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Several different lines of argument are used to explain why Severus is behaving in ways that Harry takes as hostile. One is that Severus had to act this way to maintain his cover as Death Eater: That when Voldemort returned Severus could point to his treatment of Harry as evidence that he remained a true DE and was never influenced by Dumbledore's agenda (and this would be supported by the testament of sons of DEs in his class if needed). A different argument is that Severus has strict and demanding standards (both academic and behavioral) as a teacher and Harry repeatedly fails those, thus bringing upon himself sarcasm, wrath, loss of points and detentions, as the case may be. And of course the argument more common among non-fans of Severus, that from the moment Severus saw the physical resemblance between Harry and his father Severus started taking on Harry his unreconciled enmity towards James (whether consciously or unconsciously).
This relationship becomes mutually hostile and results in Harry and his friends mistrusting Severus time and again - when they thought he was cursing Harry's broom and trying to steal the Philosophers' Stone, in the Shrieking Shack in POA, when they went to the Ministry in OOTP despite having already delivered him what should have been a sufficient warning to the Order and when Harry suspects Severus is a party to Draco's plot in HBP (well, he was in a way, but not how Harry expected). Severus' outburst in the Shrieking Shack ("... I have just saved your neck; you should be thanking me on bended knee!...") shows that Severus was offended by this state of affairs, he really expected to be trusted by Harry.
If Severus' behavior was strategic, intending to act the DE part - why would he expect Harry to trust him? Or is it that since their relationship already had a hostile start (whether because of Harry's conduct as a student or because of Severus' unsettled account with James) Severus decided to use it as part of his justification to Voldemort and the DEs (as we see him do with Bellatrix in HBP)? Did Severus expect Harry, perhaps with the aid of more trusted authority figures such as Minerva or Albus, to see the protection beyond the wrath and snark?
How does Albus fit in? In the early books he contributes to the distrust between the two - in PS he says Severus saved Harry so he could hate James' memory in peace, in POA he blames Severus for the need to make a daring rescue of Sirius. But later Albus reassures Harry that Severus was never suspected with any Dark activity since the first war (GOF), tells him how Severus warned the Order and searched for Harry and his friends in the forest, refrains from mentioning Severus' part in the matter of the prophecy until Harry learns of it himself (OOTP vs HBP) and tells Harry again and again that he trusts Professor Snape (HBP). Yet in OOTP he also says he expected Severus to have gotten over the past enough to teach Harry Occlumency successfully. So did Albus initially think he was supporting Severus' cover story but changed gears when he saw things were going badly? Or was he deliberately preventing the reconciliation of undesired hostility because it served his own plots?
This relationship becomes mutually hostile and results in Harry and his friends mistrusting Severus time and again - when they thought he was cursing Harry's broom and trying to steal the Philosophers' Stone, in the Shrieking Shack in POA, when they went to the Ministry in OOTP despite having already delivered him what should have been a sufficient warning to the Order and when Harry suspects Severus is a party to Draco's plot in HBP (well, he was in a way, but not how Harry expected). Severus' outburst in the Shrieking Shack ("... I have just saved your neck; you should be thanking me on bended knee!...") shows that Severus was offended by this state of affairs, he really expected to be trusted by Harry.
If Severus' behavior was strategic, intending to act the DE part - why would he expect Harry to trust him? Or is it that since their relationship already had a hostile start (whether because of Harry's conduct as a student or because of Severus' unsettled account with James) Severus decided to use it as part of his justification to Voldemort and the DEs (as we see him do with Bellatrix in HBP)? Did Severus expect Harry, perhaps with the aid of more trusted authority figures such as Minerva or Albus, to see the protection beyond the wrath and snark?
How does Albus fit in? In the early books he contributes to the distrust between the two - in PS he says Severus saved Harry so he could hate James' memory in peace, in POA he blames Severus for the need to make a daring rescue of Sirius. But later Albus reassures Harry that Severus was never suspected with any Dark activity since the first war (GOF), tells him how Severus warned the Order and searched for Harry and his friends in the forest, refrains from mentioning Severus' part in the matter of the prophecy until Harry learns of it himself (OOTP vs HBP) and tells Harry again and again that he trusts Professor Snape (HBP). Yet in OOTP he also says he expected Severus to have gotten over the past enough to teach Harry Occlumency successfully. So did Albus initially think he was supporting Severus' cover story but changed gears when he saw things were going badly? Or was he deliberately preventing the reconciliation of undesired hostility because it served his own plots?
