Tweak

InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "I'm happily childfree. "

Fingolfin | Ñolofinwë Aracáno (nolofinwe) wrote in compass_network,
@ 2013-06-30 18:50:00

Entry tags:

!open, maryanne walker (oe), ~clint barton (comic)

I must say that I am glad that Vinyamar is on the sea, as these hot days set in.

And I should like to say again that all but the dragonriders and their beasts are free to use the beaches around Vinyamar as it pleases them. Please, keep yourselves cool. Mortal bodies are so weak.

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turukano
2013-07-01 03:30 am UTC (link)

Forgive me, father, for interrupting. ~~I know~~

Vinyamar reaches down to the sea, Lady Maryanne, it's protected by a sea wall. I designed it that way. My family neither seeks to control the seas nor the land others dwell on, but limit who crosses Vinyamar's borders uninvited.

We have a right to privacy as surely as those who dwell in the city do. That's what my father speaks of.

~~Please don't look for a fight with him.~~

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maryanne_walker
2013-07-01 03:50 am UTC (link)

I'll concede that point. If anyone came into Honolulu Height's garden uninvited they'd be met with tooth and claw. Questions would come after.

You might want to counsel him on this 'mortal' bullshit. I'm not the only one that's tired of hearing it. And I'm not the only one whose emotions are being held back by a tiny thread. And an unleashed emotion like anger, can be very dangerous thing.

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turukano
2013-07-01 03:57 am UTC (link)

As is your right to defend your home.

It isn't my place to counsel my father on anything. But you need not resort to such threats, I assure you. I don't understand the offense humans take at the descriptor 'mortal.' As it is descriptor and not a defining characteristic. We do not take offense at being called 'immortal' as it were, though there are some among us who have given up their immortality. Or 'elvish' instead of 'Noldor.' They are only terms.

If you could explain to me, perhaps?

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	like_a_hawk 2013-07-01 04:00 am UTC (link)
	Saying we're mortal ain't what she's pissed about, saying we're inherently weak only because we're mortal is what gets us mad. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

turukano
2013-07-01 04:04 am UTC (link)

You aren't weak in spirit by any means, but compared to other immortals--not only the elves--you are weak in body. You die of sickness. Did not the healers just call to have you all given vaccinations? We do not need those things, we are immune to them.

That isn't a slight against you, but a truth. I know there are extraordinary humans on this island and in other worlds. The terms don't include them.

And in turn, elves are capable of dying of grief, dying of battle wounds. Is that not also weakness? It's relative.

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like_a_hawk
2013-07-01 04:13 am UTC (link)

Even if that's true you have no right to look down on us because of it. We're all living beings who will do everything we can to keep this place we've all been shoved on to as livable as possible and if you discredit an entire population just because you think you're better because of some weakness or lack there of you're going to end up in trouble.
So if you want to think us weak go ahead, we're never going to agree on that, but if you think that we should be counted out and viewed as nothing because of it you're going to be in a world of hurt the next time this island wants to make something attack it. Because I know we helped with those robots.
Not to mention the fact that those of us who are extraordinary, like Maryanne or Cap or hell even Wilson, are more often than not grouped in to the same title as people like me who are 'normal' humans if only because they live in the city or look like us.

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turukano
2013-07-01 04:18 am UTC (link)

Forgive me, I'll backtrack and re-iterate. Calling you mortal isn't a judgment on your worth, or your skills. It's a descriptor. Some of you are mortal, but being mortal doesn't make you inherently weak. You have proven that, as you say, time and again.

And we knew it well before we came here, as Men have fought in our wars at our sides, and have long been our friends.

Many of us don't understand the hostility between the kindreds. Mortal isn't worse than 'immortal.' We don't use it to belittle you.

Save perhaps the Lord Maedhros, but his reasons are deep, and my mother has never met a mortal before coming here.

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like_a_hawk
2013-07-01 04:25 am UTC (link)

You say you don't mean it as a judgement but the way it's used, very often does. Even up there, there was no need to point out any kind of weakness, he could have just said stay safe and cool. None of us would have been bothered by it, but pointing out our weakness makes it judgement. It makes it seem like he doesn't believe we're so weak we can barely survive on our own. Which isn't the case.
If you want to have those feelings, fine, I'm not trying to make anyone change their mind because I know I'm not eloquent enough or able to stay clear headed long enough to do that. But if you, or any one else does have those opinions, keep them to yourselves, we don't need or want the constant reminder that many of your people think you're better than we are.

