InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "ask me how I am..."

Doop (xdoop) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-07-27 19:13:00

Entry tags:

char: adeline wilson, char: beast boy/changeling/gar logan, char: cyborg/vic stone, char: deathstroke/slade wilson, char: jericho/joseph wilson, char: raven/rachel roth, char: robin/nightwing/dick grayson, char: starfire/koriand'r, char: terra/tara markov, char: william randolph wintergreen, char: wonder girl/troia/donna troy, creator: george perez, creator: marv wolfman, creator: ron randall, group: teen titans, publisher: dc comics, title: teen titans

Slade Wilson and Tara Markov: A Love Story

In this post I will be showing the classic romance of Slade Wilson and Tara Markov, by Marv Wolfman and George Perez.

First off is The New Teen Titans #34.

Terra is upset that even though she's been with the Titans for several months, they've refused to tell her their secrets or treat her as a true equal.

Deathstroke is with his hostage when...

The other Teen Titans arrive.

Deathstroke battles them until...

Their story continues in The New Teen Titans #39. The Titans are battling Brother Blood's cult.

Later, Terra is with the Titans. Wally is leaving the team, and Dick is staying but retiring his Robin identity.

In Tales of the Teen Titans #42, Terra and Beast Boy are training.

In Tales of the Teen Titans #43 Dick is attacked by Deathstroke, who now knows his civilian identity. Dick manages to escape, and Deathstroke goes after him.

Dick tries finding the other Titans, but they've all been captured.

In Tales of the Teen Titans Annual #3 the rest of the Titans find themselves being held hostage by H.I.V.E.

Meanwhile, Jericho and Dick (now in his new Nightwing identity) are starting to invade H.I.V.E's fortress.

Deathstroke doesn't know Wintergreen is being held at gunpoint by Adeline.

Jericho and Nightwing are inside the fortress when...

The Jericho-possessed Deathstroke frees the rest of the Titans.

This is from Tales of the Teen Titans #55. It's written by Marv Wolfman and illustrated by Ron Randall.

Slade is on trial for kidnapping the senator back in #34, but he is able to get off by hiring a Deathstroke impersonator, causing doubt as to if he was the Deathstroke behind the kidnapping. In the end, the judge (Adrian Chase) is only able to sentence him to one year for the illegal possession of the firearms found in his penthouse apartment.

While in prison Slade is attacked by a vengeful Beast Boy, but he manages to escape. The next day he is released after some of the senators he did undercover work for cleared him of the gun charge.

Slade meets Beast Boy in the arranged spot, but not as Deathstroke. Slade refuses to fight back, and Beast Boy is unable to kill him.

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	ashtoreth 2009-07-28 02:03 am UTC (link)
	From what I read, Terra was introduced shortly after Kitty Pryde. Kitty was played for the obvious cute and spunky factor. Terra was meant to mimic that and subvert it. :) Ever wonder what it would've looked like if their roles were reversed? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	seawolf10 2009-07-28 02:41 am UTC (link)
	A lot of beaver jokes (buck-teeth and all) over at DC, and Claremont being accused of anti-Semitism over at Marvel. But on a less whimsical note... A lot more dead. Earth manipulation is a pretty dangerous superpower, but compared to someone who can phase something out, stick it into the space your skull's occupying, and phase it back in... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jlroberson 2009-07-28 06:55 am UTC (link)
	If "shortly" means "about three years later," yes. But of course, the entire point of NTT was competing with the X-Men. Only it was NTT that had readable, and intelligent, writing(but X-Men had the grander plots). X-Men was like a soap, but NTT was more like a primetime drama. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

kitty_tc_69
2009-07-28 10:49 pm UTC (link)

You seriously must be kidding, right? The simplicity and black and white nature of this is appallingly bad... LOOK KIDS SHE'S SMOKING AND WEARING MAKEUP BECAUSE SHE'S A GIRL AND DOESN'T HAVE A MOUSTACHE TO TWIRL AND YET DON'T WORRY, SHE'S EEEVIL AND WE WON'T BOTHER YOUR LITTLE MINDS WITH ANYTHING LIKE MORAL AMBIGUITY OR ETHICAL CONFLICT OR EVEN SO MUCH AS REASONS, OH NO, SHE'S JUST EEEVIL AND INSANE AND HATEFUL FOR NO REASON AT ALL, NO REASON TO THINK ABOUT IT OR QUESTION ANYTHING!

