InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "SWITCH PLACES!"

trueredorion (trueredorion) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-08-20 20:08:00

Entry tags:

char: iron man/tony stark, char: thor, creator: patrick zircher, publisher: marvel comics

Zircher's Iron Man
The variant cover to Invincible Iron Man #20 under the cut.

(Post a new comment)

	colonel_green 2009-08-21 03:21 am UTC (link)
	That's one the bigger renditions of Mjolnir I've seen (often as not the handle is about as long as his grip). (Reply to this) (Thread)

	xlineartx 2009-08-21 03:26 am UTC (link)
	Perhaps he's been rubbing it? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	colonel_green 2009-08-21 03:27 am UTC (link)
	Oh, I see, you're suggesting the hammer is his penis. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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xlineartx, 2009-08-21 03:51 am UTC

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arilou_skiff, 2009-08-21 06:11 am UTC

(no subject) -

geoffsebesta, 2009-08-21 04:55 am UTC

	trueredorion 2009-08-21 03:26 am UTC (link)
	Kirby drew it at a similar length at first. And Zircher's probably used to drawing this long due to Ages of Thunder. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	thandrak 2009-08-21 03:28 am UTC (link)
	Surprisingly, the short handle is mythologically accurate. That was the sabotage to the hammer. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	xdoop 2009-08-21 03:29 am UTC (link)
	knowing Fraction this will end with Thor forgiving Tony while completely white-washing Tony's involvement in any wrongdoing like he's did with the Spider-Man guest-appearance and his continued use of Hill. Because Tony and Maria are evil, and all they deserve is death. (Reply to this) (Thread)

freezer818
2009-08-21 03:40 am UTC (link)

Let's be reasonable, there's just something you can't just overlook. And not everyone is going to be willing to forgive and forget.

That's the problem with comics characters crossing a line like that. When they're inevitably brought back into the fold, it's usually "All is forgiven, let us not speak of this again" (about a half-dozen Batman misdeeds) or "We'll say all is forgiven, but we'll throw your misdeeds back in your face at every opportunity" (Hank Pym: Wife Beater*)

The only time I can think where this sort of thing was handled without jumping to either extreme was in Justice League Unlimited, where Hawkgirl was allowed back into the Leeague, and was met with open mistrust by most of the league.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	trueredorion 2009-08-21 03:46 am UTC (link)
	Of course, according to you attempted baby murder makes someone a better person then the X-Men. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-08-21 03:50 am UTC (link)
	Mystique took a risk, saved Rogue's life, and the baby was unharmed. Should she have just sat on her hands and let Rogue die a horrible death for nothing? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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trueredorion, 2009-08-21 04:18 am UTC

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xdoop, 2009-08-21 04:25 am UTC

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trueredorion, 2009-08-21 04:38 am UTC

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xdoop, 2009-08-21 05:08 am UTC

neuhallidae
2009-08-21 03:30 am UTC (link)

Even though I know they're directly referencing the end of The Confession, his pose looks slightly awkward to me. In a "natural" (or as naturally as the body will lay on an autopsy table) hands tend to fall palms down or inward towards the body. Unless the armor on the back of his hands is heavier than the repulsor tech, there's not much of a reason for his hands to be laying the way they're drawn, it puts more stress on the lower arms.

(I know, I know, nag, nag, nag.)

(Reply to this)

This bugs me a bit

roguefankc
2009-08-21 03:44 am UTC (link)

For some weird reason, the way they're showing Tony and Thor in the same position Cap and Tony were after Civil War just seems sacrilegious and disrespectful of how Cap died and Tony's character.

I understand that it's trying to display the same type of grief and remorse on Thor's part and how Tony died, unloved and abandoned by everybody, but mimicking Cap's death and Tony's confession like this role reversal isn't the same. In fact, it sort of cheapens it by trying to make it the same.

To me, it's saying like Steve and Tony both died under the same circumstances and how Tony and Thor will both confess "it wasn't worth it". But the problem is, it isn't in the same circumstances. Steve died and Tony had the monologue because he could admit secretly that though there was no other way, Steve was ultimately right about the Registration Act and Tony will be carrying the burden of his mistakes. To put THOR in Tony's place is disrespectful because: 1.) it implies that Thor was wrong when he didn't do anything but blame Tony for the state of the heroes' status quo (which has merit) and 2.) like Cap, Tony died being ultimately right (after seeing Dark Reign and the aftermath of the SHRA, it's FAR from the truth - Tony should have never supported it).

