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Tweak says, "queer as folk quotes = gay"

Doop (xdoop) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-09-17 18:54:00

Entry tags:

char: mary jane watson, char: spider-man/peter parker, char: white rabbit/lorina dodson, creator: fred van lente, creator: javier pulido, title: amazing spider-man

Amazing Spider-Man #605

This is from Amazing Spider-Man #605, by Fred Van Lente and Javier Pulido. The cover is by Mike Mayhew.

The story takes place six weeks ago (ie, before MJ returned in #600). We see a flashback to MJ having an argument with Peter.

Meanwhile, MJ's celebrity boyfriend Bobby Carr is taking MGH so he can get the role of Captain America in a new movie. The DEA is after him because they want his dealer, who turns out to be the White Rabbit.

MJ knocks out one of the White Rabbit's minions and takes her outfit.

MJ manages to subdue the Rabbit with a cream machine from the set, and the police arrive. Afterwards she gets into an argument with Bobby about his MGH usage and dumps him, and takes up an offer she received earlier to host the "Sewn Up" reality show in New York.

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autolychus2
2009-09-18 12:37 am UTC (link)

I agree. I tend to think that most of the people that find problems with the writing/storylines (including my little, troll-ey friend) tend to be the same people that just hate the deal with Mephisto so much it colors everything they have read in the comic since. I'm not saying there aren't problems (and for the record I could write a book on the deal with Mephisto -- not the least of which is the fact that there HAS to be a more significant payment for Pete and MJ, than the dissolution of their marriage. I'm talking, Old Testament, dogs living in sin with cats-type payment, here.) -- there are. But, there are people who parse every sentence and from that make the most deplorable assumptions .... Sorry, rant over.

Anyhoo, I agree with you that a big part of being a superhero, would be either A. Always lying to your friends/loved ones or B. Tell them and have them worry themselves into an early grave. To me it would be even worse for them than being a the loved one of a cop -- as the whole sent to another dimension thing would be even worse.

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	punishermax 2009-09-18 12:48 am UTC (link)
	I'm gonna go on the record and say that if the whole Chameleon incident had happened in Pre-OMD, with someone other than Peter being impersonated (Flash or someone) and it was exactly the same word for word otheriwse, the backlash would be nowhere NEAR the amount we see now. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

cyberghostface
2009-09-18 01:03 am UTC (link)

I have to disagree with that statement, as well as the general consensus that BND fans have that people who aren't happy with the status quo wouldn't feel that way if not for the OMD machinations.

Prior to OMD, people still had a lot of problems with the Spider-Man titles since...well, for a long time. So no, I don't see people overlooking this if it were to happen without the deal with the devil.

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autolychus2
2009-09-18 01:35 am UTC (link)

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but it only holds water if you're an disinterested viewer, not someone who hates BND/OMD. Otherwise, you're really just rationalizing.

But, yeah, they would've -- at least the 70s fans. I truly wish we had had the Internet back then.

Like I said, or tried to I think, I'll only be disappointed if, at the end -- and you and I know that there'll be an end -- there isn't a more painful payment for Pete and MJ.

Also, a question: Why is it alcohol makes you more likely to get into arguments, but simultaneously takes away your ability to argue?

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cyberghostface
2009-09-18 01:52 am UTC (link)

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but it only holds water if you're an disinterested viewer, not someone who hates BND/OMD. Otherwise, you're really just rationalizing.

As I've said in earlier threads, I've liked certain stuff about BND. I think Mr. Negative is an interesting character, and I enjoyed the Harry story that Dematteis did. So this is hardly a case of me wearing shit-colored glasses that automatically make me hate everything BND does. I mean, even if OMD didn't happen, and Harry still returned in the fashion he did--I would still hate it. My opinion of his storyline (aside from that one Dematteis story, of course) has nothing to do with Peter making a deal with the devil.

And likewise, if they had done a similar storyline to this, with rape/violation being portrayed in a humorous light, I wouldn't like it. Crap is crap.

I can safely say that, even if OMD hadn't happened, I WOULD have dropped ASM. Even if the status quo wouldn't put me off, the mediocre writing would have.

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autolychus2
2009-09-18 02:08 am UTC (link)

Well, it wasn't rape (though I admit I jumped to that conclusion) so it's really being mad about Chameleon making out with a character who (to me) seems to only be there as a romantic comedy pairing with Pete. I didn't like that -- romantic comedy is a genre? that is hard to get exactly right.

While I will agree with you that the writing has been, well I'll call it uneven, there have been some true gems -- and I don't know if this was ASM or one of the other Spidey titles -- like the Hammerhead arc, or the Mr. Negative arc that have made it better. People tend to remember the great stuff and forget the dreck -- except in the Internet age. I guarantee you if my comic collection hadn't gone up in flames a few months ago in the house fire that I could have given you several occasions during the "classic" run of Spidey in the 70s that are as bad.

And I guarantee you that you wouldn't have dropped it then.

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	punishermax 2009-09-18 02:15 am UTC (link)
	Jesus, I have Essential Amazing Vol. 1-9, there was some PAINFUL shit in the first volume. I mean, like issue 5 had that terrible circus gang hypnotize Pete and DD had to kick his ass in a really dumb as hell issue. I mean damn, the Clone Saga, BETTY BRANT, and Pete was a gigantic dick back in the sixties. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	autolychus2 2009-09-18 02:24 am UTC (link)
	But, as much of a dick as he was, he was still funny -- and human. I tend to think that the new writers are making him human and funny -- but different from THAT human and funny. I'm not saying that one is superior to the other (though I do have nostalgia for that era). (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	punishermax 2009-09-18 02:27 am UTC (link)
	Sixties Pete was a dick in that...funny sixties way. Like the guys on Mad Men are assholes, but people in the sixties are just funny. They talk funny and are just less dickish in that way. Now Pete's just sort of a dick in the general "Dude, stop being a douche" way. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

autolychus2
2009-09-18 02:34 am UTC (link)

But that, in a way, is my point.
If you're true to the essential character as presented as a writer, you're fucked, and if you aren't, you're fucked. (Don't ask me about Loeb and Hulk)

The only thing I like about BND is that Spider-man, to me seems funnier. Peter, however, seems exactly the same as his characterization 20 years ago.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I like that he hit on Ms. Marvel.

