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If we carry through on the racism/blood prejudice equivalency...
was James Potter a racist of the worst order?
Think back to the Snape's Worst Memory scene. Remember when Lily asks James just what Severus ever did to him? The reply from James was, "it's more the fact that he exists if you know what I mean. . ." Most people, IMO, interpret that to mean the bully's "natural" prey instinct had kicked in, but what if we are going to carry through on the claim that anti-Muggle and Muggleborn prejudice is equivalent to racism.
These boys were born in 1960, and it was not until 1967 that Loving v. Virginia struck down anti-miscegenation laws in the US. Ahhh, you say, stop trying to apply American standards and baggage to Brits. So let's look at Rowling's model: Anti-miscegenation laws were enforced in Nazi Germany. They were also enforced in South Africa between 1949 and 1985. So....was Snape's existence the result of a violation of the law? How many half-bloods did we see in the Marauder era? And even if it's not illegal, was it considered shameful by a large segment of the Wizarding population? No, it wasn't by Harry's time, but mores change. Is that part of what James meant when he said it was that Severus existed? He added "if you know what I mean", which is the nod-nod, wink-wink of a racist, roughly equivalent to the loaded statements characters in Seinfeld used to make about homosexuals, always followed up with the tag line: "Not that there's anything wrong with that." (nod, nod, wink, wink). It's also the shrug and eye-roll that accompanies many whites' comments about Native Americans, with the apparent idea that they can imply the most outrageously racist things, and it doesn't count because they trail off towards the end. But their buddies all know what they meant, so they're covered either way.
I can almost hear the howls of outrage. ;-) You idiot, they say, he was married to LILY, the ultimate poster child for Muggle-borns. But...
How many friends did James Potter have who were not pureblood? I mean friends, as opposed to hangers-on or sycophants. We know he was married to Lily, obviously. Which means that he made an exception for his own behavior, not uncommon at all for bigots. And yes, he "befriended" Lupin the werewolf in school. But how much did he do after school, when Lupin was not a dorm-mate and, later, a prefect in a position to choose between admiring them or blowing the whistle on Sirius and him? Rowling said in her interviews post-DH that James was independently wealthy, which allowed James and Sirius not to worry about having jobs, so they could "work" for the Order full-time. Note that she does not include Lupin in James' largesse, which according to her extended to James' wife and Sirius, who just happened to be pure-blooded.
These boys were born in 1960, and it was not until 1967 that Loving v. Virginia struck down anti-miscegenation laws in the US. Ahhh, you say, stop trying to apply American standards and baggage to Brits. So let's look at Rowling's model: Anti-miscegenation laws were enforced in Nazi Germany. They were also enforced in South Africa between 1949 and 1985. So....was Snape's existence the result of a violation of the law? How many half-bloods did we see in the Marauder era? And even if it's not illegal, was it considered shameful by a large segment of the Wizarding population? No, it wasn't by Harry's time, but mores change. Is that part of what James meant when he said it was that Severus existed? He added "if you know what I mean", which is the nod-nod, wink-wink of a racist, roughly equivalent to the loaded statements characters in Seinfeld used to make about homosexuals, always followed up with the tag line: "Not that there's anything wrong with that." (nod, nod, wink, wink). It's also the shrug and eye-roll that accompanies many whites' comments about Native Americans, with the apparent idea that they can imply the most outrageously racist things, and it doesn't count because they trail off towards the end. But their buddies all know what they meant, so they're covered either way.
I can almost hear the howls of outrage. ;-) You idiot, they say, he was married to LILY, the ultimate poster child for Muggle-borns. But...
How many friends did James Potter have who were not pureblood? I mean friends, as opposed to hangers-on or sycophants. We know he was married to Lily, obviously. Which means that he made an exception for his own behavior, not uncommon at all for bigots. And yes, he "befriended" Lupin the werewolf in school. But how much did he do after school, when Lupin was not a dorm-mate and, later, a prefect in a position to choose between admiring them or blowing the whistle on Sirius and him? Rowling said in her interviews post-DH that James was independently wealthy, which allowed James and Sirius not to worry about having jobs, so they could "work" for the Order full-time. Note that she does not include Lupin in James' largesse, which according to her extended to James' wife and Sirius, who just happened to be pure-blooded.