We are never shown anyone else getting caught doing the things Harry gets punished for. We don't know if Severus would have punished another Gryffindor or another Slytherin the same way. We do see in COS Slytherins getting away with tossing ingredients (and Harry thinks how unfair this is) - but in the same lesson Harry gets away with tossing a firecracker into a cauldron and actually causing an explosion and splashing students! Harry got away despite believing Severus knew it was him. Also, at least once we see Slytherins reserving misbehavior to when they are clearly out of his line of sight. So either the Slytherins expected to be punished if caught or they didn't want to embarrass Severus in a situation where letting them off would be too obviously unfair.
As for delivering the message - the trigger to deliver it was that Nagini be protected. The first time Severus saw Nagini under protection was already in the Shrieking Shack. We do not know if Severus made alternative arrangement - in any case his preference was to do it in person. But the message would have been delivered regardless of whether Severus prepared an alternate route of his own - via Albus' portrait and the other castle portraits if not by any other means. (Albus could move about the castle portrait frames until he could contact a ghost or a house-elf and tell them to tell Harry to meet him somewhere.) The only problem with that method would be that Albus would have had to face Harry before Harry could know he was going to survive, and that's a huge inconvenience to the Twinkly One. As headmaster Severus knew what the portraits were capable of, so he may have figured it out himself. But he preferred the direct and personal route because it allowed him to apologize to Harry via his memories.
(BTW summeriris, you may be interested in my latest attempts to untangle the mess that was Albus' endgame plan here).
summeriris
Back to your comment above. Yes, I know the trigger was to be when Nagini was in magical proection. That's plain enough. Now this isn't a poke at Snape, it's just an observation. Snape does not seem to have had a plan in place for when this happened. The times were perilous to say the least and Snape could not gaurantee his own safety never mind anyone elses. I think he should have had a plan in place, just in case. This has nothing to do with whether Snape was a good/bad man. I just think that there should have been a plan, just in case the worst happened.
If you're referring to a plan about how to communicate with Harry so that he would trust him and not shoot on sight: there's nothing to say he didn't have a plan ready that was interrupted by events (i.e. Voldemort deciding to murder him then and there, having to converse while bleeding to death) beyond his control and, given his incomprehension at Voldie's questions, also quite likely beyond anything he would have thought to expect. That is, he knew he was in a perilous position, but had no clue about the Elder Wand and therefore that Voldie would plan on killing him for it *while believing him still faithful.* By far the greatest dangers he expected to face (and so plan for) were 1) suspicion or discovery by Voldie, and 2) death by Order member or Harry himself.
As for plans to get the info to Harry in case of his own death: 1) I believe Oryx is correct that Dumbles would have made certain to get the info to him, something Severus almost certainly also would have believed to be the case, and 2) we see so little of Snape's activities during that time that there really is no evidence he did NOT have a such a plan B (absence of evidence being no evidence of absence). Harry did receive the info from him before he died, within a very short space of time from the moment Snape realized the possibility of his imminent death - so if there was say an automatic backup or something he could trigger remotely, it/he had little time to trigger and then it was unnecessary. So we don't see it.
All this is not to say he DID have a plan, just to point out that it is about equally possible/likely that he did or did not. JKR doesn't show us everything he does, just the minimal bits relevant to filling the reader and Harry in on what actually did happen. Statements that he did or did not have a plan B are all equally pure supposition.
Perhaps he *did* do something more in JKR's head, but she did not show it to us because it is not *relevant* to what actually happened. Given her intense concentration on Harry this is not surprising, but also I don't personally think it's a plot hole/lack of logic because the information is simply irrelevant to understanding the actual events of the plot as it played out. It's useful only for characterization purposes, and JKR doesn't go out of her way to provide us extra info on Snape during these scenes. It's all about explaining why he does what he does in a way Harry can accept. So I disagree that one can state that all that Snape did was hope and pray. We simply *don't know* what he did or did not do beyond what we actually see. There is no concrete evidence one way or the other. That we don't see these other concrete things being shown is due to the fact that they ceased to matter during the scene in the Shack, our POV was restricted to what Harry could have known, and Snape would I imagine have thought info about such moot points quite unnecessary to pass on during his death agony.
