InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "The who whating how with huh?"

cyberghostface (cyberghostface) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-08-13 12:34:00

Current mood:	apathetic
Entry tags:	char: chameleon/dmitri smerdyakov, char: green goblin/harry osborn, char: mary jane watson, char: spider-man/peter parker, creator: barry kitson, creator: fred van lente, creator: j.m. dematteis, creator: luke ross, title: amazing spider-man

Amazing Spider-Man #602

So basically, the Chameleon's back in town. Now he's sadistically dipping people into acid after taking their identities away from them. He wants to infilitrate Mayor Jonah's inner circle, so he kidnaps Peter Parker (who's working for Jonah at the moment.)

Meanwhile, Chameleon is mimicking Peter's voice while spraying him in the face with some sort of adhesive(?) that makes a mask out of the face.

Anyone else getting a feeling of déjà vu?

And then there's Paul Jenkins' Webspinners arc where Chameleon went after MJ as Pete. So this makes it, what, the third time this has happened?

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box_in_the_box
2009-08-13 08:00 pm UTC (link)

For some reason, argueing with you feels like debate class, this is not an insult, it's awesome.

... I actually really appreciate that. Thank you so much. :)

That hermaphrodite things seems a bit of a stretch there, I mean you could argue that's just after effects of teh Goblin Serum.

Oh, I agree that it's the result of the Goblin Serum, but I'm still saying, when Lily initially turned into Menace, it was all but explicitly on-panel canon that she was growing a dick in the process.

The problem with Kids Friendly is that it's hard as hell to publish in the Event that's going now, it's a dark ass event that deals witha lot of big issues.

I'll agree that it's a dark event, and I'll even agree that there should be a place for comics that deal with big and unpleasant issues, but the problem is that I don't see Marvel as having dealt with the big issues, as much as they simply reference big issues as an excuse to do dark events. I'd actually LIKE to see a comic that dealt with the CONSEQUENCES of an effort to try and license superheroes, or the CONSEQUENCES of an evil man gaining power over the political and military process, but a) those stories have already been written many times before, and written very well at times, and b) more importantly, Marvel hasn't really told any of those stories here, because they haven't bothered to consider or acknowledge the natural consequences of their own plot points (just as one example, Colbert is a character in the Marvel Universe, and yet, if Norman Osborn existed in the real world, Colbert and Stewart both would have DESTROYED his reputation by now).

Honestly, they should have never said "It's for Kids" when they clearly can't pull it off now.

Nobody held a gun to Quesada's head and forced him to say that he retconned Spidey "for the kids." That's 100-percent on him, and as such, he deserves every single bit of criticism he's receiving for it. Once again, you don't get to blame your company's problems on the boss who oversaw them when YOU are the boss who oversaw them.

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punishermax
2009-08-13 08:13 pm UTC (link)

Following through on major events is an issue with both DC AND Marvel. DC hasen't even BEGAN to give a good estimation of the world after Final Crisis and Marvel just sucks ass at showing the world after and event.

Dark Reign is more than likely the best we're gonna get with that. It's not a singular big EVENT like an invasion or a war it's an administration.

Osbourne is a lot smarter than people give him credit for. As nutbar crazy as he is, he's also a brillaint scientist AND an amazing bullshitter and dickhead. All combined he's basically the perfect man for this event.

Norman knows how to play people, Colbert and Stewart could never touch him because he has resources far beyond our President. Not in terms of pure power, but in plausible deneyability. He;s sneaky but in a way that is impossible to pin down. You can call him out but he can easily outtalk you and then have you secretly killed.

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box_in_the_box
2009-08-13 08:47 pm UTC (link)

Following through on major events is an issue with both DC AND Marvel.

Agreed.

Dark Reign is more than likely the best we're gonna get with that.

Watchmen and Squadron Supreme, among others, prove that this does not have to be the case. I refuse to excuse any story for being "the best of a bad lot."

