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There was one comment I wanted to pull out from the recent Lily threads for separate discussion.
I’m glad Hwyla pointed out that Lily almost had to have been a prefect in SWM. I’d been wanting someone to bring that up.
Warning: Lily-bashing ahead. At least I can't come up with any way to have Lily look good in SWM if she's really a prefect as well as Snape's supposed best friend.
Is it credible that Lily, a scant year later chosen to be Head Girl, was NOT a prefect in SWM?
Can anyone make a case (without violently contorting) that she was not?
Yet if she was: what does that say about her behavior in SWM? It was her perfectly duty as much as Lupin’s to discipline James and Sirius—both to stop their misbehavior, to punish them, and to prevent (one hopes, although in this case probably futilely) recidivism. Why isn’t Lily in there docking house points from Gryffindor and issuing detentions?
I mean, imagine if Hermione had found Cormac McLaggen and a couple of his friends ganging up on Ron. Or Percy witnessing several Gryffindors setting on Penelope. Would either of them credibly react as Lily does?
We know what we think of Prefect Lupin’s cowardice in not stopping his friends. But at least we understand his motives.
Lily’s motives…. Is she guilty of more favoritism than Snape at his worst, unwilling to punish her own house? (At least the Slytherins, as Whitehand points out, actually make considerable effort to make sure Snape doesn’t directly see their worst misbehavior. James checked to make sure Lily was watching before he started in on Snape!)
Is she a coward like Lupin, whose girlfriends have made her aware they will ostracize her if she punishes the wrong people (two popular, rich, good-looking Gryff boys, one a Quidditch star) or takes too many house points?
Is this James’s way of getting Lily to commit publicly to engaging him one-on-one rather than prefect-to-misbehaving student?
Or is she simply too weak to enforce her authority?
I can’t come up with any way to have Lily be a prefect and not look worse than Lupin.
And I can’t come up with any plausible reason why the future Head Girl wouldn’t have been Prefect.
(Oh fine, I can so. Mary Sue Macdonald, who was Lily's superior in all conceivable and inconceivable ways, was Gryffindor prefect fifth year and a shoo-in for Head Girl in Seventh. But Mulciber, who adored her, killed her sixth year in a fit of jealous rage--you'll be happy to know DD prevented his being expelled. Alternatively, the MoM pulled her from school to serve as head of the DMLE to lead the fight against You-Know-Who. She asked (with her dying breath or from her new position of power) that her mantle be passed to her lowly friend Lily, as a symbol of hope for Muggleborns that despite their inferior blood and abilities,they too might be granted a position of power if they pleased their superiors. The End.)
Bad fanfic aside, discuss?
I’m glad Hwyla pointed out that Lily almost had to have been a prefect in SWM. I’d been wanting someone to bring that up.
Warning: Lily-bashing ahead. At least I can't come up with any way to have Lily look good in SWM if she's really a prefect as well as Snape's supposed best friend.
Is it credible that Lily, a scant year later chosen to be Head Girl, was NOT a prefect in SWM?
Can anyone make a case (without violently contorting) that she was not?
Yet if she was: what does that say about her behavior in SWM? It was her perfectly duty as much as Lupin’s to discipline James and Sirius—both to stop their misbehavior, to punish them, and to prevent (one hopes, although in this case probably futilely) recidivism. Why isn’t Lily in there docking house points from Gryffindor and issuing detentions?
I mean, imagine if Hermione had found Cormac McLaggen and a couple of his friends ganging up on Ron. Or Percy witnessing several Gryffindors setting on Penelope. Would either of them credibly react as Lily does?
We know what we think of Prefect Lupin’s cowardice in not stopping his friends. But at least we understand his motives.
Lily’s motives…. Is she guilty of more favoritism than Snape at his worst, unwilling to punish her own house? (At least the Slytherins, as Whitehand points out, actually make considerable effort to make sure Snape doesn’t directly see their worst misbehavior. James checked to make sure Lily was watching before he started in on Snape!)
Is she a coward like Lupin, whose girlfriends have made her aware they will ostracize her if she punishes the wrong people (two popular, rich, good-looking Gryff boys, one a Quidditch star) or takes too many house points?
Is this James’s way of getting Lily to commit publicly to engaging him one-on-one rather than prefect-to-misbehaving student?
Or is she simply too weak to enforce her authority?
I can’t come up with any way to have Lily be a prefect and not look worse than Lupin.
And I can’t come up with any plausible reason why the future Head Girl wouldn’t have been Prefect.