I know, I know, too long of a rant. I'll just sum it up: I feel this doesn't work like Steve and Tony's deathbed confession because the circumstances aren't the same. This just makes a mockery of Thor, Tony, and Cap's characters, really.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: This bugs me a bit

starwolf_oakley
2009-08-21 04:36 am UTC (link)

For some weird reason, the way they're showing Tony and Thor in the same position Cap and Tony were after Civil War just seems sacrilegious and disrespectful of how Cap died and Tony's character.

Given it now seems Cap wasn't dead (as Sharon shot him with a Billy Pilgrim Gun) maybe Cap heard Tony's whole confession. Which was really just "Hey, the war was pretty much inevitable, not that I could predict what we would fight about or why. But, hey, at least I didn't take a drink. Go me."

Steve was ultimately right about the Registration Act

Tony said "It wasn't worth it," not "You were right and I was wrong." Those are two different things.

like Cap, Tony died being ultimately right (after seeing Dark Reign and the aftermath of the SHRA, it's FAR from the truth - Tony should have never supported it).

That's a tough call. A very tough call. I know superhero stories shouldn't tell the audience WHAT to think, but the problem with Dark Reign is that Norman Osborne is in charge, not that the SHRA is wrong.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: This bugs me a bit -

oddpuppets, 2009-08-21 05:36 am UTC

Re: This bugs me a bit -

darkknightjrk, 2009-08-21 07:14 pm UTC

Re: This bugs me a bit -

valtyr.dreamwidth.org, 2009-08-21 09:34 pm UTC

Re: This bugs me a bit - (Anonymous), 2009-08-21 08:29 am UTC

	Re: This bugs me a bit icon_uk 2009-08-21 11:57 am UTC (link)
	Frankly I'm getting a "Verily, if thou even TRY to sit up, thou miserable can of wormfood, I shall pound thy head into thy abdomen with this very large hammer." (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: This bugs me a bit -

novoadonai, 2009-08-21 03:19 pm UTC

Re: This bugs me a bit -

kingrockwell, 2009-08-21 06:54 pm UTC

Re: This bugs me a bit -

janegray, 2009-08-21 07:54 pm UTC

	proteus_lives 2009-08-21 04:53 am UTC (link)
	That's an awesome cover! (Reply to this)

	shanejayell 2009-08-21 04:56 am UTC (link)
	I'm very 'meh' about this. Pretty cover, tho. (Reply to this)

*sniff*
(Anonymous)
2009-08-21 08:28 am UTC (link)

It looks like a Trace of Maleev's art, and well... Maleev isn't really top drawer what with his... yeah.

Fraction is still on the book? The arc is still NOT over? *shrug* Salvador Larocca is still on pencils?

Still a do not want.

Besides, what Tony did in to Thor was a rape of his identity - and - I like Tony. I also sympathised with Tony's position, although I didn't agree with it, because when it comes to governments and minorities - which superheroes are a part of just tends to be problematic.

Why would Thor apologise to Tony? Man, I would give Tony a bollocking - because sometimes, you have to give your friends a well intentioned smack around the head and ears, because what Tony did was bang out of order.

I know that Tony has paid and paid for his trespass (with a crappy artist and a writer who's an ILL FIT for the title - and I liked Fraction's The Order and his odd turn on the X-men), but Tony has to realise that in his zeal to side with the SHRA, he committed crimes (emotionally and legally) that need some sort of acknowledgement of saying, "Yes, I did it, my bad." He hasn't done that as yet, and until he does, it's just all stations of the cross (metaphorically) without the change of heart, and why bother if that's the case?

Maria Hill, well... I know that Fraction is trying to make her sympathetic, but he needs to step back from that one a bit.

(Reply to this)

*sniff*

jazzypom
2009-08-21 08:29 am UTC (link)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: *sniff*

arilou_skiff
2009-08-21 09:13 am UTC (link)

I think Tony *shouldn't* admit that he's wrong, or at least not entirely.

Mind, bear with me a bit here, Tony should go "Well, that didn't work. Oh well, time to think up something better, might have to re-jig a few ideas, refine the plan a bit. When something's not working you try to figure out why and then make the approporiate adjustments."

Mind, i kind of see Tony as a symbol for Modernity, with all the problems and weirdness inherent in that. He is Progress and Self Improvement and all that (Captain America got his powers from others, Spidey got his by accident, mutants were born with theirs... Tony *built* his) He's not just a scientist, like Reed, who is pretty much content to discover stuff for their own sake: He's an engineer, with an engineer's mindset. He wants to make things that work and watch them in the real world.

And he is as much a *social* engineer as a technical one.