The X-Men were telling stories about politics and social issues that have stood the test of time, reflecting real world issues of isolation, prejudice, religious hatred, the link between conservative politics and hate groups, and the history of genocide. Mutant issues were a clear analogue for the civil rights struggle, with the two opposing protagonists in Magneto and Xavier typically compared to Malcom X and MLK, repectively with their contrast of hardline and conciliatory resistance styles. In the years since, the metaphor has come to incorporate other minority struggles, most recently gay rights, but it works no matter what real world issues you draw parallels to. As long as there is repression of minorities, which has existed all throughout human history, as long as there is bigotry and prejudice, the X-Men are relevant. They mean something. You can learn real lessons from it, it comments on real social issues that have significance.

The Terra Markov story goes out of it's way to strip itself of any relevance, any meaning, making sure the reader knows without a doubt that it's villain is not sympathetic, not broken, not in any way possessing of human motivations, she is instead simply eeeevil and generically "insane" with absolutely no reason behind it whatsoever. We learn nothing from it, except perhaps that it's bad to be a one-dimensional cardboard villain in a shallow world of black and white morality. Wertham would be proud of such innoffensive blandness.

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angelophile
2009-07-28 11:24 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, shoutiness aside, I do have to lean towards this view. I can't really judge as I haven't read a whole lot of Titans from this era, but going by this alone - it's pretty much pure soap and I'm certainly not seeing prime time drama. Given that around this time Claremont was doing stuff like Days of Future Past, to describe that as soap opera and this as superior is... baffling to me.

I quite enjoyed it as its own story, however, just not somehow above X-men of the era. God Loves, Man Kills came out a few months before and I'm baffled how anyone could say that was pure soap opera.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

kitty_tc_69
2009-07-29 03:36 am UTC (link)

Sorry for the "shouting", the caps was mean to parody the blatant anviliciousness of the comic, the way they made repeatedly clear that there was literally no reason for Terra's actions and that she was just eeevil because she was. They hit you over the head with it, made damned sure there could be no other interpretation possible. The "shouting" was meant to summarize the narration, not be my own words conveyed forcefully.

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runespoor7
2009-07-28 11:42 pm UTC (link)

she is instead simply eeeevil and generically "insane" with absolutely no reason behind it whatsoever

There's nothing generic about her insanity. 'Generic insanity' would require her to be a lot more disconnected from reality than she is. Instead, she's shown as focused, able, highly conscious of how to manipulate people, dangerous, convincing. As for her not being broken, I'd say her portrayal in her last scene and the narrative show pretty clearly how broken she is.

I like how you speak of black and white morality and carboard villains when the last scene has Slade helping Gar through his grief.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

kitty_tc_69
2009-07-29 03:46 am UTC (link)

Any other interpretation is blatantly contradicted in text. Slade may be a multilayered villain here, but Terra is clearly not. "Do not search for reasons where there are clearly none", indeed. Had they not so specifically and repeatedly insisted that she was just "insane" (there's a clinical diagnosis for ya!) and filled with hate and evil for "no reason" and "no fault but her own", one could have been left to wonder what would drive a person, especially a young girl, to such depths. But they made damned sure to beat you over the head with NO, there is no reason, no causation, no origin in her past that would explain her actions. She was driven by no ideology, twisted by no ill upbringing, damaged by no trauma. She was just evil because she was evil. That's not my interpretation of it, that's what the writer goes out of his way to ram home in no uncertain terms.

I'm sorry if you dislike the criticism, but it's right there in black and white on the page. The girl was a cardboard cutout who was eeevil just because. She had no motivations of any kind, not only did the author not depict or describe any but he deliberately stated that she had none. That type of non-motivation in antagonists is typically judged to be a writing flaw, and I'm within my rights to call out on it.