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turukano
2013-07-01 04:41 am UTC (link)

We don't have those feelings. It's.. grievous that we have presented ourselves that way. My only daughter married a mortal man. ~~If we thought less of you he would have nowhere near her.~~

I'm doing a poor job of explaining. ~~Forgive me I ramble.~~ If you bear with me while I-

[...]

Men have been in the world for little over three hundred years in our understanding. And admittedly three hundred years is no time at all when you reach our ages.

But the point, truly, is that we the Exiled Noldor have extended our hands in friendship to mortal Men and have aided them since their dawn of existence. We have showed Men civilization and helped build their own. We do not think less of you. Mortal men are our brothers and sisters. The only thing that separates us are the fates of our spirits.

You go onward and we do not.

We have ten thousand years of history before Men come into existence. Tell me.. tell me how we might forget that? How we might conceive of ourselves in comparison to such a younger race as Men?

Tell me how immortal beings might change ideas they've had of themselves for ten thousand years?

Is it easier for men to change their ideologies? To change their thoughts? I don't know many Men. I knew but two before Tuor came into my city. He is the third I have ever known. Men confuse me a lot of the time.

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like_a_hawk
2013-07-01 04:49 am UTC (link)

I'm not telling you to change the way you feel or the way you look at us. I know I'll never be able to do it. I'm just asking you to watch the way you express it a little more. Because obviously if none of you feel that way but we think you do something is wrong with the way your kin are expressing their opinions. If there's no need to point out a weakness, or to point out your superiority, don't. That simple change will make interaction a lot easier.

And we're a lot older than 300 now.

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	turukano 2013-07-01 04:52 am UTC (link)
	I'll certainly take your words into consideration. I don't mean to offend anyone either. But often it's hard to know what to say. There are many.. sensitivities I and my kin are unfamiliar with. I do not speak for my family, as it were, but I will share the message with them as I can. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

like_a_hawk
2013-07-01 05:00 am UTC (link)

Thank you.

And I realize that some of the issue may be our part, humans have been around about 140,000 years now and since day one we've had a tendency to isolate and hate those we don't look or act like. They call it discrimination and I think we've maybe become sensitive to it because It's been such a major part of our culture for many hundreds of years. And discrimination comes down, most often, to things we have no choice of, the color of our skin or they type of person we love so when we feel like we're being looked down on for something we have no choice or control over, there's a very real and very strong emotional response. So I apologize if maybe we've made the wrong conclusions too.

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turukano, 2013-07-01 05:05 am UTC

like_a_hawk, 2013-07-01 05:13 am UTC

turukano, 2013-07-01 05:17 am UTC

like_a_hawk, 2013-07-01 05:29 am UTC

turukano, 2013-07-01 05:34 am UTC

like_a_hawk, 2013-07-01 05:39 am UTC

turukano, 2013-07-01 05:42 am UTC

like_a_hawk, 2013-07-01 06:15 am UTC

	Clint maryanne_walker 2013-07-01 04:23 am UTC (link)
	I think you're pretty damn extraordinary. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Maryanne like_a_hawk 2013-07-01 04:26 am UTC (link)
	Nah, not compared to half the people here. I'm fine with it. But... thanks. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Clint maryanne_walker 2013-07-01 04:37 am UTC (link)
	Come on, how many people here could shoot a tick off of a dog and never come close to touching the dog? I've heard you could do it blindfolded. And very few people can calm me down when my focus is off, enough for me to shift without having to strain my mind to do it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Maryanne like_a_hawk 2013-07-01 04:40 am UTC (link)
	A tick would be too small. Maybe a fly. Though I couldn't without my eyes anymore. I might be glad for that one though. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Clint maryanne_walker 2013-07-01 04:53 am UTC (link)
	Semantics. There's only one other that can do what you do, and he happens to be an alternate universe you. Oh yeah? Even if I had to tell you that I'm now sitting naked in the middle of the meadow, because of it? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Maryanne like_a_hawk 2013-07-01 05:18 am UTC (link)
	Well, I try not to hurt too many flies, apparently that's a sign of being a bad guy. Actually that might make it better. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

maryanne_walker, 2013-07-01 05:34 am UTC

like_a_hawk, 2013-07-01 05:41 am UTC

maryanne_walker, 2013-07-01 06:09 am UTC

like_a_hawk, 2013-07-01 06:13 am UTC

maryanne_walker, 2013-07-01 06:33 am UTC

like_a_hawk, 2013-07-01 07:15 am UTC

maryanne_walker, 2013-07-01 07:59 am UTC

like_a_hawk, 2013-07-01 08:07 am UTC

maryanne_walker, 2013-07-01 08:20 am UTC

maryanne_walker
2013-07-01 04:16 am UTC (link)

When it's used the way he used it, and the way others have used it, it's as insulting as calling someone by the color of their skin, or the shape of their ears. It's not the word that's insulting it's the way it's used. And the fact that he doesn't bother to even ask if we're mortal or immortals. He only assumes that we all are.

