InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "The dog farted"

queenursula (queenursula) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-09 22:25:00

Entry tags:

char: despero, char: starro the conqueror, creator: karl moline, creator: tony bedard

Starro vs Despero

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	(Anonymous) 2009-10-10 09:20 am UTC (link)
	I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. Hasn't Starro always been an alien conquerer? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-10-10 12:00 pm UTC (link)

Not like this. Starro's major trait was it's sheer... alien-ness. It showed up, it took people over with face-star's and rarely bothered to explain it's actions because it never really had to, it was part invasion, part infestation.

Now they're giving him a mouth, an explanation, a human(oid) form, and other things which haven't been required for the past nearly 50 years.

It's like introducing the Borg Queen, which flowed counter to every concept of the Borg we'd seen (They were a true collective, a true collective does not have an over-ruling voice), but was used to make them more of a comprehensible villain, but at the same time giving them an Achilles heel for the good guys.

I have no issue with revamping a character, but make the revamp worth the effort. I'm not sure this is, though I'm sure we'll get a bit where the Starro separates itself, no longer needing the human host, or somesuch.

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timemonkey
2009-10-10 06:11 pm UTC (link)

The Borg Queen works just fine. She IS the collective, she's just the higher functions of the hive mind. Remember, the Borg are not a natural hive, they're artificial so each layer has to be created, the basic hive runs on it's primary objectives, find new stuff, assimilate what's useffull and destroy threats. When greater thinking is required you have the Queen, who is unlikely to be a unique entity, she dies often enough that either any drone can be upgraded to fill th roll or there's just a group of them.

Think about it, why else would they have turned Picard into Locutus unless there was already a niche for him to occupy? The Queen just fills that role in other important areas.

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	icon_uk 2009-10-10 07:32 pm UTC (link)
	Locutus was a mouthpiece for the collective, designed to unsettle the Federation by his existence he had no individual role beyond that. The queen on the other hand was able to casually over-rule tactical decisions made by the Borg Collective, making her individuality more important than the Collective, which is NOT as it should be. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

timemonkey
2009-10-10 07:36 pm UTC (link)

Not necessarily, she could just be different levels of thought. The basic Collective instant says "Assimilate now?" the Queen analysis the situation and decides yes or no.

There has to be something driving the collective, they force billions of minds into it against their will, on it's own it'd self destruct very quickly.

The Borg were never what we like to think about them, they just appeared that way because we knew nothing of them. Hell, for all we know the Queen is the collective wills of the original Borg, the ones that started on this mission.

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	icon_uk 2009-10-11 12:40 pm UTC (link)
	If the Borg Queen can over-ride the will of the Collective, then it's not a Collective, it's a Dictatorship, and god knows the federation faces enough of those. And it doesn't fall apart because all the drones are programmed to be part of the Collective, it can't fall apart because there are no individuals to disrupt it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

timemonkey
2009-10-11 01:04 pm UTC (link)

No, just different, artificially created, levels of the same mind. They are not billions of voices working as one, they are billions of voices forced into submission by some undefined force.

The Queen has stated very clearly that she IS the Collective, not rules it, not controlls it, she IS it. She might just be an avatar for the Collective as a whole, or like I said before, the will of the orginal Borg species. Notice how neither Picard nor Seven are aware of the Queen until they face her outside the Collective? Possibly because she's not an individual entity but something more.

But in the end it remains, the Borg are not what we thought they were and while we don't know what exactly that is it is not exactly a dictatorship either.

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icon_uk
2009-10-11 02:04 pm UTC (link)

They are not billions of voices working as one, they are billions of voices forced into submission by some undefined force.

Forced into submission AND working as one, governed as we repeatedly informed, by the overwhelming desire to expand and assimilate.

To be frank, Locutus was not aware of the Queen because of the lurching great big "WTF?" that the whole notion of the Borg Queen was to the concept of the Borg Collective when she was introduced seven years later.

As soon as they introduced her, not only did the Borg get infinitely less scary, since they had a figurehead whose defeat would stop their plans though they seem not to miss her when she dies repeaedly, but they gained a human(oid) fallibility when she starts doign things like dicking around with Data.

And if she IS the Collective whey do we repeatedly have drones and the Collective telling her things, if she's the Collective, then she should know already, plus if she IS the Collective she serves no useful narrative purpose that couldn't be served by a disembodied voice.

Sorry, but when you need to get to the level of "they are not what we think they are", when all they've done for half a dozen years is tell us what they are at every opportunity ie a Collective which assimilates, and where no drone is irreplaceable or more important than any other, then suddenly one of them IS, then you've changed the fundamental concept to the extent of, IMHO obviously, derailing it.

They are no longer the scary, impersonal, Collective, they're just another alien armada with a sexily clad chick in charge. Been there, done that...

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	timemonkey 2009-10-11 02:08 pm UTC (link)
	Mileage varies, I don't think the Queen lessened things in the least. As they were the Borg were a one trick pony who were very repetetive. And since we don't know the true nature of the Queen we still can't judge them as a race. (Reply to this) (Parent)

zordboy
2009-10-10 12:30 pm UTC (link)

What Icon said. We have Despero (at least, from the neck down), Darkseid, Kanjar Ro, Mongul, a least a dozen GL and JLA villains, and now Starro has been reduced to one more in the long line.

I don't believe the guy needed the revamp, not at all. He worked just fine as an alien starfish. And I have my fingers-crossed that the status quo will be restored after this is over.

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