InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Thunk."

queenursula (queenursula) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-09 22:25:00

Entry tags:

char: despero, char: starro the conqueror, creator: karl moline, creator: tony bedard

Starro vs Despero

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	volksjager 2009-10-10 02:38 am UTC (link)
	Oh, I was going to post the bit about "daughter of the storm". I thought her origin was chilling. This is a great book people. Pick it up ! (Reply to this)

	jlbarnett 2009-10-10 02:48 am UTC (link)
	despero for a bizarre and unnecessary alteration of Starro? Yeah, this'll stick. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	thanekos 2009-10-10 02:52 am UTC (link)
	Well, it's either that, or this takes place after this Adventure Comics Legion backup preview.. ... hmm, a Despero/Saturn Girl mental battle. There's a thought. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	pyrotwilight 2009-10-10 02:59 am UTC (link)
	Hey look! A new Black Lantern! (Reply to this)

	ian_karkull 2009-10-10 03:02 am UTC (link)
	Starro could best Despero in a mental contest any time of the day, no questions asked. The Star Conqueror has billion minds and voices to draw from, where Despero has but one. Still, Despero is too good a villain to pass up, so he will return in about six months. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	pyrotwilight 2009-10-10 03:04 am UTC (link)
	Or less, the REBELs blackest night tie in is fairly soon after all. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	pyrotwilight 2009-10-10 03:06 am UTC (link)
	Granted what really makes it interesting is when you remeber how Wanda in JLA/Avengers defeated Starro. This means Wanda's chaotic mind is that much more powerful than Starro's trillions of minds. (Though you could also say that the Starro there was separated perhaps and not able to access it's enslaved minds for power.) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

crinosg
2009-10-10 03:54 am UTC (link)

Its probably not so much that Wanda's mind is powerful, its just that its so chaotic its practically poison to a control freak like Starro. Like giving chocolate to a dog; we can eat it no problem, but a single bar will put old rover right in the ground.

Just think of Starro as a wire hair terrier and Wanda's brain is like one of those foot tall chocolate bunnies you get at Easter.

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	ian_karkull 2009-10-10 05:11 am UTC (link)
	I'm not gona lie, Wanda (or maybe Emma Frost) vs. Starro in a no-holds-barred telepathic struggle in trippy Steranko or Ditko-Style would be the best thing ever. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-10-10 12:04 pm UTC (link)
	Starro posessing Zatanna versus Wanda possessed by the Serpent Crown... who'd win? :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

crinosg
2009-10-10 03:43 am UTC (link)

Ah yes; quick and easy way to make your new Villain look badass and threatening? Have him come in and effortlessly pound a already existing villain into the dirt with precisely no effort.

Which, I gotta say, works for me. And its not like decapitation will keep him down. Despero has survived way worse.

And I have to say, I am liking Starro the Barbarian more and more. All he needs now is a voiceover from Mako and he'll be aces (and sadly, that shall never be *sad panda*).

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zordboy
2009-10-10 09:06 am UTC (link)

Oh, Despero will be back in five minutes. There's no question of that.

If this story is even acknowledged in a year's time (and personally I'd rather it be forgotten about entirely), we'll hear that decapitation is *not* fatal to whatever-alien-race Despero belongs to, merely somewhat inconvenient. Whatever.

Now, I enjoy the brief glimpse inside Starro's mind, but really? Nothing about this -- ham-fisted retcon of turning one of the most original and unique characters into DC's 1,000,000th alien conquerer -- is worth my time. And I'll be pretending it doesn't exist. *nods*

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	(Anonymous) 2009-10-10 09:20 am UTC (link)
	I'm afraid I don't know what you mean. Hasn't Starro always been an alien conquerer? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-10-10 12:00 pm UTC (link)

Not like this. Starro's major trait was it's sheer... alien-ness. It showed up, it took people over with face-star's and rarely bothered to explain it's actions because it never really had to, it was part invasion, part infestation.

Now they're giving him a mouth, an explanation, a human(oid) form, and other things which haven't been required for the past nearly 50 years.

It's like introducing the Borg Queen, which flowed counter to every concept of the Borg we'd seen (They were a true collective, a true collective does not have an over-ruling voice), but was used to make them more of a comprehensible villain, but at the same time giving them an Achilles heel for the good guys.

I have no issue with revamping a character, but make the revamp worth the effort. I'm not sure this is, though I'm sure we'll get a bit where the Starro separates itself, no longer needing the human host, or somesuch.

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timemonkey
2009-10-10 06:11 pm UTC (link)

The Borg Queen works just fine. She IS the collective, she's just the higher functions of the hive mind. Remember, the Borg are not a natural hive, they're artificial so each layer has to be created, the basic hive runs on it's primary objectives, find new stuff, assimilate what's useffull and destroy threats. When greater thinking is required you have the Queen, who is unlikely to be a unique entity, she dies often enough that either any drone can be upgraded to fill th roll or there's just a group of them.

Think about it, why else would they have turned Picard into Locutus unless there was already a niche for him to occupy? The Queen just fills that role in other important areas.

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	icon_uk 2009-10-10 07:32 pm UTC (link)
	Locutus was a mouthpiece for the collective, designed to unsettle the Federation by his existence he had no individual role beyond that. The queen on the other hand was able to casually over-rule tactical decisions made by the Borg Collective, making her individuality more important than the Collective, which is NOT as it should be. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

timemonkey
2009-10-10 07:36 pm UTC (link)

Not necessarily, she could just be different levels of thought. The basic Collective instant says "Assimilate now?" the Queen analysis the situation and decides yes or no.