(Also, again, you refer to "something more definite," but I'm still wondering what specifically you envision here. So far as I can see there was very little in the way of concrete, definite things he could have done, given all the variables outside his control and his unavoidable reliance on finding out what others were doing in time to do anything himself.)
As to Harry believing the message, again, what specifically would you have him do that we don't see? What particular actions? So far as events actually played out: he gave Harry direct memories of all relevant conversations with Dumbles (i.e. enough for Harry to understand where the info came from, what he had to do, where the doe came from as evidence of trustworthiness, and why Snape killed Dumbles), gave him several highly personal and painful memories explaining his relationship with Lily and his motivations for the course of his entire adult life, and urged the boy with virtually his last breath to take the memories. Beyond that he could not ensure anyway because he was *dying.*
So far as events could have played out differently: again, we don't see anything *one way or another* about what he did or did not do or plan to do upon meeting Harry because 1) Voldie interrupted, 2) time was extremely short (dying), and therefore 3) only the truly necessary information for Harry to do what he needed to do was passed on. Everything else stayed inside Snape's head, including all those possible memories of planning out future conversations, writing charmed letters, or what have you. It's not a plot hole because it's not necessary for understanding the actual events that did occur or for motivating Harry. It all became a moot issue the moment Nagini stuck her fangs in Snape's throat, time shortened to minutes, and Harry showed up. All those possible plans ceased to be relevant because they would not play out anyway, so Snape (and thus JKR) did not include them.
I also seem to have not been clear enough, sorry: the 'something more definite' that I'm curious about is not about what JKR might envision, it's about what specifically *you* envision that Snape *could have* actually done in his planning when you talk about what seems to you to be his actual failure to plan. Because I don't see that he could have done much under the circumstances, and I am curious how you think he could have done more - what actions exactly he could have supposedly taken or planned to take, given the way so many things were outside his control. If one is going to accuse him of failing to take an action, one must have some idea of a possible action he could have taken or planned to take, yes? This is where I wonder what you personally would have liked to see him do, beyond the indefinite idea of 'make plans.'
Where I'm coming from, to be clear: thinking about *theoretical* possibilities for Snape to plan anything, I think he had very limited options because most key things (including timing) were beyond his control. Finding Potter the moment he discovered Nagini's protection, showing him the Patronus, and explaining or using a Pensieve to convince Potter of his true role was about all he could expect to be able to do.
But this is purely theoretical, since we are given *highly selected information* about the relevant time and his actions and plans then. Therefore I don't think one can make any sort of yes/no, verifiable statement about his failure or not-failure to plan; at most we can say that we don't know because we have no information. The cat is neither alive nor dead until the box is opened, and Severus neither planned nor did not plan until there is a statement or scene in canon establishing this. And we don't get one because it's not IMHO relevant to JKR's plot, just as what Snape did during the decade before Harry arrived at Hogwarts is not relevant and so is passed over. Everything we say regarding his plans or lack of plans and possibilities to plan is purely theoretical, purely supposition that is unverifiable one way or another.
What we know/what Severus knew
See, WE KNOW that Voldie's decided to protect Nagini and therefore (in retrospect) that the decision point Dumbledore gave Snape to tell Harry has arrived, because Harry saw it through the Scar-o-vison. But SEVERUS had no way of knowing.
Until he arrived in the Shack and saw Nagini in her cage, and realized he'd just MISSED HIS CHANCE. Adding to the horror of that moment for him.
Regarding the Patronus - it isn't the fact that Severus could cast a Patronus that mattered, nor the aesthetics of the Patronus, but the fact that Harry would realize the moment he saw Severus casting it (whether in life or in memory) that it was Severus who had brought him the sword in the forest. Harry knows why the sword was delivered to him (even if Severus didn't) - so he could destroy Horcruxes with it. And he knew through Albus' will that it was part of the Great Plan that he have it. So whoever bothered to make the effort and track him down in a forest (where he was so hidden that even Ron only found him with the help of Albus' Deluminator) to bring him the sword that Albus wanted him to have, the sword he needed for his mission, had to be on Albus' side, and therefore on his.