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	scottyquick 2009-09-18 02:56 am UTC (link)
	He did? Scans or it didn't happen. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	autolychus2 2009-09-18 03:05 am UTC (link)
	He did? Scans or it didn't happen. Howbutthewhat? Sorry, maybe it's the cool, bubbly, kinda soapsuds taste of the Budweiser I'm drinking, but I don't understand the question. If you're asking me for Spider-dickish examples, see ASM Vol. 1 or look up thread. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	scottyquick 2009-09-18 03:14 am UTC (link)
	Oh, no, I mean the hitting-on-Carol! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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autolychus2, 2009-09-18 03:17 am UTC

	ashtoreth 2009-09-18 06:22 am UTC (link)
	It's been scanned, pretty sure. Do a tag search. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-09-18 12:36 pm UTC (link)
	I don't think so; maybe it was on the old s_d? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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ashtoreth, 2009-09-18 04:01 pm UTC

cyberghostface
2009-09-18 02:33 am UTC (link)

The internet was in an uproar because it at least implied rape, and Van Lente didn't help when he said that Chameleon had at least perpetrated a "despicable" act on Michelle. But I'm hardly bothered by it now, even though the fallout was handled very poorly IMO with Pete trying to tell her the truth.

The Hammerhead one is another example of an arc I thought I was good. I'll give you that (but it's still a story that could have largely been told without the new status quo, if I remember)

And I guarantee you that you wouldn't have dropped it then.

I might have, if I was in the same financial situation I am in now. I'm hardly poor, but I'm certainly not able to plunk down over $60 a month on whatever comic strikes my fancy. I narrowed it down to three titles that I really like--Walking Dead, Ultimate Spider-Man and Daredevil, in addition to an occasional mini--and dropped a lot of others that I sort've liked but could have lived without. So if I hadn't dropped Amazing Spider-Man because of OMD I would have dropped it soon after.

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autolychus2
2009-09-18 02:40 am UTC (link)

Sorry, I forgot to factor in the difference in comic prices. LOL.

Honestly, I can't buy a comic without driving 56 miles from my house. And for a good comic shop, I have to drive 70.

Anyhow, whether we disagree or not I guess I have to like you as Benjamin Linus is my favorite character on "Lost". I mean, how can you not like a character who wouldn't tell the truth if a beautiful lie can serve just as well?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	cyberghostface 2009-09-18 02:44 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, Ben's definitely my favorite character, too. :) I liked him as soon as he came on, even though it was just because I recognized him from Saw at first. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	autolychus2 2009-09-18 02:46 am UTC (link)
	My brother-in-law, who is even more redneck than I am, calls "Lost" "The Ben Show" (Reply to this) (Parent)

	stratosfyr 2009-09-18 04:34 pm UTC (link)
	...Chameleon ~~making out with~~ a character who (to me) seems to only be there as a romantic comedy pairing with Pete. I misread, as indicated. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	punishermax 2009-09-18 01:48 am UTC (link)
	Well first I didn't mean that ALL people who hate the status quo hate everything about it for dumb reasons. I'm talking about the very loud minority that act like Peter post BND is almost super villain worthy for making dumb mistakes and sometimes being a dick. (Reply to this) (Parent)

autolychus2
2009-09-18 01:20 am UTC (link)

I would say that even were it Peter being impersonated the wharble wouldn't have reached the levels it did. Maybe it's just that I'm among the older posters here (I grew up on 70s Spidey) and I remember him differently.

Let me say this, I loved and love Pete, but he was always a bit of a dick to his friends. Really, he was. The mantra, with great power comes great responsibility made him that way.

He was responsible to the world first. Aunt May, who was the center of his non-Spidey universe came in second -- there are numerous instances where, if he had just gotten her medicine, been there for her, etc., that things would have been fine, but ... Others, MJ, Gwen, Betty, et. al. were several orders of magnitude less important in the grand scheme of things. Hell, he completely ignored his best friends descent into drug use and madness until it was nearly too late. I could go on, but I'm drinking and "Fringe" is on (Yay!)

I guess if I had to sum it up, and yes I buried the lede, I'd say that there's a good reason Frank Castle premiered in Spider-man -- they're both, at their core, all about the mission. Frank is just Pete's dark half.

Or maybe I'm completely wrong and just enjoying my buzz a bit too much.

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	taggerung301 2009-09-18 01:40 am UTC (link)
	well, I can see what you're saying, and I'm not intoxicated at the moment that's an interesting thought - Peter and Frank as two sides of a coin (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	autolychus2 2009-09-18 01:44 am UTC (link)
	See kids, alcohol does have its uses. LOL (Reply to this) (Parent)

starwolf_oakley
2009-09-18 05:11 am UTC (link)

Peter had some sympathy for Frank when they first met. "I think that guy's problems make mine look like a birthday party."

It would explain why Spider-Man gives the Punisher a pass so often, when it's so clear the Punisher will go on to kill more criminals. Spider-Man did try to capture him at the end of "Crime and Punisher," but instead had to save the life of super-villain Moses Magnum.

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