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	bluefall 2009-08-26 01:00 am UTC (link)
	Ollie working for Babs? Now there's a clusterfuck of a disaster waiting to happen. The two of them could start off the next Crisis all by themselves. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	parsimonia 2009-08-26 01:03 am UTC (link)
	Hahaha, but it would be a fun disaster! Actually, I could see them having a lot of entertaining interactions in clashing. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(Deleted post)

	xlineartx 2009-08-26 01:21 am UTC (link)
	Ollie would totally be down, if this was well-written proper Kevin Shith-era Ollie. Unfortunately the Ollie that's been written most often lately is a total asshole whose main character trait is "promiscuous." Man, someday I'm going to have to explain to everyone why I even bother with him. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	uadlika 2009-08-26 01:30 am UTC (link)
	As a fellow Ollie-fan, I would be interested in this explanation. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kingrockwell 2009-08-26 06:10 am UTC (link)
	I just read (and posted) the '88 Green Arrow annual, and it is exactly all of the reasons I've ever liked him. The reunion of Denny and Ollie was everything I dreamed it should've been, plus Lady Shiva being awesome! I want that Ollie back, Quiver ended with us having that Ollie back. :( (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	parsimonia 2009-08-26 06:22 am UTC (link)
	I've been meaning to scan and post some from Quiver. I had been thinking of the part where Bats and Spoiler do an "autopsy" on an unconscious Ollie. (Oh, Batman, always wanting to get Ollie naked and examine him, dead or alive. XD ) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

kingrockwell 2009-08-26 06:35 am UTC (link)

I can't remember if I'd read Hard-Travellin' Heroes or Quiver first, but I dearly love the both of them, and they're pretty much what I go back to when I have to remind myself why Ollie's one of my favorites. I actually went back over that issue after Scotty's post featuring Bruce and Steph, just because he mentioned rejecting it. I'm pretty sure that was the comic that introduced me to Steph, even! And how can you not love these two panels? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	parsimonia 2009-08-27 02:05 am UTC (link)
	Heh, those two panels are great. I've never read Hard Travellin' Heroes all the way through. Took me forever to hunt down Quiver, actually. I never saw it at my LCS or other comic stores, and then one day I was in Indigo (big chain bookstore) and there it was! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kingrockwell 2009-08-27 02:30 am UTC (link)
	Indigo, huh? :D My library had it way back when I was getting back into comics. My LCS has the trade, but I just haven't gotten to the point where I had money for a trade and didn't see something else I wanted to get more. (Reply to this) (Parent)

bluefall 2009-08-26 01:15 am UTC (link)

I cannot imagine how you'd ever get either of them to agree to it in the first place. Like, I can almost see Dinah convincing Ollie to give it a shot, but I can't picture her thinking it'd be a good idea, so that's out before it starts. And Babs wouldn't even consider it. (Helena's expression of "Are you fucking kidding me" would be pretty sublime, too.) dammit I can't type for shit today (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	enerprime 2009-08-26 01:19 am UTC (link)
	Hey, Oracle works with Bruce Wayne on a regular basis, I think she can handle Ollie with little trouble. And with a good writer, Oliie is usually professional enough to work well with someone he does not get along with (see: Hawkman). (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

bluefall 2009-08-26 01:33 am UTC (link)

I think Ollie would actually be pretty chill about her, provided Babs was acting in a baseline-working-with-other-heroes way. She's a creepy fascist with no respect for the sacred right of privacy, and she's every bit as curt and uninformative as Bruce, so he'd rant about her and tell her off plenty, but he does that with a lot of his buddies. Bruce, in fact, is one of the people he respects most, and he probably calls Hal a Nazi as much as every other person in his life combined, and that's his best friend. And a well-written Ollie would care a great deal about how much Babs means to Dinah. Babs, though, would not behave around him. She'd be snippy and obnoxious and provoke him as much as possible, and he would let her. Because Babs, honestly, is often not very professional about working with people she doesn't like. Her behavior toward Kory and Shiva, for example. Bruce may be a dick, but he's family; Ollie, on the other hand, has hurt family in the past, and Babs was the one who had to pick up the pieces. The friendliest she's ever been about him from the start of BIRDS on out was to respect how important he is to Dinah; she's never seemed more than tolerant of him for himself, and is frequently disparaging. No way that wouldn't come out, messy, if she were regularly in a position to give him orders. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	enerprime 2009-08-26 01:41 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, I can see what you're saying. That, combined with Ollie's authority problems, wouldn't work out well for the long term. But it could make for some fun and enjoyable team-up isuues though. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bluefall 2009-08-26 02:31 am UTC (link)
	Oh most assuredly. I wonder if Bedard wouldn't have written some, had he been allowed the time to play out his plot as he intended - he certainly did seem committed to exploring the change in the Babs-Dinah relationship due to the marriage, and if you follow that thread vigorously, Babs-Ollie interaction would almost inevitably have to result. (Reply to this) (Parent)

parsimonia 2009-08-26 01:42 am UTC (link)

