InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Where's my purple crayon..."

drsevarius (drsevarius) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-09-04 14:44:00

Entry tags:

char: batgirl/oracle/barbara gordon, char: batman/bruce wayne, char: joker, char: robin/nightwing/dick grayson, char: starfire/koriand'r, creator: joe bennett, creator: marc andreyko

Dick and Babs: Awkward!

This is from Nightwing Annual #2 by Marc Andreyko and Joe Bennett

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	jlroberson 2009-09-05 12:22 am UTC (link)
	I have a question regarding the last panels, and please, it is a serious question and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I honestly do not know. When someone is crippled in the way Babs is, does she actually get any satisfaction from sex, down there? I mean, should she have any feeling below the waist, including, well, you know? I'm just curious. How would that work? (Reply to this) (Thread)

bluefall
2009-09-05 01:16 am UTC (link)

does she actually get any [genital] satisfaction from sex

Short answer: Quite possible, though likely a much more complicated prospect than before, and I highly doubt she's liable to get there from the hands-off missionary business she and Dick have going in that flashback.

For a longer, more in-depth analysis, the comments here are pretty illuminating for a one-stop LJ entry.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

lady_mondegreen
2009-09-05 12:28 am UTC (link)

Really? The daughter of the commissioner of GOTHAM CITY/BATGIRL, a vigilante who has faced the darkest aspects of the city, just opens the door to any ring without looking to see who it actually is? Also, it's great having a paraplegic heroine and all, but constantly alluding to that one aspect of her identity is just like when creators of gay heroes point out endlessly, "Look, they're gay!" It gets old, and becomes gimmicky. IMO, anyway.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	runespoor7 2009-09-05 12:40 am UTC (link)
	It's not an allusion, it's a theme of the story. It's one of the main issues in the Babs/Dick relationship, and considering that this annual was devoted entirely to the history (and couple needless retcons) of their relationship, not dealing with it would've made no sense, imo. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	all my opinion of course scottyquick 2009-09-05 01:07 am UTC (link)
	I-I don't know how to tell you this, lady_mondegreen, but The Killing Joke isn't the masterpiece that message boards are telling you. (except for the art. BRIAN BOLLAND :D!) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: all my opinion of course jlroberson 2009-09-05 01:19 am UTC (link)
	Alan Moore repudiates and regrets it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: all my opinion of course

starwolf_oakley
2009-09-06 02:51 am UTC (link)

What part, exactly? Moore has said THE KILLING JOKE isn't really "about" anything other than Batman and the Joker, but that's no reason to "repudiate" the story. After all, some think TKJ is about the nature of mental illness, part of the "Superheroes are crazy!" idea that continues to this day.

As far as crippling Barbara, I don't think Moore ever wrote any Batgirl stories.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: all my opinion of course

jlroberson
2009-09-06 05:56 am UTC (link)

He really hates the ending. He thought it was making too much out of Batman and Joker; he feels it's an example of his worst tics; and he really regrets crippling Batgirl, and the part of that which made him really regret it was when (reportedly) an editor, Len Wein, actually said with delight "Yeah! Cripple the bitch!"

But that must be seen in the light that was a different time when characters like Batgirl and Supergirl were looked upon as silly redundancies. Remember, they were so hot to kill off Robin a long time, and one could argue that getting rid of all stuff they thought of like that in the DCU was the whole point of the Crisis. Not that it's not an ugly sentiment, but it was more than mere misogyny.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: all my opinion of course -

runespoor7, 2009-09-06 08:23 am UTC

Re: all my opinion of course -

jlroberson, 2009-09-06 08:42 am UTC

Re: all my opinion of course -

runespoor7, 2009-09-06 10:37 am UTC

Re: all my opinion of course -

jlroberson, 2009-09-06 08:45 am UTC

Re: all my opinion of course -

starwolf_oakley, 2009-09-06 06:56 pm UTC

Re: all my opinion of course -

jlroberson, 2009-09-07 03:50 am UTC

bluefall
2009-09-05 01:23 am UTC (link)

The whole "open the door without looking" thing is somewhat alleviated - absolutely minimally so, but still enough that I feel obligated to point it out in the interest of absolute fair evaluation of what a shit story TKJ is - by the fact that Babs is expecting a friend from her yoga class to pick her up. Even folks who always check the peephole (and who doesn't, in this world of solicitors and Jehovah's Witnesses) will still blithely swing the door open ten minutes after ordering a pizza when they have reason to think they already know who's on the other side. (Those people, of course, don't live in Gotham and have never been Batgirl, so the issue still stands... just not quite as bad as it looks.)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-09-05 08:27 pm UTC (link)
	And they did go to some length (later) to state that Gordon had deliberately turned down the standard police guard that a commissioner was entitled to, to show he wasn't afraid of living in Gotham. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ar_feiniel_ 2009-09-05 12:40 am UTC (link)
	DIDN'T HAPPEN! (Reply to this)

	jarodrussell 2009-09-05 01:49 am UTC (link)
	She's invoking Godwin's Law during a therapy session. Damn, Oracle is queen on the blaggertubens. (Reply to this)

	jelly_ace 2009-09-05 02:59 am UTC (link)
	I like invalidating this whole arc with the fact that in one issue of Nightwing, it was seen that Dick was in the hospital with Babs after she got shot. So there. No matter how crappy the story is, the art was beautiful, though. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-09-05 08:23 pm UTC (link)
	And I own the page to prove it! :) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jelly_ace 2009-09-06 03:17 am UTC (link)
	That's a really nice page! Gotta reread my Nightwing. Oh, and take that, crappy annual! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-09-06 09:07 am UTC (link)
	Sadly that issue is a part of The Last Laugh, which I cheerfully loathe. Though this is one of the better tie ins as it has a nice Alan-Davis-esque flashback to Bruce and Dick in their Dynamic Duo days fighting the Joker. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	zordboy 2009-09-05 03:15 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, I have to confess, I liked this nifty little catch-up on Barbara's and Dick's relationship... ...except for that last scene, which is instant, epic, catastrophic fail. There's instant unnecessary character-assassination for you. (and honestly? Yeah, Joker should've sent a get well. Just for kicks. 'Cause you know he would've found it funny) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-09-05 08:28 pm UTC (link)
	Or a pair of tap shoes... (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

tanetris
2009-09-06 10:07 am UTC (link)

I'm willing to assume that he did in fact send something* but someone had the good sense to intercept them off-panel.

*: Possibly an increasingly over-the-top series of somethings. A get-well card, tickets to a formal ball, tap shoes, a full ballet dancer outfit... The latter two were quietly donated to a local dance school. After Bruce tested them for any toxins and such.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	gargoylekitty 2009-09-05 03:58 am UTC (link)
	I knew what it was yet I clicked the link anyway. Gods, this story annoys me. (Reply to this)

	ladymirth 2009-09-05 04:23 am UTC (link)
	MY EYES! THEY BURN! (Reply to this)

	proteus_lives 2009-09-05 08:56 am UTC (link)
	Dick: "Hate the game baby, not the player." (Reply to this)

	iondan 2009-09-06 02:05 am UTC (link)
	call me crazy but I don't find Starfire to be this insanely hot temptress that every other writer portrays her as. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	starwolf_oakley 2009-09-06 03:37 am UTC (link)
	She might from a "love the one you're with" culture. Or something. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	chipsnopotatoes 2009-09-07 07:41 pm UTC (link)
	what a soap opera this ending is. not a fan of it. dick's supposed to have more EQ than this, no? (Reply to this)

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