(Oh fine, I can so. Mary Sue Macdonald, who was Lily's superior in all conceivable and inconceivable ways, was Gryffindor prefect fifth year and a shoo-in for Head Girl in Seventh. But Mulciber, who adored her, killed her sixth year in a fit of jealous rage--you'll be happy to know DD prevented his being expelled. Alternatively, the MoM pulled her from school to serve as head of the DMLE to lead the fight against You-Know-Who. She asked (with her dying breath or from her new position of power) that her mantle be passed to her lowly friend Lily, as a symbol of hope for Muggleborns that despite their inferior blood and abilities,they too might be granted a position of power if they pleased their superiors. The End.)
Bad fanfic aside, discuss?
Is this James’s way of getting Lily to commit publicly to engaging him one-on-one rather than prefect-to-misbehaving student?
This seems most likely, to me.
I can’t come up with any way to have Lily be a prefect and not look worse than Lupin.
I wouldn't say that she's *worse* than Lupin as a prefect...just as bad, perhaps.
JKR
I don't consider interviews canon, and in fact I haven't heard/read most of them myself.
Which is why I didn't cite that, JKR's authority for Lily having been prefect, just the probability.
worse?
Oh, no, definitely worse. Lupin's failure is from reluctance to discipline his best friends, to whom he owes "the best times of (his) life." Loyalty and affection, as much as spinelessness, influence him. What's her excuse? Why would she *not* use whatever authority she had to protect her friend?
duj
Re: worse?
I can see how, even if my theory were accepted, one might find Remus's reason for slacking off in his prefect duties to be more sympathetic, though.
Having said that, looking at them purely as prefects and divorcing personal feelings as to their reasoning for slacking off, I don't see Lily as being any worse a prefect. We know Remus slacked off every time with The Marauders, and we aren't shown how effectual or not he was otherwise. We see Lily slacking off in SWM, but we aren't shown how effectual she was or was not otherwise.
If your questions happened to be rhetorical, my apologies for blathering on. (I know I've already blathered a lot on the subject of Lily, LOL).
also if she would have the authority to report or punish offenders people would have reacted differently to her plea - or order - to leave severus snape alone. if not the marauders themselves, then others would have treated her with more respect and would have obeyed her, or at least fled the scene so they wouldn't be punished later.
but in the scene in the book no one really pays attention to her. it would have been impossible for lupin to ignore the bullying the way he did had she been a fellow prefect.
i don't think that lily evans was susceptible to peer pressure. she is only briefly described by jkr but we learn about her that she was born into a muggle family - being aware of her special abilities even as a young child. jkr does not describe her childhood explicitly but she must have felt isolated to a certain degree, especially from her sister.
although sorted into gryffindor she stayed friends with severus snape, despite his infatuation with the dark arts. in these times a friendship between a gryffindor and a slytherin would have been more than a little unusual with the first wizarding raging since 1970.
when talking to james potter she wasn't afraid to tell him her opinion and she saw through his attitude.
it is true that in the end she turned her back on him but only after he lashed out against her. there was a reason she was sorted into gryffindor - she might have tried to understand severus reasons for choosing "his path" but in the end she still remained a gryffindor - famous for being courageous, but also stubborn and maybe a bit simple minded.
divided loyalties
True. OTOH, we're aware of two special circumstances in his case; firstly that the fifth year prefect did such a poor job, and secondly that Dumbledore believed James had magnanimously saved an enemy who was trying to harm James's friend. Also, wasn't he Quidditch captain? That could well be an alternate route to Head Boy.
"people would have reacted differently to her plea - or order - to leave severus snape alone. if not the marauders themselves, then others would have treated her with more respect"
1) Her remarks were addressed exclusively to James, so everyone else was off the hook.
2) If James were the sort to be cowed by authority, he wouldn't have hexed Snape so publicly - or garnered so many detentions over the course of his schooling.
"it would have been impossible for lupin to ignore the bullying the way he did had she been a fellow prefect."
I don't agree. Maybe if she'd reminded him of his duty - which she didn't, of course - but even then his loyalties were to his friends, not the school, so I tend to doubt it.
"i don't think that lily evans was susceptible to peer pressure"
And yet one of the arguments she gives Snape after SWM is "None of my friends can understand why I even talk to you." So I think she was.
"jkr does not describe her childhood explicitly but she must have felt isolated to a certain degree, especially from her sister"
Must? I'd say she's the one who pulls away first, when she starts hanging with Snape against Petunia's wishes.
