InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "mow!"

drsevarius (drsevarius) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-04-27 09:01:00

Entry tags:

char: batman/bruce wayne, char: catwoman/selina kyle, char: joker, char: robin/catgirl/carrie kelly, creator: frank miller, series: bat/cat, title: the dark knight returns

Bat/Cat: The Dark Knight Returns

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icon_uk
2009-04-27 01:03 pm UTC (link)

In this dark DC future there were no ideal heroes around to motivate and inspire people to rise above their own selfish needs. Even with Superman around (although working in a clandestine fashion). The heroes bowed out, and the standards of quality of life and moral code represented better by the Flash, the Green Lantern and Diana went down the toilet.

Except IIRC we never find out WHY. Batman giving up is his choice (presumably after Jason's fate, and even that was left vague in DKR) and Superman went "politically hamstrung". Where were all the OTHER heroes in this? Wonder Woman, the Titans, the JSA and the like?

It was when the news reporters mentioned that the cities of the United States were in chaos in the nuclear winter, there was ONE city where people could walk safely down the streets. Where the rebelling youth of our future were guided out of the gutter and darkness by one man.

I'm a Batman fan, I'm a BIG Batman fan, he's one man in one city, that works, but to suggest that he's the ONLY man, in ANY city, is just not impressive storytelling.

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sherkahn
2009-04-27 01:35 pm UTC (link)

**Except IIRC we never find out WHY. Batman giving up is his choice (presumably after Jason's fate, and even that was left vague in DKR) and Superman went "politically hamstrung". Where were all the OTHER heroes in this? Wonder Woman, the Titans, the JSA and the like?
**

The government outlawed them.

**I'm a Batman fan, I'm a BIG Batman fan, he's one man in one city, that works, but to suggest that he's the ONLY man, in ANY city, is just not impressive storytelling.**

I interpret that whole entire scene. Before Supes stopped the nuke, the most dangerous city in fictional reagan era US was Gotham. When the crap hit the fan, the most dangerous city in the DC US became the safest city. Not because law and order was being enforced, or that the "system worked" or that good people decided to help one another. Rather, it was because Batman was bringing the city under his control and his rules, not the rules of the decaying, corrupt America. And the nation looked to Gotham as an example to lead them out of the crisis. It works because this is no ordinary man. No one else in America, at the time, could do what he can do. Because he is Batman.

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	icon_uk 2009-04-27 02:45 pm UTC (link)
	The government outlawed them. Yeah, because that stopped them from being vigilantes so often before. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-04-28 02:11 am UTC (link)
	Well, it HAS, actually, to some degree - remember, it's still in continuity (I think - it was, anyway) that when Congress ordered the JSA to either reveal their secret identities or disband, they went the disbanding route, and didn't get back together for a number of years. Something similar may have happened in DKR. (Reply to this) (Parent)

sistermagpie
2009-04-27 02:37 pm UTC (link)

And not only superheroes--how about regular people? For all the kids involved in school shootings there's many more involved in charitable work trying to better the world.

Sure there are ways one could say life today is darker--there are also many ways in which life today is less dark. It always depends on the person which way they look at things. Plus I haven't read this in a while, but it doesn't sound like this Batman is so inspiring he'd make a very good role model.

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	icon_uk 2009-04-27 02:50 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, crap has been happening for a long time, we just hear about it more, and it's all that the media reports when it DOES happen. As you say, the vast majority of folks are fairly decent, law abiding people. There was a recent article I read about something which can only be described as the rise of hebephobia (Reply to this) (Parent)

kamino_neko
2009-04-27 03:33 pm UTC (link)

Wonder Woman, the Titans, the JSA and the like?

To be fair, this was written in 1986, so Batman and the JSA weren't actually in the same continuity at the time. (Would have either come out during, or too close after Crisis for the changes made to have an effect.) So, only 2/3 of those are actually MISSING.

However, the Titans and most of the rest of the JLA being missing are big points - only Superman is mentioned, and only the Flashes are explicable, given the circumstances at the time of writing (at the time, Barry was missing and Wally was enough of an emotional and physical wreck that he could have ended up permanently out of the game, instead of taking Barry's place). But then there's Wondie, the Lanterns, the non-Robin/Flash Titans, Green gods-be-damned Arrow, for flip's sake. There's no reason for all of them to be out of the game. Hal and Ollie, particularly, I don't buy the 'they were outlawed!' part. Hard Travelling Heroes was still a fresh memory at this point, and that Hal and Ollie - well, any post O'Neil Ollie, but that Hal - I can see being 'screw the rules, I have ~~green clothes~~what's right on my side'.

It makes sense, from a writing standpoint that Miller would ignore them - his story doesn't work if they're still on the beat, and only a handful of them can be plausibly explained (and I don't buy his explanation for Superman, which is another problem I have with it - while the Post-Crisis Superman is 'mine', I don't buy it for the pre-Crisis, either) as out of it, so he just ignores them.

Which is a problem in itself, since there are too many things that suggest this isn't a world that was ever lacking in heroes.

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	enerprime 2009-04-27 05:45 pm UTC (link)
	Well, for Ollie, we see in DKR that he was off somewhere with only one arm. I think something is also mentioned about GA being locked up and breaking out as well. (Reply to this) (Parent)

ashtoreth
2009-04-27 10:37 pm UTC (link)

In DKSA Hal is revealed to have fallen in love with an alien woman (amusingly, she looks like a blob) and had a son. He returns only briefly when Batman asks him back. (And if you ever wanted to see Hal the God, that's it. Considering that ASBAR is roughly early continuity to this universe, it's an interesting character arc there..y'know, if you're obsessed with that sort of thing)

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sailorlibra
2009-04-27 04:22 pm UTC (link)

Where were all the OTHER heroes in this? Wonder Woman, the Titans, the JSA and the like?

Wonder Woman was off on her lovely man-free island of paradise, despising men and having earth-shattering sex with Superman.

Honestly, this is Frank Miller, even if it's Frank Miller back in the better days. WOMEN=WHORES has pretty much always been one of his mantras and expecting him to change it for a teensy little reason like coherency is only something that will leave you disappointed.

No, I don't like Frank Miller, thanks for asking.

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	bluefall 2009-04-27 05:10 pm UTC (link)
	despising men and having earth-shattering sex with Superman. I still want to know how the fuck that's supposed to work. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kamino_neko 2009-04-27 07:27 pm UTC (link)
	Forget it, Blue, it's Millertown. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bluefall 2009-04-27 10:14 pm UTC (link)
	... truefax. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jlbarnett 2009-04-27 09:20 pm UTC (link)
	human men. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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