How can he know something that some of us aren't even sure of ourselves?

For instance, a year ago I was wounded by a dragon. I should have bled out and died. But I didn't. I still have the scars when all the other scars have left my body. Including tattoos.

Does that say I'm mortal or immortal?

Deadpool has been 'killed' thousands of times, if not millions. He's always found a way to pull himself back together. Same goes with Logan, who isn't here, and his clone Laura, who is.

But I digress. It isn't the point. I don't care how it stops, but it needs to stop. I've had it up to my eyeballs with the passing of discriminatory crap, I had to live with it at home, but I'm not going to live with it here.

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turukano
2013-07-01 04:27 am UTC (link)

I'm trying to understand. But I'm confused about why you would associate yourself with 'mortal' if you aren't. Or why anyone who isn't would, especially if it clearly isn't the case. The term wouldn't include them, would it?

I am not sure how a description is discriminatory. You may call me Noldor, and I will cede the point. You may call me Vanyar, and I will cede that point as well. It is what we are.

There are Rohirrim here as well, there are Gondorians. I don't understand.

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maryanne_walker
2013-07-01 04:46 am UTC (link)

Because what if I'm wrong? And do you know what an immortality complex does to a person? It's better for me to err on the 'I could die' side of things, than to err on the 'I might not die' do something rather stupid that would get me killed.

In this case he might as well be calling someone fat. If someone called you pointy ear wouldn't you be offended? I would never dream of offending you like that. I'm just saying for instance. And often mortals don't like to be reminded that they are in fact mortal. It's depressing.

The difference there is that the Rohirrim and Gondorians are still human.

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turukano
2013-07-01 04:50 am UTC (link)

No, I'm afraid I don't. My grandson had a choice, between immortality and mortality.

And no, I have pointy ears. It's a fact, and nothing will change that. I don't see the cause of being upset by someone pointing out the obvious. I'm not ashamed of having pointed ears. In fact, I rather like them. Though my grandson had muted tips on his ears and they were odd to see at first. But also the cause of much adoration when he was born.

I'm getting off track, apologies.

Do you know many elves envy a mortal's ability to die?

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maryanne_walker
2013-07-01 05:21 am UTC (link)

It does bad things for anything that isn't really immortal. A lot of tyrants thought themselves immortal, for instance.

Turgon, I'm beginning to wonder if anything would offend you. Not that I want to try. Your grandson's ears were adorable though.

Oh sugar, I understand, I'm southern, wandering off on tangents is almost a bred in trait.

I don't, besides what I read in books when I was young, I had no experience with elves. The only experience I've has been here. I can't say it's been a good experience, save for the three exceptions that go by the names of Turgon, Elenwe and Fingon.

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turukano
2013-07-01 05:26 am UTC (link)

My brother has his moments.

I didn't know many Men before coming here either. I knew but three. Húrin and his brother Huor, I had them in Gondolin for a single solar year before they.. died. And then Tuor the son of Huor came into my city.

Three Men.

I admit to not understanding any of the workings of Men. I can only imagine my mother's confusion. My daughter's. And she married Tuor. Nyara is very much the same. And the Lady Nerdanel has recently arrived.

We have not gotten a fair impression of humans either.

Speaking of which.

Is using the term of 'human' more or less offensive as using 'mortal' as it signifies essentially the same thing?

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maryanne_walker
2013-07-01 06:01 am UTC (link)

When you're talking to a human, probably not. When you're talking to something that isn't human it could go a few different ways: One they are highly flattered that they come off as at least appearing to be human, two it reminds them of the fact that they aren't human and it sends them into a spiral of depression, or it offends them, because they aren't human and they find a great deal of pride in what they actually are.

It's better to go with names, to be honest.

But with you and Elenwe, it's like the difference isn't there. Between us, I mean. I feel like I can talk to you as if we've known each other all our lives. Same goes with your wife. I mean I was talking shampoo with her the other day. Fingon... he comes off as if he could find beauty in almost anything.

The way the others treat everyone else... It rubs such a sore spot on me that I can't get beyond it and I can't see the want to get to know them individually.

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turukano, 2013-07-01 06:16 am UTC

maryanne_walker, 2013-07-01 07:36 am UTC

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