"she stayed friends with severus snape"
IMO, "stayed friends" is a bit strong, as I see *no* friendship in the post-Shack conversation. "Did not dump" is how I'd put it. But he is her only magical neighbour back home, and maybe she just wants to keep summer companionship an option.
"despite his infatuation with the dark arts"
For which we have only Sirius's testimony as evidence. In the post-Shack conversation Lily's complaining about Snape's *friends'* interest in Dark Magic, not his.
"more than a little unusual with the first wizarding raging since 1970."
"Raging" is a bit stronger than canon supports. Lily doesn't mention feeling personally threatened, Snape seems unaware she could, and a few years later Regulus - a Death Eater's cousin - still thinks Voldemort is about putting purebloods in their rightful place, not about killing. For that matter, there's little support for a strong Gryffindor-Slytherin divide - as against a Marauders-Slytherin divide -on the subject back in the 70s.
"when talking to james potter she wasn't afraid to tell him her opinion"
Why should she be? She must have known she was the one non-Marauder student safe from being hexed. He might *threaten*, but as long as he was trying to date her, he wasn't likely to carry through. (Notice that she doesn't even pull out her wand until Sirius resumes hexing.)
" in the end she turned her back on him but only after he lashed out against her"
IMO, she'd effectively turned her back by the Shack incident, when his near-death incident raised no concern in her whatsoever.
Re: divided loyalties
duj
Re: divided loyalties
i agree with you about james potter. jkr describes him, and wants him to be seen as a bully, and a jock. much of his success in school was based on his perceived attractiveness and his status as a quidditch star. of course there is no mention of other cases in canon to come to a safe conclusion.
about lupin i cannot agree nor disagree. my assumption was that lupin was an opportunist in school, anxious to fit in, hence his position as prefect. he must have been afraid to blow his cover and be expelled from hogwarts because of the risky pranks of his friends.
someone else though pointed out that lupin was more dependent on his friends who knew about his secret, so he would do everything to protect their interests. of course, intervening would have put him into opposition with his only friends.
jkr puts a lot of emphasis on snape's dark tendencies. - she plays throughout the whole series with it. (it was of course something that - as someone who was bullied for in school - interested me: the way she described snape, his reactions to bullying and the relatively cold way she treated his character.)
he may or may not have been interested in the dark arts. - i believe he was, but not because he had intentions to dominate the world but to be able to defend himself against his bullies. - in hbp his talents are highlighted, when harry gets hold of the potions book. for snape the dark arts might have been the only control he had in a world that was beyond his control.
about the first wizarding war: lily evans is mostly mentioned in brief flashbacks so you are right that she doesn't say that she felt personally threatened. regulus was 18 or 19? - when he died. he did die though through the hands or doing of voldemort.
it is possible that the war was not as relevant (after all the deaths of the members of the bones family, the prewett brothers, order members dearborn and fenwick, the mckinnon, etc., were only individual casualties) but must have been played some part in the reality of hogwarts 1971 - 1978.
the conflict between the houses slytherin and gryffindor were always - artificially and intentionally by means of house points, quidditch matches, etc., - instigated in the books, the house slytherin always villainized by jkr. it is hard to believe that the war didn't aggravate these - real or perceived - differences between these houses, and did not consequently influence the mindset of the teenaged pupils at all.
about lily evans character: listening to her friends doesn't make her necessarily susceptible to peer pressure. - we don't know who her friends were, what kind of people they were, how close they were, what her relationship with them was - i am not automatically excluding the possibility though.
she maybe knew she was safe from being hexed, but she was not friends with james potter, so she might have not. - may i assume you base your argument on the fact that james potter was infatuated with her? your argument is plausible if you think that she was aware of his crush on her.
i thought it not likely because lily evans didn't strike me as a vain person, someone overly aware of her physical attractiveness. - severus snape held her in high regards - his whole life. it seemed that he idolized her and must have - like lovers do - overlooked her flaws but it would seem hard to believe that someone as intelligent and mistrustful as severus snape was, harboured feelings for someone who was vain and superficial, even if he was lonely and only a child when he met her.
it is pleasant to discuss various points of view with other readers, and very interesting to read other people's opinions.
my apologies if i offended anyone with my opinions or with my bad english (it's unfortunately not my mother tongue :)
Re: divided loyalties
And this comment:
Regulus - a Death Eater's cousin - still thinks Voldemort is about putting purebloods in their rightful place, not about killing. For that matter, there's little support for a strong Gryffindor-Slytherin divide - as against a Marauders-Slytherin divide -on the subject back in the 70s.