And that's the thing, really, that's his biggest flaw and his greatest asset: Cap tries to fight evil where it is, Tony to some degree tries to "fix" problems on a deeper level. Cap is leading by example and inspiration, hoping to make people realize their potential and change their lives. Tony rifles around in the hodgepodge of motivations and incentives and tries to figure out a way to make people act differently.

The problem is of course that Tony isn't as rational as he might think (he has a slew of personal emotional issues) and neither are other people. So he's going to fail spectacularly, quite often. But he'll keep trying, because that's what he does.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Hmmm I agree with you on some points -

jazzypom, 2009-08-21 09:29 am UTC

Re: Hmmm I agree with you on some points -

kd_the_movie, 2009-08-21 10:33 am UTC

Tony killed her husband -

jazzypom, 2009-08-21 10:48 am UTC

eh. -

jazzypom, 2009-08-21 10:48 am UTC

Re: Tony killed her husband -

darkknightjrk, 2009-08-21 07:26 pm UTC

Basically -

jazzypom, 2009-08-21 07:32 pm UTC

Re: Basically -

angelophile, 2009-08-21 11:35 pm UTC

Re: Basically -

ashtoreth, 2009-08-22 05:17 am UTC

Re: Hmmm I agree with you on some points -

pensive1, 2009-08-21 03:40 pm UTC

Re: Hmmm I agree with you on some points -

neuhallidae, 2009-08-21 09:34 pm UTC

Re: Hmmm I agree with you on some points -

jazzypom, 2009-08-22 08:07 am UTC

	kd_the_movie 2009-08-21 09:04 am UTC (link)
	Only 1 question i want answered: Are we EVER going to see the Extremis armor again? I mean, shit, why throw away a sweet armor design just because no one knew how to write Extremis!Tony? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	More than likely jazzypom 2009-08-21 09:32 am UTC (link)
	Tony Stark is a man who's all about technology - although Fraction might not know it- so he'll come back to it in the end. It's a sweet armour, although I wish the artists who draw in 1610 verse (Ultimates) would leave it in the 616 verse. I mean... WTF, people? Different universes, different armours, is that so hard? grump grump grump (Reply to this) (Parent)

	pensive1 2009-08-21 03:37 pm UTC (link)
	no one knew how to write Extremis!Tony THIS. SO MUCH THIS!!!!!! This has been one of the main reasons I have decried the current writer for the title. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	darkknightjrk 2009-08-21 07:28 pm UTC (link)
	YES. I loved his development into being part of the Iron Man suit--the futurist man of tomorrow would definately be getting into nanotechnology of some kind at some point. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sherkahn 2009-08-21 03:33 pm UTC (link)
	Thor Odinson is there so that when zombie Stark rises from the dead Tony will face everlasting justice for what he has done and get his head caved in with extra-large, supersized Mjolnir to the brainpan. Thor is just savoring those moments as he patiently waits.... (Reply to this)

cygna_hime
2009-08-21 10:29 pm UTC (link)

I love the art but knowing Fraction this will end with Thor forgiving Tony while completely white-washing Tony's involvement in any wrongdoing like he's did with the Spider-Man guest-appearance and his continued use of Hill.

Jeez Louise, no. Just no. I mean, I agree that that's what it seems will happen, but...no. Writing FAIL on so many counts.

Okay, I love Tony dearly, and I have this massively true and pure love for redemption stories (the influence on my youthful thought process of C.S. Lewis: let me show you it), but this shows all signs of just failing on all counts.

Because, see, the thing about a redemption story is that Step One, before which one may have no other steps, is "Admit your wrongdoing". Preferably a)out loud, and b)in front of others. Step Two (fix what you broke as best you can) and Step Three (grovel to the people you love and pray they will forgive you) are nice and all, but until Step One happens, they're pretty much meaningless. Which means that, yes, sometimes you just have to open your mouth and say, "I'm sorry, I did wrong, it was unjustifiable, I [explanation of WTF you were thinking], but that doesn't excuse the fact that I was wrong, I hurt people, and I apologize." Because that's what we do, when we are adults who try to be moral people.

It might annoy me less with another character, but (lest we forget in the hail of OOC) Tony Stark is the man who had the balls and conviction to get up in front of the whole damn world and say, "Making weapons was wrong, and I'm not going to do it anymore." It's his defining character moment. And yet, this whole arc, Fraction has yet to give Tony one damn sentence of "I fucked up big time, I hurt my friends, and now I have to try making up for it the only way I can."

Because, clearly, writing an actual redemption arc would require characters with actual mature moral principles, and we all know those aren't allowed around here anymore.

(Reply to this)

	kirke_novak 2009-08-22 12:35 pm UTC (link)
	To quote Frankie Boyle: "There's nothing on the internet I won't masturbate to" (Reply to this)