empathetic handling of specimen-on-specimen crime.

Finally, while at present we have the capacity to negotiate only amongst ourselves, it is our hope that success in this endeavor may give us some collective bargaining power with our scientists.

In any case, we have drafted a preliminary Constitution based on a variety of national Constitutions as well as drawing heavily from Prisoners' Rights theory, but it is only a preliminary document. We would like to open this up to all specimens for comment, suggestion, and revision in the interest of fairness and to capitalize on the assembled collective political expertise here.

Yours sincerely
Hank McCoy
Sharon Carter
Steve Rogers
Charles Xavier



Full text


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[info]rocinante
2017-07-14 07:14 pm UTC (link)
Well, this is the first I'm hearing of it since Sharon's post and, I have to admit, I'm a bit taken aback at how cavalier the attitude is toward the fact that no one other than mutants and Avengers seems to have been consulted.

Which brings me to my next concern. What's to stop you from creating a block in the Council and Jury and simply ruling without caring about those of us who aren't part of your little clique group?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]starsandgarters
2017-07-14 07:31 pm UTC (link)
I think at some point you need to have some degree of good faith in your fellow specimens to appoint people they believe will work in the best interests of their districts, their blocks, and the group as a whole.

Charles Xavier is a man who has dedicated his life to the principles of unity and peaceful co-existence. Sharon Carter is a high level bureaucrat from a federal Agency, and Steve Rogers is a decorated veteran who has spent his military career. I am a physician and self-styled man of letters.

Did we select talent that was known entities? Yes, but again only for the preliminary draft. This is us consulting the entire group. If you want radical changes, please suggest them. If there's something specific that makes you uncomfortable, this is also the place to suggest it.

But organization in general will benefit this group.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]rocinante
2017-07-14 07:35 pm UTC (link)
I'd like something in the rights section that says we can't discriminate against someone based specifically on what universe they're from and then I'll agree to it, with Amos likely following suit.

My objections as to how this was handled remain but it seems like you have your hands full; I won't bother you any further.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]starsandgarters
2017-07-14 07:40 pm UTC (link)
That's an excellent addition.

I'm sorry if you felt left out. That was not the intention, merely it was to get something prelimanry cobbled together as quickly as possible, before we find ourselves stuck in a desert wasteland with one loaf of bread and four sheets between us.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]tonystark
2017-07-14 07:38 pm UTC (link)
This isn't the republican health care bill. It was drafted openly, and this is your opportunity for notice and comment. Another version will be drafted based on the suggestions received now. If you wanted a constitution that look a certain way, you could have started drafting one yourself or expressed an interest in being involved when it was first discussed.

And nothing, really, but what we have now is a strange mix of anarchy, totalitarianism and mob rule. The current version of the constitution also gives groups a lot of discretion regarding how to self-police. It's pretty decentralized.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]rocinante
2017-07-14 07:42 pm UTC (link)
I did express interest. To Hank, actually.

This illustrates my point. Civil conversation with a mutant leads to an Avenger getting involved to further defend the mutant's viewpoint.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]starsandgarters
2017-07-14 07:45 pm UTC (link)
In all fairness, that last part is atypical.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]tonystark
2017-07-14 07:49 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, the Avengers and the X-Men choosing a restaurant is at least as adversarial a process as your average murder trial.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]starsandgarters
2017-07-14 07:58 pm UTC (link)
You should try being on both teams :(

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]butterflyeffect
2017-07-14 07:51 pm UTC (link)
You're mental if you think the Avengers and X-Men can ever do anything together.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]mutantmessiah
2017-07-14 07:54 pm UTC (link)
Well. Some can.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]butterflyeffect
2017-07-14 08:01 pm UTC (link)
Some ran away from home to home with the Avengers.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]mutantmessiah
2017-07-14 08:02 pm UTC (link)
And worked with an Avenger to fix things.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]butterflyeffect, 2017-07-14 08:37 pm UTC

[info]another
2017-07-14 07:51 pm UTC (link)
Do you know what confirmation bias is?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]rocinante
2017-07-14 07:56 pm UTC (link)
Sure, one time, confirmation bias. Another two, three? Point proven.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]another
2017-07-14 08:16 pm UTC (link)
No. That's still confirmation bias.

Because you are willingly ignoring whenever people who aren't the two groups agree or disagree with each other.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]professorwheels
2017-07-14 07:55 pm UTC (link)
Unfortunately one cannot include everyone who has an interest upon creating a first draft. However that hardly means that your input is not valuable, Captain Holden. We cannot change how this was brought about but I do hope we can move forward to make this a constitution that you believe wholeheartedly in.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]rocinante
2017-07-14 07:57 pm UTC (link)
At least you got my title right.

I already believe in it, if it's handled fairly. Whether it will be remains to be seen.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]professorwheels
2017-07-14 08:01 pm UTC (link)
People tend to appreciate when one does so.

Hopefully in time it will be proven that it shall be.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rocinante, 2017-07-14 08:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]professorwheels, 2017-07-14 09:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rocinante, 2017-07-14 09:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]professorwheels, 2017-07-14 09:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rocinante, 2017-07-14 10:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]professorwheels, 2017-07-14 10:25 pm UTC

[info]starsandgarters
2017-07-14 07:48 pm UTC (link)
Why are the Republicans drafting a health care bill. President Clinton will veto it.

That statement also applies if you think it's the 1990s.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]familybadass
2017-07-14 07:58 pm UTC (link)
You mean President Marsdin.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]starsandgarters
2017-07-14 07:58 pm UTC (link)
No, President Hillary Clinton.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]familybadass
2017-07-14 07:59 pm UTC (link)
I'm not familiar with her. The president I know is Olivia Marsdin. She's a huge alien rights advocate mainly because she is one but that's another story.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]tonystark
2017-07-14 08:14 pm UTC (link)
God, I miss the 90s.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]starsandgarters
2017-07-14 08:32 pm UTC (link)
Don't give them ideas. I was far too radical then.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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