is just no. So she's not supposed to be threatened because people want to systematically oppress and subjugate people like her, because, hey, at least they don't want to kill her (yet)? Uh, no. Also, I really don't think you can say that Lily doesn't appear to be threatened - general societal opinion, judging from other students (Lily's friends) and that kind of thing appears to be that Dark Magic is bad and people getting involved with these Death Eater types are not to be trusted, so it's bullshit that Severus wouldn't think she would be uncomfortable with the idea of pureblood supremacy. The fact of the matter, and one that you guys seem to be continuously forgetting is that these people are dead, these are all flashbacks, and the scenes we have of the Marauders, Severus, and Lily as children/students are extremely limited. We've seen maybe a few hours of total page time with them firsthand. Just because all of the scenes don't encompass Lily sobbing about Death Eaters hexing her in the hallway doesn't mean she doesn't feel fucking threatened by a growing movement that threatens her way of life.
-butterbeergirl on LJ
Unless James was Quidditch Captain. Then he would've 'put in enough hours' as student-authority-figure to be eligable for Head Boy.
>>>also if she would have the authority to report or punish offenders people would have reacted differently to her plea - or order - to leave severus snape alone. if not the marauders themselves, then others would have treated her with more respect and would have obeyed her, or at least fled the scene so they wouldn't be punished later. <<<
Well, she isn't there to punish James, is she. She is there to flirt with James. If she had burst in with a 'fifty points from Gryffindor, Mr Potter, for being such a spineless bully', she would've gotten the point across that she was there to punish people, but she doesn't. She barges in there, neither throws a 'finitum' to release Snape from his misery or admonish the Marauders. What she *does* say ('what did he ever do to you?') is a sign of weakness. You don't ask an agressor what his victim did to provoke an attack if you want to defend the victim or punish the bully.
>>>but in the scene in the book no one really pays attention to her. it would have been impossible for lupin to ignore the bullying the way he did had she been a fellow prefect. <<<
The way Hermione reacts to Ron, her fellow Gryffindor prefect who punished kids for playing with that magical frisbee, only because he wanted to take it away from them to play with it himself, you mean? Because nepotism is unheard of at Hogwarts?
>>>i don't think that lily evans was susceptible to peer pressure. <<<
Which is why she uses 'my friends are all amazed why I hang out with you' as an excuse to put Snape under pressure to stop associating with his housemates.
>>>she is only briefly described by jkr but we learn about her that she was born into a muggle family - being aware of her special abilities even as a young child. jkr does not describe her childhood explicitly but she must have felt isolated to a certain degree, especially from her sister. <<<
She has a sister who adored her enough to be worried when she jumped off high places and who desperately wanted to follow her to her 'special school'. She had parents who adored her and were very proud of her being so 'special'. She had a friend who was 'special' as she was, who clearly adored her and who constantly deferred to her. She is described as 'very popular'. She is Slughorns Teachers Pet, and since Sluggie is the WW social network man, she could be assured of 'getting to know all the right people.
We could all wish to be as 'lonely'.
>>>although sorted into gryffindor she stayed friends with severus snape, despite his infatuation with the dark arts.<<<
Because him being 'infatuated with the dark arts' (whatever that might mean) means that he is Very Evil. Like Bill Weasley, the Dark Arts specialist Curse Breaker, I suppose, or Harry Potter, whose only 'O' is in DADA *and* who speaks Parseltongue to boot, which clearly indicates that he is Totally Evuhl. Right?
>>>in these times a friendship between a gryffindor and a slytherin would have been more than a little unusual with the first wizarding raging since 1970. <<<
Because Slytherins are all evil and Gryffs are all good and never the twain shall shake hands? Because all Slyths are Pureblood (apart from the Snapes and Riddles) and Gryffs are not (apart from the Potters, the Weasleys, the Longbottoms...) or at least not interested in blood the way the Slyths are (that's why two rich pureblood jerks target a poor halfblood) and would help a Muggleborn despite her being muggleborn (unlike that nasty Slyth Slughorn who would never give a muggleborn a membership in his prodigeous Slug club. Oh. Wait.)
It annoys three kinds of sh*t out of me when I read something like this. Why should a friendship between members of two houses be so strange? Because the houses are supposed to hate eachother and Lily therefore deserves Brownie points for allowing Sev to follow her around without kicking him all too hard?
