InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "nothing from nowhere"

connor baird is an (ungeist) wrote in doors,
@ 2012-09-15 23:15:00

Entry tags:

beast, huntress, john blake, nightcrawler, pepper potts, persian, rose red, thor

[public]
[As 'Nightcrawler']

There is a vast community here, I see, of many types of people. I wish to know what you think about forgiveness. When it can be offered, that is, and what it means to give it. Whether it can help the person who forgives as well as the forgiven. I know what God says on this matter, but I would like to hear what man says, as well.

(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

	withpurpose 2012-09-16 04:42 am UTC (link)
	Confession. Therein lies the problem. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ungeist 2012-09-16 04:48 am UTC (link)
	What problem is there in confessing? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	withpurpose 2012-09-16 04:49 am UTC (link)
	Confessing implies that one accepts that one acknowledges the wrongness of their actions. It's not an easy thing to do. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ungeist 2012-09-16 04:51 am UTC (link)
	Of course. But to be forgiven, one must know one has done wrong, mustn't they? Otherwise, absolution is only words. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	withpurpose 2012-09-16 04:54 am UTC (link)
	And if one does not feel they deserve forgiveness? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ungeist 2012-09-16 04:55 am UTC (link)
	Then that is a horse of a different color, or a sin of a different name, I suppose. It begs another question - are you forgiven if you reject forgiveness? If you cannot bring yourself to accept forgiveness for your actions, is the deed still wiped clean? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	withpurpose 2012-09-16 05:01 am UTC (link)
	I do not think that is possible. If one does not confess, then forgiveness means nothing. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ungeist 2012-09-16 05:09 am UTC (link)
	But it is possible to confess and not think oneself worthy of forgiveness. That is what I am asking. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	withpurpose 2012-09-16 05:11 am UTC (link)
	Why else would one confess if not to be forgiven? No, I do not think it is possible. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

ungeist
2012-09-16 05:18 am UTC (link)

I will tell you one example I know. In the place where I was raised, there was a rough gentleman who made his money displaying great feats of strength. One afternoon, he did not secure his weights as he lifted them, and they came loose, killing a man who stood too close. He did not need to tell anyone that it was his own error that had led to the man's death. He could have blamed the old weights, or the men who paid him, for not buying new ones. But he confessed that the death was his fault, and was imprisoned for his negligence. He said he did this thing not because he wanted forgiveness, because he did not feel he deserved it. He confessed because to be punished for what he did was right. He did not expect absolution. Now, this man, were the family of the dead man to forgive him, would he be clean again? Or would he remain stained, because he found himself undeserving?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	withpurpose 2012-09-16 05:20 am UTC (link)
	Forgiveness is nothing if the person to whom it is given does not want it. So the man would remain stained, because he does not feel he deserves it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ungeist 2012-09-16 05:20 am UTC (link)
	Interesting. I imagine he would say the same. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	withpurpose 2012-09-16 05:22 am UTC (link)
	It's interesting, that he would confess for punishment. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ungeist 2012-09-16 05:26 am UTC (link)
	His guilt clearly weighed on him. I think to be punished was a relief. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	withpurpose 2012-09-16 05:27 am UTC (link)
	What if one is afraid of punishment? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ungeist 2012-09-16 05:32 am UTC (link)
	Mein freund, there is no cure for cowardice but bravery. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	withpurpose 2012-09-16 05:33 am UTC (link)
	You call it cowardice? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ungeist 2012-09-16 05:34 am UTC (link)
	To fear punishment when you know you have done wrong? Yes, cowardice is what makes that fear. But it is also natural. Every sinner fears the fire. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	withpurpose 2012-09-16 05:36 am UTC (link)
	I feel like it would be hard to live like that. In cowardice. One would always feel as though something is waiting around every corner. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ungeist 2012-09-16 05:40 am UTC (link)
	It would be. I could not bear it, and so I understand why the man I knew chose to turn himself in. I do not think all crimes need be punished by the state, and punishment does not guarantee forgiveness. But one way or another, such debts are paid in the end. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	withpurpose 2012-09-16 05:44 am UTC (link)
	[...] You've given me a lot to think on. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ungeist 2012-09-16 05:45 am UTC (link)
	I hope this is a good thing? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Micah/Nightcrawler withpurpose 2012-09-16 05:47 am UTC (link)
	This conversation hit a bit closer to home than I was initially prepared for, that is all. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Micah/Nightcrawler -

ungeist, 2012-09-16 10:31 pm UTC

Re: Micah/Nightcrawler -

withpurpose, 2012-09-17 02:49 am UTC

	ex_published349 2012-09-16 07:21 am UTC (link)
	Me, I think it's kind of funny you figure the guy has it better off. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)