But, I think there is a case to be made for the idea that if he's married to Dinah, she is obligated to treat him as (extended) family. Because it means he's not going to go away quickly, and it means that hurting him would be hurting Dinah. Obviously, he and Babs would need get to get to know each other a bit better as colleagues, and possibly as friends, before that kind of relationship could really be cemented, but I could see it happening. And I mean, if Dick and Kory were married and Babs had to work with both of them, I like to think that she would make an effort to find some common ground eventually. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

bluefall 2009-08-26 02:27 am UTC (link)

I like to think that she would make an effort to find some common ground eventually. I like to think that too, but the evidence is somewhat against us. ^_^ I think there is a case to be made for the idea that if he's married to Dinah, she is obligated to treat him as (extended) family. Weeeeeell. My maternal uncle is a dickweed. And by that, I mean a nasty, bastardly, intolerable excuse for a human being. The way he treats my aunt is simply not acceptable. The way he treats my cousin, only acceptable by comparison. Pretty much everyone in the family hates him. He does come to Christmases and the like, yes - we tolerate him for her sake, he's actually even a pretty fun guy until you see him talk to his wife... ... but it took the family about a decade and a half to get to that point. They thought she deserved better. They didn't like him. They weren't going to pretend otherwise. So, there were a bunch of small fights and then one big fight and then they didn't interact with either of them for the next ten years, to much misery and bitterness for all involved parties. Obviously, Babs and Dinah are less dysfunctional than my mother's family (and provided you consider GA/BC noncanon, Ollie's probably a better husband than my uncle. Marginally). I'm just saying, "she's family, so her boyfriend is family" doesn't necessarily follow when said boyfriend is not liked by the family. Even if it does involve hurting the actual family member in question. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

parsimonia 2009-08-26 03:12 am UTC (link)

I see your point about families. But when it comes to Dinah and Babs and Ollie, I would think that Dinah would be likely to intervene before things got too bad. I mean, she's not going to take kindly to either Ollie or Babs completely ragging on the other. If she didn't intervene, Babs and Ollie would be looking at a situation where Dinah would be hurt by and pissed off at both of them. If she leaves the mix, then what do you have? Ollie and Babs sitting around yelling at each other, with no Dinah, who was the one they both cared about in the first place (and that's where an evil writer would try to make Babs/Ollie happen just to fuck things up entirely). So to avoid that situation, I can see both reigning it in and trying for the grudging compromise thing. (You've also got me thinking about the occasional fractures in my own extended family, and I think the method there has mostly been avoidance. =/ ) I like to think that too, but the evidence is somewhat against us. ^_^ *sigh* You know I'd like to see? A story where Kory and Babs have to work together on something, and you, you know, have the expected tensions at first. BUT THEN, they get a chance to see exactly what kind of superhero the other is, and they come to really respect each other as a result. And there would be absolutely no mentioning of Dick or him appearing at any time. And if you wanted them to actually like each other, maybe something could happen like the Commissioner almost getting killed, but then of course Kory saves him. So you'd have Babs all "OMFG thank you!" and Kory would realize "hey! she's not a heartless bitchy robot!" or whatever. Then they could be sorta friends. Because, as we've discussed before, I hate how Dick/Kory so often comes off as a dis to Babs, but if Babs and Kory actually got a long, that potential wouldn't be so bad. Even though I still wouldn't want Dick/Kory to happen. *I'm* petty, but Babs doesn't always have to be! lol (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	parsimonia 2009-08-26 03:13 am UTC (link)
	I shouldn't be allowed to do HTML past 11 pm. (Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - scottyquick, 2009-08-26 01:08 pm UTC

(no subject) - parsimonia, 2009-08-27 01:49 am UTC

(no subject) - scottyquick, 2009-08-27 02:12 am UTC

(no subject) - parsimonia, 2009-08-27 02:22 am UTC

	(Anonymous) 2009-08-26 05:03 am UTC (link)
	she would make an effort to find some common ground eventually. BABS: So, you drink water? I drink water, too. OLLIE: Uh, Irish water . . . (Reply to this) (Parent)

parsimonia 2009-08-26 01:24 am UTC (link)

Oh, I don't think there would ever be any agreement. Dinah's working for her regularly, and once or twice Mia comes along. And Ollie's feeling left out, so he just sort of starts showing up, and sometimes he's helpful, and other times he just gets in the way, and Dinah tries to set him up on man-dates to keep him occupied, etc. Ollie has to resist the urge to call Babs a spying fascist or whatever, and Babs has to refrain from criticizing him too harshly, because neither of them want to offend Dinah. Good times! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kingrockwell 2009-08-26 06:16 am UTC (link)
	They'd just snipe at each other at a low enough volume Dinah couldn't hear. I've thought a lot about this. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	404glitch 2009-08-26 08:40 am UTC (link)
	Dinah tries to set him up on man-dates to keep him occupied And suddenly CRY FOR JUSTICE makes sense! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	parsimonia 2009-08-27 02:03 am UTC (link)
	Well-played, sir! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sistermagpie 2009-08-26 01:15 am UTC (link)
	It would be one hell of a fun disaster! (Reply to this) (Parent)

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