>>>when talking to james potter she wasn't afraid to tell him her opinion and she saw through his attitude.<<<
"Oooh, James Potter, you are sooo *awful*" is not 'not being afraid to tell him her opinion, its called 'flirting'.
>>>it is true that in the end she turned her back on him but only after he lashed out against her.<<<
Actually, he didn't. He adressed his 'mudblood' comment to James. But it was wrong of him, even though I understand that he was provoked beyond reason by being set upon by a pack of bullies, and then his supposed 'friend' not only flirts with the leader of the pack, but she 'suppresses a smile' when said packleaders shows off to her by turning him upside down so everyone can see his threadbare underwear. Even the gentlest dog will snarl and bite if you prod him with pointed sticks long enough.
But it was wrong of him to call her 'mudblood'. Sure, he knew her, and knew that this was the one thing that would hurt her the most, and he wanted to both attack James' taste in the ladies as hurt Lily for her betrayal, but, as I said, he was wrong to call her a 'mudblood'.
He should've called her 'fucking unfaithful cow'.
>>>there was a reason she was sorted into gryffindor <<<
Vainglorious? Wanted to be admired, willy nilly?
->>>she might have tried to understand severus reasons for choosing "his path" <<<
Ah yes, Snape's 'path'. What path might this be, pray? His path to (cue creepy music) 'darkness'? His path to (dum dum dummm) being a Death Eater?!
He was 15. From the moment he put foot on that train, two rich pureblood bullies targetted him as an easy mark. He was both poor (clothing), halflblood (no magical family members to complain to their families), Slytherin (you can virtually *kill* a Slyth and still not be expelled! That's just *asking* for it, really. You can attack them just for *existing*, imagine that) and, maybe most telling, he was friends with, and listened to a *girl*. He might as well have painted a bulls eye on his forehead.
And what, exactly, did Lily berate him for? That he still associated with members of his own House. The people who, according to McGonegal, are 'your family' during your school years. The people who slept in the same place as he slept, whose Common Room he had to share. In short, Lily wants him to stop associating with them, because she thinks they are bad for him. All destined to become DE's.
That surely must've been one of the most prejudiced, racist things any character ever said in those books. She might've well said, "but they are all *muslims*, Sev, and you know what they say about Americans like me.. They want to kill us all.. You'll become a terrorist for sure if you don't denounce your heritage, your faith and your family".
The ironic thing is, of course, that Snape tried to warn her against *her* housemates, in particular the youthful criminals who, among other things, roamed the countryside with a Dark Creature. The ironic thing being that Snape had far more reason to think the Marauders were on a 'dark path' than any of his housemates.
Let's add to that - Lily's only complaint at this point was that Sev apparently hung out with a guy who 'tried' to hex a girl with something 'dark' at a time when Sev wasn't even around. And then, we don't even know WHAT this spell was. WAS it dark? Surely if he tried to Imperio Mary it could have been proven, and then Mulciber would have been expelled. What other 'dark' curse COULD he have used that Snape would say was supposed to be funny? It certainly could not have been a Crucio.
But alternatively, according to JKR, ALL hexes, Jinxes, and curses ARE Dark - in other words, Ginny is throwing around 'dark magic' everytime she uses a bat-bogey hex. It seems to me that Mulciber's 'Dark' spell was most probably one of Sev's spells. The ones that Ron and Harry laugh over and think funny, but that Hermione reminds them include LeviCorpus which they had seen used at the World Cup.
This leads me to wonder whether since Hogwarts doesn't 'teach' dark arts, then would any spell that someone didn't recognize be automatically thought to be 'dark'? Especially if cast by a Slytherin? Is the Marauders' use of LeviCorpus NOT considered 'dark' only because the curse has been so popular already that year? And most especially because they don't know it was invented by a Slytherin?
All I can say is that while LILY thought Sev too 'dark' at the end of 5th year - HARRY still liked him and found him funny even through Sev's 6th year.
And lastly, about a Gryffindor and Slytherin being friends - this is in a school atmosphere that has had the Slug Club for a very long time, so a mixing of houses is actually more likely then than in Harry's time -- Hwyla
1) How exactly was Severus to stop associating with them? He lives in the same dormitory with them (and we have no evidence that someone can request to be re-sorted or live outside the dormitories). He has classes with them and exams with them. His seat in the dining hall is at their table. All of this is association, regardless of what Severus *wants.* Is he never supposed to speak to any of them and just sit alone at the end of the table? Is he supposed to spend all his free time either with Lily alone or simply by himself? A certain degree of day-to-day association is unavoidable.