There has to be something driving the collective, they force billions of minds into it against their will, on it's own it'd self destruct very quickly.

The Borg were never what we like to think about them, they just appeared that way because we knew nothing of them. Hell, for all we know the Queen is the collective wills of the original Borg, the ones that started on this mission.

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	icon_uk 2009-10-11 12:40 pm UTC (link)
	If the Borg Queen can over-ride the will of the Collective, then it's not a Collective, it's a Dictatorship, and god knows the federation faces enough of those. And it doesn't fall apart because all the drones are programmed to be part of the Collective, it can't fall apart because there are no individuals to disrupt it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

timemonkey
2009-10-11 01:04 pm UTC (link)

No, just different, artificially created, levels of the same mind. They are not billions of voices working as one, they are billions of voices forced into submission by some undefined force.

The Queen has stated very clearly that she IS the Collective, not rules it, not controlls it, she IS it. She might just be an avatar for the Collective as a whole, or like I said before, the will of the orginal Borg species. Notice how neither Picard nor Seven are aware of the Queen until they face her outside the Collective? Possibly because she's not an individual entity but something more.

But in the end it remains, the Borg are not what we thought they were and while we don't know what exactly that is it is not exactly a dictatorship either.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

icon_uk
2009-10-11 02:04 pm UTC (link)

They are not billions of voices working as one, they are billions of voices forced into submission by some undefined force.

Forced into submission AND working as one, governed as we repeatedly informed, by the overwhelming desire to expand and assimilate.

To be frank, Locutus was not aware of the Queen because of the lurching great big "WTF?" that the whole notion of the Borg Queen was to the concept of the Borg Collective when she was introduced seven years later.

As soon as they introduced her, not only did the Borg get infinitely less scary, since they had a figurehead whose defeat would stop their plans though they seem not to miss her when she dies repeaedly, but they gained a human(oid) fallibility when she starts doign things like dicking around with Data.

And if she IS the Collective whey do we repeatedly have drones and the Collective telling her things, if she's the Collective, then she should know already, plus if she IS the Collective she serves no useful narrative purpose that couldn't be served by a disembodied voice.

Sorry, but when you need to get to the level of "they are not what we think they are", when all they've done for half a dozen years is tell us what they are at every opportunity ie a Collective which assimilates, and where no drone is irreplaceable or more important than any other, then suddenly one of them IS, then you've changed the fundamental concept to the extent of, IMHO obviously, derailing it.

They are no longer the scary, impersonal, Collective, they're just another alien armada with a sexily clad chick in charge. Been there, done that...

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	timemonkey 2009-10-11 02:08 pm UTC (link)
	Mileage varies, I don't think the Queen lessened things in the least. As they were the Borg were a one trick pony who were very repetetive. And since we don't know the true nature of the Queen we still can't judge them as a race. (Reply to this) (Parent)

zordboy
2009-10-10 12:30 pm UTC (link)

What Icon said. We have Despero (at least, from the neck down), Darkseid, Kanjar Ro, Mongul, a least a dozen GL and JLA villains, and now Starro has been reduced to one more in the long line.

I don't believe the guy needed the revamp, not at all. He worked just fine as an alien starfish. And I have my fingers-crossed that the status quo will be restored after this is over.

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	skjam 2009-10-10 07:55 pm UTC (link)
	I am minded of the page in Trinity where Despero is about to leap into the vacuum of space, a minion suggests using life support, and Despero proclaims, "Air? Air is for cowards!" (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	zordboy 2009-10-11 12:50 am UTC (link)
	Exactly. When you're dealing with an alien being who's physically enhanced enough to the point that he can throwdown with the Justice League and hold his own (although that was his very best showing), I'm thinking decapitation would end more as a minor injury than anything else. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ex_menagerie993 2009-10-10 08:34 pm UTC (link)
	I like the writing in general, but for the most part, this. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	foxhack 2009-10-10 01:59 pm UTC (link)
	I still don't like this Gary Starro. (Reply to this)

thatnickguy
2009-10-10 02:27 pm UTC (link)

Hey, why is Skeletor possessed by Starro?

Seriously, why bother with this generic remake of an already great villain? It's a GIANT FRIGGING STARFISH that controls minds. That's already an original concept. Comics give writers and artists the chance to do ANYTHING with an unlimited budget and they go with...a generic galactic overlord that would just be some guy in a Skeletor costume? Screw that noise.

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	thanekos 2009-10-10 02:48 pm UTC (link)
	look at it this way- if you like the Omega Men, you'll get to see them have a crack at New!Starro. (Psions of Vega hired'em for the job...) (Reply to this)

	I am reminded of this barnesarama 2009-10-10 11:18 pm UTC (link)
	Starfish Hitler (Reply to this)

	toby_wan_kenobi 2009-10-11 02:00 am UTC (link)
	Question, folks- is there any reason that a writer couldn't very, very easily write that this dude who controls nine galaxies is just a fraction of the Real Starro's control zone? (Reply to this) (Thread)

01d55
2009-10-12 03:25 am UTC (link)

Later in this issue (see previous S_D post) shows that this Starro guy is actually the consequence of a very young Starro core attacking an individual member of a psychically linked race. Short story shorter, dude dominates the mind of the young queen, but the experience prompts a shift from pacifism to "conquer everything" and an adoption of the name Starro.

So we already have an out in that he's an anomalous divergence from the normal Starro life-cycle.

(Reply to this) (Parent)