Not that James seems to be really "justifying" it. He seems pretty confident that he's just entitled.
And yes, he "befriended" Lupin the werewolf in school.
Which just sort of gave him the advantage of keeping Lupin from blowing the whistle on him, because if Lupin got out of line, suddenly the full moons were no longer merry romps with animal buddies but an agony of solitary suffering in the Shrieking Shack. It could be coincidence, but I can also see James using it as an excuse to do something fun like learn how to be an animagus. And there may have been some genuine stirring of human spirit in there somewhere, but then wouldn't he, as you say, have provided for Lupin instead of letting the guy live in abject poverty?
Anyway, you've raised good points to ponder. Especially the thought that Lily merely jumped from a superficial bigot who, given the right kind of mentoring, was capable of outgrowing it, into someone who was a dyed-in-the-wool bigot.
As much as I wanted to like Lily, the more I think about it, the less likeable I find her. And the idea that we should be equating blood prejudice with racism, complete with all the baggage, just ends up making me even more sympathetic to Severus. Just imagine being poor and ugly, and then facing racist attacks on your very existence (and that's just from the "good guys"). It makes his position as a student all the more precarious, and would certainly go quite some distance towards explaining (in a very unsympathetic to Hogwarts kind of way) just why the pureblood teachers like Dumbledore and McGonagall could not be bothered to intervene.
And then to have Lily excusing that behavior, all the while accusing *his* "friends" of making racist attacks on *her friends*. No wonder he was reduced to staring impotently at her.
I wish more people saw this! Lily doesn't really listen to him; she rails at him, cuts him off, and, surely knowing that Severus is not exactly adept at quickly articulating his thoughts when under pressure, bludgeons him with the assumption that he is agreeing with everything she is accusing him of. He doesn't fail to answer her charges because he "knows" she is right; he fails to answer because he's locked up with anxiety, fear, and shame.
One good thing about all the discussion of this lately is that it's prompted me to start reading more about the dynamics of bullying and abuse. It appears it will come in handy for discussions with Marauder-lovers, even if I never use it in a professional or authorial capacity. (The latter, however, is VERY likely...)
To be fair: 21-year-olds who are murdered by dark wizards may not have had the forethought to make a will that says "and give $X/month to my high-school buddy who will have a hell of a time finding employment, should his life-threatening and contagious disease status become public knowledge."
Before Harry's 3rd year, I don't think we've got any indication that Lupin was having trouble finding employment. He wasn't wealthy, but wasn't exactly hurting, either. It's only after, when his condition becomes known, that he slides into poverty.
Other than that point, though, I agree; James was indeed a first-class bigot, an arrogant privileged jerk who expected to be at the top of the social order because he was born that way.
Twenty-one or not, who would be so stupid not to make *some* kind of will or provision, who would be so irresponsible... Oh.. wait...
Other than that point, though, I agree; James was indeed a first-class bigot, an arrogant privileged jerk who expected to be at the top of the social order because he was born that way.
Well, that's a much more fundamental point than speculation about wills. I'm still a bit sad that it turned out to be so--and that JKR still finds this kid of person somehow admirable. O_0
Of course, I'm also of the opinion that interviews aren't canon--not because "only books are canon" but because JKR obviously can't be bothered to mesh her mental image with the details she wrote in the books themselves.
1. Rowling intends for her readers to be outraged at Severus on Remus' behalf, because Severus cost him his job by revealing he was a werewolf. That Severus only did so after Remus failed to take his potion and almost attacked Harry is apparently considered irrelevant.
2. Rowling intends for her readers to be impressed with poor Remus and how he has suffered.
3. Rowling intends for us to be impressed that Dumbledore would take pity on poor Remus and give him a job.
4. Rowling intends for us to be impressed that James, Lily and Sirius were *so brave* and dedicated their lives to fighting Voldy.
Instead, she leaves me with the following opinions:
1. Severus was the only responsible one (not to mention the only one who actually cared *about Harry*) in the whole d** school during Prisoner of Azkaban. Goodness knows Harry's own head of house can't seem to be bothered much with him other than making sure the kid has a broom to play Quidditch, which seems a bit odd given that Rowling keeps assuring us the kid is loveable.