Obviously Harry wouldn't have trusted Severus' Patronus earlier - which is why Severus doesn't let the Patronus speak. If the Patronus had said anything, however well meant, in Severus' voice the sword would have been left lying under the lake.
Problem 1. Harry already recovered the sword under conditions of valour. He did that in Chamber of Secrets. How many times does he have to win the darn thing?
Problem 2. Harry almost died trying to get that sword. Not the most conducive way to gain trust. That would cause some distrust of the Patronus. This is what I mean when I say the moment that Harry knew who the Patronus belonged to, it is entirely likely he would think Snape had tried to kill him. I know that Ron was there, but Snape didn't. Also as Harry had already won the sword, the circumstances did not warrant throwing it in the pond
Problem 3 My Internet is still not working and I am getting very annoyed. Oryx, I almost swore at the girl on the other end of the phone today. It's a good thing, Liz down stairs has a good service. I am so mad I could spit.
Each and every time, it seems, or Dumbledore wouldn't have made a point of saying so. (How did Dumbledore earn it to use on the ring? Would it not have worked for him had he not put the ring on and cursed his hand?)
As to problem 2: Severus' approach shows familiarity with Harry's thinking. This was the boy who got excited about Dumbledore *wanting* him to go down the Labyrinth because he had the *right* to face Voldemort. Harry approves of authority figures sending him into danger to achieve a goal he considers worthwhile.
Harry never went down a Labyrinth. He went down to the Chamber of Secrets and he went to where the Philosopher's Stone was hidden, that is true. It is also true that Dumbledore realised that Harry would need to gain practical experience in dealing with Voldemort. Dumbledore knew that Harry would need to learn fast and learn young. That knowledge could not be taught in a classroom. I think Harry learnt very fast and very young. This was a necessity as Harry had been marked by Voldemort himself as the only one who could defeat him. I'm not to sure what Snape had to do with that, to tell the truth. I know he told Voldemort the Prophecy that targeted the children who were due to be born at the end of July, but he didn't tell Voldemort who to pick.
Harry is very independent and fearless, he has to be to defeat Voldemort.
Do you mean the Maze in GOF by the Labyrinth. Dumbledore had nothing to do with Harry entering the Maze. That was Barty Crouch Jr's plan. Dumbledore had no choice in the matter, Harry had to play or die.
When was Severus supposed to have had the moment to win Harry's trust, and failed or chose not to try? You seem to be speaking about winning Harry's trust RE passing on the Harrycrux info in DH specifically - something Severus had absolutely no idea about half a dozen years beforehand when he first met Harry and they established their mutually hostile relationship. So obviously winning his trust with an eye towards eventually passing on the message to commit assisted suicide was not on the agenda then, or at any time before 6th year. (Winning his trust independently of this goal is another matter, but I won't repeat oryx's and others arguments about that here.)
During 6th year, Dumbles instructed Severus not to tell Harry about the Harrycrux until the last moment, so melting the ice between them and passing on the message during 6th year was out of the question. Suddenly pursuing a friendly relationship with Harry during that year *without* the intention to pass on the message right away would have rung alarm bells in everyone's minds on both sides, given their relationship over the previous five years. It also would quite likely have backfired and caused Harry to *distrust* Snape even more after the Tower affair: he'd see it as a deliberate betrayal of himself personally, and would make him more resistant to listening to Severus later.
He also couldn't tell Harry anything too soon (including telling him about Dumbles' plan to have Snape kill him ahead of time) because of Voldie's scar-o-vision. This includes trying to explain things during the silver doe scene, since it's not yet time for Harry to die and Snape doesn't know ahead of time when that will occur - he has only a certain cue to look for, one totally independent of anything he can control. And the greater the time ahead of Harry's scheduled demise that Snape tells him anything, the greater the chance Voldie will peek into his head and perhaps discover Snape's role. (He also has to remain at the school and attempt to subtly rein in the Carrows/appear to Voldie to be doing his job, so trailing around after Harry waiting for the right moment is not an option.)