Now, who he chooses to hang out with on his free time is his choice (beyond people forcing their company on him), but again, Lily is not going to be available all the time, and expecting him to live in isolation otherwise is just cruel. He doesn't have to *agree* with his Housemates or laugh at their jokes, but Severus may have feared the results of not playing along to some minimum - I find canon somewhat unclear on just how much he truly enjoyed hanging with the others, and how much was just trying to get along without getting hexed. We know he found something Mulciber did funny, and doesn't 100% reject his company, but beyond that?
2) What would the likely results have been if Severus did as Lily seems to expect and unambiguously rejected his Housemates all together? (ignoring for a moment the problem of seeing all Slyths as necessarily bad company and proto-DE's being itself prejudiced.) Not only do these people have access to him while he is sleeping, he is also at some point likely going to have to ask some of them or their relatives for a job. He is not rich, he will have to work for a living, and the WW is small. We see in Harry's time that Slytherins have influence throughout the WW, and I doubt it was hugely different in Sev's time. Undoubtedly getting on the wrong side of his Housemates could negatively impact his future prospects. Not that this excuses everything wholesale, but it is a very real and legitimate concern for poor young man. What is Severus honestly supposed to do?
Especially since his only other source of support in the WW is one Muggleborn girl his own age (as a Muggleborn, that is, she does not bring any established family ties or contacts in the WW into play, and faces discrimination herself in certain quarters) and who does not seem to have unlimited resources to support him. Really, making such a demand puts Severus between a rock and a hard place.
He should've called her 'fucking unfaithful cow'.
That's an interesting idea (although I don't think the word "fucking" would show up in canon ;) ). A good deal of AU fanfic gets written around the idea that he keeps his mouth shut here, but what if he had called her something nasty but without racist associations, like this?
That surely must've been one of the most prejudiced, racist things any character ever said in those books. She might've well said, "but they are all *muslims*, Sev, and you know what they say about Americans like me.. They want to kill us all.. You'll become a terrorist for sure if you don't denounce your heritage, your faith and your family".
Um...really?
This is incredibly offensive. You're equating being a follower of Islam with being a follower or at least supporter of a violent pureblood supremacist movement. Do you not see your own racism here? Death Eaters already are terrorists.
-butterbeergirl on LJ
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Are you trying to paint the Death Eaters as being a religion that's falsely maligned by people who wrongly fear the extremist elements of that religion? Are you seriously trying to equate Muslims with a voluntary group that's pretty much an analogue for the frickin' Nazi Party?
Let's just go ahead and lay this out, so that we're clear on the issue.
Death Eaters? Like the Nazis or the KKK, take your pick. There's no Godwin here; it's a valid comparison. JKR says so. That's Word of God, to use the TV Tropes expression.
Now, we've got a Slytherin house that, at the time of Snape and Lily's studenthood, is full of the wizarding equivalent of the Hitler Youth. Snape's gung-ho for it. These proto-Nazis make him feel powerful, included. He's in sync with their ideology.
So, Lily is asking him to stop associating with Nazis. I don't care how much of a bitch she is, that's not unreasonable. It's not unreasonable to ask anyone to repudiate a bunch of racists who basically want to put 'mudbloods' into concentration camps.
In no way, no how, in any logical reading of the text, is it like assuming all Death Eaters are like poor maligned Muslims. I mean, if that's so, then what Voldemort is doing is A-friggin-OK and they should have let him do it! Otherwise, it's interfering with the religion!
So, no, that analogy does not fly. At all. And if you think it's a valid analogy, I have to seriously question your values...if you think the Death Eaters are a maligned religion, just like Muslims are, than what are you feelings towards Nazis and the KKK? Sympathetic? Are THEY maligned?
Of course, I remember an instance where Percy takes points from Gryffindor but I'm pretty sure it's in PoA, where he's Head Boy, and I don't remember prefects being able to give detentions, either.
-butterbeergirl on LJ
In CoS, a prefect can take points, but in OotP, only members of the IS can, so that the IS can abuse their authority.
On the other hand, on the train ride to Hogwarts in OotP, Ron talks about how, now that he's a prefect, he'll be able to make Goyle do lines.
So, it isn't clear whether or not Lily could have taken points, since the books aren't consistent about that. However, OotP itself establishes that prefects can give detentions, so Lily *could* have done that.
Lynn
Also, I'm fairly sure that Lily was a prefect
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