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drsevarius (drsevarius) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-04-27 09:01:00

Entry tags:

char: batman/bruce wayne, char: catwoman/selina kyle, char: joker, char: robin/catgirl/carrie kelly, creator: frank miller, series: bat/cat, title: the dark knight returns

Bat/Cat: The Dark Knight Returns

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psychop_rex
2009-04-28 02:45 am UTC (link)

Actually, I'm pretty certain that Miller did that more to address the issues surrounding the Batman/Robin pairing than anything else. I think he's actually stated that he make the DKR Robin female because of all the 'Batman and Robin are gay' innuendo - the idea being, I think, that he was saying to himself 'so they think BM+R are GAY, do they? All right, I'll make Robin an underaged GIRL and put her in the short-shorts, ha ha, and see how much better they like THAT!' He was essentially doing it more to be provocative than anything else - although, in his favor, he did wind up writing a pretty good character.
(Interestingly enough, I think if Bob Kane HAD made Robin female and put her in the short-shorts, he probably would have gotten far more outrage than he ever got about the male Robin. Back then, when homosexuality was something polite people didn't think about, the notion of a boy in short-shorts wasn't all that outrageous - after all, little kids wore shorts all the time, and Robin was manifestly a kid for quite a while there, even if a somewhat older one - but a girl showing her LEGS? Outrageous! There would be letters to the editor! It was only after Wertham started stirring things up that people started to think things might be a little weird there.)

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	ladymirth 2009-04-28 02:52 am UTC (link)
	I can't imagine a time when people wouldn't look at a guy who would take a teenage boy into his life, dress him up in panties and pixie boots and let him get beaten and tied up on a nightly basis and NOT THINK THERE WERE PROBLEMS HERE! When you think of the goings-on that must have gone on undectected at the time.... (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-04-28 04:10 am UTC (link)
	'Tis truly said, we were a more innocent nation then. Anyway, if you look at Robin's origin story, there are clues that he may have at least partially designed his costume himself - his outfit in the circus is basically tight shorts and a wifebeater, if I remember correctly. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ladymirth 2009-04-28 04:19 am UTC (link)
	Dick Grayson - one man fashion disaster in any universe. He didn't do much better after he became Nightwing. I refer to the Discowing outfit, the Elvis Presley in Vegas outfit and that thing with feathers on it. Oh, and that relic he dug up to wear while travelling with Superboy during Infinite Crisis. And that's not even mentioning this monstrosity. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-04-28 04:23 am UTC (link)
	I remember the 'Discowing' outfit, but not the Elvis Presley in Vegas or the feathery one. Have you examples of these? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ladymirth 2009-04-28 04:31 am UTC (link)
	He wears the Elvis outfit in Nightwing Year One (issues #101 to #107). I saw the feathers one in an old S_D post but the suit he wore in Teen Titans #33 has yellow metal "feathers" as actual wings. It gets destroyed en route, thankfully. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-04-28 04:36 am UTC (link)
	I didn't even know there WAS a 'Nightwing: Year One'. Ah, well - I suppose there's a Year One for just about everybody these days, isn't there? (Although technically, a 'Nightwing: Year One' should really be a 'Robin: Year One', which there also has been. Naughty, naughty, DC.) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

ladymirth
2009-04-28 04:44 am UTC (link)

Not really. Nightwing Year One is about how he got fired by Batman and created his own NW identity, whereas Robin Y1 is about his first year as Robin with the whole Two-Face and Shrike debacles.

You might like Nightwing Year One. Lots of cute Babsgirl/Nightwing moments, Bats messes up hilariously, Alfred is awesome and Jason annoys the hell out of Dick. Real cute. I liked it more than Robin: Year One.

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	psychop_rex 2009-04-28 03:51 pm UTC (link)
	Well, I think I'll start with the Robin one, which I haven't read yet, but I'll keep the recommendation in mind; thanks. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	xdoop 2009-04-28 06:09 am UTC (link)
	It ran as an arc from NW #101-106. (Reply to this) (Parent)

sistermagpie
2009-04-28 09:09 am UTC (link)

I never remember this well, but didn't DKSA address that possible homophobic fear in a sort of violent way with Dick and Catgirl?

I don't actually think there would be a big deal about a girl showing her legs in the 40s. Wonder Woman showed her legs. I think it was far more an issue of nobody considering putting a girl in the role. Not only would a grown man not run around with a young girl as a friend, the idea would be for boy readers to identify as Robin.

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psychop_rex
2009-04-28 04:10 pm UTC (link)

True enough - it's a fascinating subject, really. Before the rise of homosexuality in the public consciousness, there were a good deal of comics, and stories in general, that dealt with close male friendships and partnerships. Batman and Robin are a good example, as are Tintin and Captain Haddock, Green Arrow and Speedy, the Spirit and Ebony, Wash Tubbs and Captain Easy, etc., etc. Nowadays, these get dissected all to hell, and everyone automatically assumes 'Gay!', which I personally think is a terrible shame. Close, platonic friendship is a wonderful thing, and it can lead to some terrific adventures - I certainly have no problem with sex or gay relationships (would I be on this board if I were?), but their rise in the public eye means that every close friendship comes under intense scrutiny - 'are they gettin' it on' becomes the primary question. Sex, sex, sex - we're all obsessed with sex, and this obsession blinds us to some of the deeper and more rewarding spectrums of human relationships. It's not a facet of the human mind that I'm particularly fond of.

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