2. Remus is a sap who shows a remarkable amount of ingratitude and passive/agressive behavior directed at Severus.
3. Dumbles is a manipulative bastard who grabbed the opportunity to fill that pesky DADA position and garner another impovrished hanger-on indebted to him in the process.
4. James, Sirius and Lily are self-indulgent prats who would let their "friend" almost starve to death rather than get a job or invade the principal producing the interest off of which they are living.
YMMV
1) Severus was willing to face the threat that almost killed him as a teenager, to protect three brats who were breaking the school rules and getting into stuff they had no business being involved with.
2) Remus shows an amazing level of apathy and entitlement. (How has he been surviving all these years? Was wolfsbane only during his year at Hogwarts, or has Sev been making it for him for the last 10 years or more?)
3) Dumbledore's most amazing feat with the DADA game is hiding it from the wizarding public that he can't, rather than won't, keep a teacher longer than one year... and by this time, almost 50 years after the curse, he must be scraping the bottom of the barrel for candidates.
4) J/S/L are good threesome fic material, and I think there's a decent likelihood that Harry is Sirius' illegitimate child. They didn't dedicate their lives to "fight Voldemort;" they dedicated their lives to supporting the status quo. That included avoiding any extremist "pureblood" movement that might get rid of the "lesser people" who idolize them. Without muggleborns and halfbloods, who would they have to feel superior to?
Ohhh... Good point!!
Somebody write a fic about this, please!
Lily does come across as a girl who, when she was eight or nine, would dream of marrying Prince Andrew (or something like that) and be rich and never having to work and be pretty all day and people loving her for no other reason than she being a princess and pretty. No wonder she falls for James (even before SWM) because James is the posterchild of Young, Rich and Spoilt. If he was muggle, he'd be racing cars in Monte Carlo and play the 'highroller' in casinos. So is Sirius, btw. Rebels without a cause, born with a silver spoon in their mouths and sneering at anything that wasn't in their 'class'.
Mind you, they don't sound like the aristocracy, who at least teach their children the responsibilities of their position (note; perhaps it was these responsibilties as oldest scion of an old family that Sirius rebelled against. His parents wanted to groom him in the future Head of the Family - he just 'wanted to have fun')
So, Lily indeed sounds like she indeed wanted to marry into riches, and she would therefore have an invested interest in keeping the status quo, with the Potters firmly on top. Maybe this is why Snape the impoverished Halfblood became a DE; maybe he did want to topple those bloody Potters and Blacks and Establish A New Order blah blah *insert youthful bitterness and ideology phrases which we all spouted when we were sixteen and of which we are embarressed twenty years later*
So, any takers for a fanfic where James talks ever so condenscending about muggles (his inlaws for instance) and Lily basking - much as her son would one day - in her position of Mrs Potter, in her 'fairytale princess' marriage to 'the moste eligible bachelor of Hogwarts and her 'tragedy' of being who she is (the mother of the prophecised child)
Something in me tells me she would sooo love the attention.
A love triangle with Sirius would be fun, but not really necessary. But fun.
Heh, we have that one already. It was auctioned off for 25,000 pounds.
And the other one about the three of them being themselves and utterly irresponsible -- well, we've got a fanfic that fits the bill, a 800-word prequel written much more eloquently and with a way more morally integral message (not to mention way more heroic hero) IMHO, over at 800_words:
http://community.livejournal.com/800_wor
Sorry, I should stop with the snark :P But the fics there are a very nice read, cleansing your palate of glorified rich punk rockers.
Because Sirius took care for it. :)
Since JKR didn't bother to enlighten us about in her books I think this theory might be as goos as any tossed around here in the comments.
With what? Doesn't book canon say that Sirius was disinherited? And if one drags in interviews, Sirius was too busy living off James' money.
As for those interviews: as we all agree JKR babbles nonsence there, mostly, which keeps turning some people rather bitchy.
Personaly, I preffer facts being written black ( ;) ) on white.
Saying Dumbledore and James regularly Apperated to the moon to conspire against Snape is as good as any theory being tossed around here at the moment.