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trueredorion (trueredorion) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-08-20 20:08:00

Entry tags:

char: iron man/tony stark, char: thor, creator: patrick zircher, publisher: marvel comics

Zircher's Iron Man
The variant cover to Invincible Iron Man #20 under the cut.

I love the art but knowing Fraction this will end with Thor forgiving Tony while completely white-washing Tony's involvement in any wrongdoing like he's did with the Spider-Man guest-appearance and his continued use of Hill.

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Re: *sniff*

arilou_skiff
2009-08-21 09:13 am UTC (link)

I think Tony *shouldn't* admit that he's wrong, or at least not entirely.

Mind, bear with me a bit here, Tony should go "Well, that didn't work. Oh well, time to think up something better, might have to re-jig a few ideas, refine the plan a bit. When something's not working you try to figure out why and then make the approporiate adjustments."

Mind, i kind of see Tony as a symbol for Modernity, with all the problems and weirdness inherent in that. He is Progress and Self Improvement and all that (Captain America got his powers from others, Spidey got his by accident, mutants were born with theirs... Tony *built* his) He's not just a scientist, like Reed, who is pretty much content to discover stuff for their own sake: He's an engineer, with an engineer's mindset. He wants to make things that work and watch them in the real world.

And he is as much a *social* engineer as a technical one.

And that's the thing, really, that's his biggest flaw and his greatest asset: Cap tries to fight evil where it is, Tony to some degree tries to "fix" problems on a deeper level. Cap is leading by example and inspiration, hoping to make people realize their potential and change their lives. Tony rifles around in the hodgepodge of motivations and incentives and tries to figure out a way to make people act differently.

The problem is of course that Tony isn't as rational as he might think (he has a slew of personal emotional issues) and neither are other people. So he's going to fail spectacularly, quite often. But he'll keep trying, because that's what he does.

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Hmmm I agree with you on some points

jazzypom
2009-08-21 09:29 am UTC (link)

*puts away lace knitting that's effing with my ish*

Mind, bear with me a bit here, Tony should go "Well, that didn't work. Oh well, time to think up something better, might have to re-jig a few ideas, refine the plan a bit. When something's not working you try to figure out why and then make the approporiate adjustments."

Fair enough, here, re: the SHRA what it stood for on paper, but the fact that he used Thor's cells to commit a henious crime in his name (the Chor thing was really appalling) I can see why Thor would be carrying around a mad for Tony, true fax. Also, for Tony's being a slave to modernity doesn't mean that he should have sacrificed some sort of well... I don't want to use the word 'morality' because that's not what I'm looking for, but even with science and such there's the whole 'ethics' argument that can be argued. If they had shown Tony arguing with that form of ethics instead of him and Reed going better and geeing each other on, it might have been a better story.

Mind, i kind of see Tony as a symbol for Modernity, with all the problems and weirdness inherent in that.

No argument here. Tony is convergence in the best and worst ways. He's science, math, money and humanity all in one. He's a powerful man, and to his credit, he has tried to adhere to the maxim about absolute power and all its inherent problems, but... with CW he went off the rails, and the thing with Tony Stark is... at the end of the day, he knew when to man up, when to take a step back and apologise or make amends. He did it with his drinking, with his armour, with his friends, and Fraction not getting that is vexing. Tony mans up. He just... doesn't do that here.

The problem is of course that Tony isn't as rational as he might think (he has a slew of personal emotional issues) and neither are other people. So he's going to fail spectacularly, quite often. But he'll keep trying, because that's what he does.

True, to quote jwaneeta (an lj poster) Tony Stark is a mess, he knows that he's a mess, but he keeps trying anyway. I get that, but Tony is a man who's self aware enough to know if he's gone too far, and makes amends if he has to. He's also a man of The Great Gesture though - so him autobrain deleting himself shouldn't probably surprise me, because it's his way of wearing sackcloth and ashes - but I wish the story that Fraction's writing wouldn't bore or vex me so.

*cue people going "You hate Fraction because of the Tony/Pepper *

*sighs *

I hate people.