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runespoor7
2009-07-29 06:10 am UTC (link)

"She's the best little sociopath I've ever known." There's the specificity you were looking for.

She was driven by no ideology, twisted by no ill upbringing
If she were, that wouldn't make her insane.

Maybe you call overwhelming hatred for everything the Titans stand for and the reasoning behind it a non-motivation. I find that the personal nature of her relationship with the Titans more than make up for it. It shifts the drama from an ideological point of a view to that of the relationships; I don't think it's inherently inferior to the former.

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	kitty_tc_69 2009-07-29 06:17 am UTC (link)
	Slade isn't a psychologist qualified to make diagnoses, and his description (which is most likely a generalized, layman's term for nucking futs) doesn't trump the author's omniscient perspective narration. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

runespoor7
2009-07-29 10:25 pm UTC (link)

The author's narrative doesn't trump the characters' reactions and emotions. Slade's not a psychiatrist, but Wolfman isn't either, and if only qualified doctors can have their judgement on a character's sanity hold any weight, we're not going to go very far. I don't know, I just hold the characters' reactions and emotions to a higher degree of importance than the narrative, especially when it's omniscient narrative instead of being from a character's point of view.

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kitty_tc_69
2009-07-29 10:36 pm UTC (link)

I'm sorry but that makes precious little sense. The entire point of omniscient narrative is that it's omniscient, it knows everything. A character's viewpoint may be biased, or misinformed, or limited by his or her knowledge and experience, but the omniscient author's word is the fact of the matter. It's the most direct form of exposition, and it trumps the viewpoint-limited words of a character within the story.

Fact is, sociopathy is a mental illness, and is a condition to be treated by medication and therapy. A clinically diagnosed sociopath isn't legally guilty of actions caused by his condition, the legal insanity defense applies. if Terra was mentally ill, she would be absolved of direct responsibility and could not be jailed, only placed in psychiatric treatment.

The author is quite specific to eliminate any such mitigating circumstances. She is not a victim of mental illness, she's just "insane" without any cause, "through no fault but her own". It's right there in black and white on the page. I do wish you'd argue what was there instead of what you'd like to be there.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

runespoor7
2009-07-29 10:51 pm UTC (link)

As a reader, what I'm interested in are the characters. What's going to stick with me are the characters' take on anything, far more than the author's - including the narrative, omniscient though it may be, and no matter how illogical that stand may seem to you.

You can't argue both that the author's omnisicent word is everything, and refute Slade's words because he's not a psychiatrist. If Slade's opinion carries no weight, not just because he has a limited perspective on the situation, but because - you originally argued - he's not qualified medically to make a diagnosis, then Wolfman's isn't any better off. Provided that was indeed Wolfman's opinion rather than a distanced conclusion to a tragic tale.

I'm arguing what's on the page. I gave you a quote, you're refuting it, fine. I gave you a description of how Terra is depicted, you didn't answer it since it doesn't seem to be your point, okay. I'm not seeing how I'm indulging in wishful thinking.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

xdoop
2009-07-29 12:45 am UTC (link)

LOOK KIDS SHE'S SMOKING AND WEARING MAKEUP BECAUSE SHE'S A GIRL AND DOESN'T HAVE A MOUSTACHE TO TWIRL

While I agree that Claremont's work was superior, I don't think Wolfman was trying to say "She's evil because has makeup and she's smoking." I mean, Adeline smokes in the same story.

I think it was supposed to serve as a jarring contrast to how she usually looked like as the Titans' "kid sister."

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	kamino_neko 2009-07-29 07:16 pm UTC (link)
	I agree this story isn't terribly great (the animated series did a much better Terra arc), but I can't agree that the contemporary X-Men stories were really any better. Claremont might have been doing more meaningful stories, but his writing vices dulled the impact terribly. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kitty_tc_69 2009-07-29 09:45 pm UTC (link)
	Read God Loves, Man Kills and get back to me on that. Or Days of Future Passed. Or go a little later and read the Mutant Massacre, or the X-Men vs FF mini. Claremont's flaws are deeply exaggerated by his anti-fans. Especially when they project their distaste for his modern stuff onto bona fide classics done in his prime. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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