After the Tower affair, the scene in the Shack is the first time Snape and Harry come face to face since Dumbles' death, it doesn't occur on Snape's terms although he attempts beforehand to find Harry himself, and when Harry shows up Snape has minutes to live.
When exactly was he supposed to win his trust in order to make sure the message would be believed?
That could be seen as the million dollar question. I am not a great Snape fan, but even I have to admit that this is a hard row for Snape to hoe.
Whatever Severus' alternate plan, it would never have involved a human staff-member. They were not supposed to know his role. They did not have the power nor ability to hide it had they faced Voldemort, so as long as both Severus and Voldemort lived they could not be told, not even given a hint. (At most they could have been given the message in a form that only revealed itself after Severus' death.) The only entities Severus could have involved were the portraits and the house elves, which are magically bound to the headmaster's post, as well as the castle itself. Maybe even some of the ghosts.
plans
Snape's teaching was designed to foster competence and knowledge (and it did). He didn't know trust would eventually be relevant, and he probably would have despaired if he had, because he's never had the social gifts and as far as he could see Harry hated him on sight. (Not the fault of either of them; it was Quirrellmort who made Harry's scar hurt as he caught Snape's eye for the first time. But it meant that they both entered the first lesson already convinced the other hated them.)
"consistently treated them badly"
I don't agree. Snapee was strict and even harsh, but rarely unfair. Harry was at all times a lazy, sloppy, uninterested student, and in Snape's class he was also consistently disrespectful from the very start. (And he was also best friends with a student even lazier, sloppier and less interested - "I've got better things to do in Potions class than listen to Snape," says Ron in CoS - and a swotty show-off who let both of them copy her work. That wouldn't have helped either.) I'm contemporary with Snape, and in my schooldays, Harry would have got the strap for his behaviour as a matter of course. Every lesson.
Hogwarts is, if anything, very much behind the times in pedagogic practice, and the teachers that we do see are mostly incompetent (Trelawney, Quirrell, Lockhart), sarcastic (McGonagall, Flitwick, Snape), or both (Hagrid). There is no teacher training and no managerial support; Dumbledore doesn't even look up from his magazine when Snape tries to discuss problem student Harry.
"and then actually killing a much loved and trusted authority figure in front of them foster trust ... killing him for whatever reason in front of Harry, is not going to get Harry's trust."
Can't blame Snape for that; it was Dumbledore who both required the trust and made its achievement impossible.
"Since trust is all important it does indeed generate the question, why did Snape not try to win Harry's trust?"
How exactly? If saving Harry's life at the cost of Snape's reputation and comfort in the staffroom did not engender Harry's trust - and we know it did not - what would?
And why would Snape trust Harry enough to try? He knew the Dark Lord could listen in to Harry's mind and that, far from blocking him, Harry had welcomed him in.
By the time Snape knew trust would be important, it was too late for either to trust the other.
"Why did Snape not have a plan in place to get the information to Harry in case of his death?"
He probably did. We don't have any definite information about any alternate plans and fail-safes, but we *do* have a similar situation to judge from. I'm talking about the Sword of Gryffindor, of course, where Snape's final words in the scene where he suddenly learns Harry's location are:
"Don't worry, Dumbledore. I have a plan."
So I think it's a fairly safe bet that Snape had a plan about getting the Horcrux message to Harry, too - and I wouldn't be surprised if it utilised the same method: a silver doe Patronus that Harry instantly recognised as connected to his mother.
"Why was there no backup plan in place in case Snape said black instead of white to Voldemort and Voldemort killed him because of that?"
Yes, why did *Dumbledore* have no backup plan? Especially when the plans he did make were so ridiculously unlikely to succeed? What if Voldemort had checked on his Horcruxes sooner and hidden the rest somewhere safer before Harry got to them? What if Harry hadn't escaped Malfoy Manor? (For that matter, what if he hadn't been captured and thus never deduced where the Hufflepuff cup was?) What if Voldemort found the Elder Wand sooner and killed Snape sooner too? At every point, Dumbledore's plan was weak. At every point, it defied logic and common sense.
Re: plans
Re: plans
duj