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Re: Hmmm I agree with you on some points

kd_the_movie
2009-08-21 10:33 am UTC (link)

I think you've nothing to worry about. Fraction may be a fan favorite, but "Invincible" has been slipping fast since "The Five Nightmares" (and even that story wasn't all that great). Larocca's art doesn't make it any better. What's sad is that the cover for Invincible Iron Man #4 featured Larocca art sans the weird inking he does in the interior. AND IT WAS FUCKING BEAUTIFUL. Why can't he keep that up again?

And god do I hate Tony/Pepper. It's too skeevy and weird for words.

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Tony killed her husband

jazzypom
2009-08-21 10:48 am UTC (link)

Granted it was euthanasia and I'm all for it - but for them to be banging like bunnies over the fact - ewwww.

I think you've nothing to worry about. Fraction may be a fan favorite, but "Invincible" has been slipping fast since "The Five Nightmares" (and even that story wasn't all that great).<.i>

I notice that the fans who came to IM from the movie love Fraction's take, and the fans who've been around since squat, don't (it's a GENERALIZATION, and anecdotal, so plz not to be jumping on jp, thx). I just... yeah. I dropped the comic after The Five Nightmares. Read the summaries, and it sounds good in summary, but when I flip through the comic in the store, I just... put it back. Yuck. Einser award winning my a---

Larocca's art doesn't make it any better. What's sad is that the cover for Invincible Iron Man #4 featured Larocca art sans the weird inking he does in the interior. AND IT WAS FUCKING BEAUTIFUL. Why can't he keep that up again?

Unprofessional, that's what it is. What I can't see is how the editor can't see that the art is crap and doesn't suit any comic book at all. I know that people are all 'da'www' over Fraction because he's cute and to much of a nice guy (given his new 'weight' as the Marvel Golden Boy) to have a come to jesus moment with the artist. But Jesus, Larocca's work is just... terrible, true facts.

Oh well, it's £3.00 less a month that I have to pay. Cheers for that, Marvel.

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	eh. jazzypom 2009-08-21 10:48 am UTC (link)
	Html fail, my bad. Doing this from a dodgy pc (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Tony killed her husband darkknightjrk 2009-08-21 07:26 pm UTC (link)
	The story hasn't been too bad for me, and I don't recall REALLY diving into his stories until post-movie, so I guess that works. "Tony killed her husband" ...What. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Basically

jazzypom
2009-08-21 07:32 pm UTC (link)

Happy was a vegetable in the hospital, and Pepper beseeched Tony to erm... use his extremis skills to do the deed. In the comic it's a sort of grey area if he killed Happy or not (the man was like a Terry Shivago, all in a vegetative state and whatnot, and Pepper couldn't do the deed herself).

So, they have Happy's dead body between them, and the rest of it, but just boink like rabbits anyway, because they had this unrequited love way back in the comics, and Fraction brings it back now.

Ugh.

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	Re: Basically angelophile 2009-08-21 11:35 pm UTC (link)
	You what?! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Basically ashtoreth 2009-08-22 05:17 am UTC (link)
	I always assumed it would be one of the sins that gets thrown at Tony when judgement finally comes. It had that kind of feel. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: Hmmm I agree with you on some points pensive1 2009-08-21 03:40 pm UTC (link)
	And god do I hate Tony/Pepper. It's too skeevy and weird for words. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Hmmm I agree with you on some points neuhallidae 2009-08-21 09:34 pm UTC (link)
	Seconded. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Hmmm I agree with you on some points

jazzypom
2009-08-22 08:07 am UTC (link)

And god do I hate Tony/Pepper. It's too skeevy and weird for words.

Thirded, but let me clarify- back in the books the two had that whole starcrossed lovers going on between them. Tony was in love with Pepper to the point of madness, but held back because of his dicky heart. Pepper was in love with Tony and got over it and found Happy - so, they had their chance back in the day, but that ship sailed, water went under that bridge and a whole host of metaphors.

They are different people now than they were then, with a lot of history and baggage and the rest of it. So for Fraction to try and make it happen (someone said that it might be editorial mandate to tie in with the movie, to this I say, make it STOP) at this point in time, especially after civil war, etc... it's just alarming.

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