As nutbar crazy as he is, he's also a brillaint scientist AND an amazing bullshitter and dickhead.

Not really, because even Matt Fraction pointed out that every "invention" of Norman's was either copied or stolen from someone else, up to and including the Goblin serum itself. Moreover, every single Marvel title right now shows him cracking up, BADLY, in PUBLIC, up to and including threatening to MURDER A CHILD at a photo op in the UN. He's neither a big brain nor a smooth personality. I'd actually rate even the RED SKULL higher on both counts.

Colbert and Stewart could never touch him because he has resources far beyond our President. Not in terms of pure power, but in plausible deneyability.

No. He murdered a string of young women, and uniformed police officers, in broad daylight, on live national television, and has been outed as the Green Goblin, with all that this implies. "Plausible deniability" does not mean what you think it means, because if you want to talk about "plausible deniability," it has been INDISPUTABLY PROVEN that Obama was born in this country, and yet, a significant percentage of this population STILL believes that he was born in Kenya and is a SEEKRIT MUSLIN TERRIRIST. Plausible deniability doesn't do SHIT to stop rumors, even when they're COMPLETELY impossible, whereas all that anybody who hates Norman has to do is upload the video clips of him going all Goblin ONTO YOUTUBE. EVERYTHING evil that Osborn did, before getting in good with the government, is PUBLIC RECORD. There is absolutely no way whatsoever, in any world that even remotely resembles reality, that Norman would get as far as he has. I mean, I'm sorry, but this isn't even a debatable point. The only way it could work is if every single American citizen was stupider than the most idiotic "birther," and more evil than the most unrepentant fascist skinhead. The only reason this plot works is because the writer says so, and that's absolutely the worst kind of writing.

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punishermax
2009-08-13 08:54 pm UTC (link)

Yeah but time and time again the Marvel public has been shown to be astonishingly moronic.

I meant that Dark Reing is the best we could get out of mainstream 616 Marvel in this time and age.

Norman has been cracking up but keep in mind, he has back up plans for that. He's got PR men up the ass to keep his shit together and any issue could be brought up as simply the pressure of the job.

But look how Norman got to where he is. I don't care how evil you are, if you are shown on NATIONAL TELEVISION to be the one to take the kill shot at the biggest threat to humanity in yearsm, you're gonna be a god damn hero in a lot of eyes, and he's already proven even better by "saving" the President from a copy cat Goblin.

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box_in_the_box
2009-08-13 09:07 pm UTC (link)

Yeah but time and time again the Marvel public has been shown to be astonishingly moronic.

No excuse. The entire defense for making superhero comics increasingly grim and gritty is that they're being made more "realistic" than they once were, when the violence was more like that of the campy Adam West Batman TV show. You don't get to have it both ways. Either you're grim and gritty because you're more "realistic," in which case you should BE more realistic, or else you're NOT trying to be more realistic, in which case there's no justification for being more grim and gritty.

I meant that Dark Reing is the best we could get out of mainstream 616 Marvel in this time and age.

If that's the case, then I feel totally justified in saying that mainstream 616 Marvel is utterly devoid of any redeeming virtues whatsoever right now. This is flat-out bad storytelling, no matter how much you try to excuse it.

He's got PR men up the ass to keep his shit together and any issue could be brought up as simply the pressure of the job.

Right, because Obama doesn't have ANY PR people, and neither did Bush, nor have any of their defenders EVER pointed out the pressures of THEIR jobs as president. PLEASE. You're not even being consistent with your OWN explanations now.

I don't care how evil you are, if you are shown on NATIONAL TELEVISION to be the one to take the kill shot at the biggest threat to humanity in years [...]

Plenty of people will STILL hate you, if your previous transgressions are severe enough. Ask Rudy Giuliani how well being the "hero" of 9/11 worked for his presidential bid. Your view of how this would work is fundamentally irreconcilable with proven human nature.

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cyberghostface
2009-08-13 08:59 pm UTC (link)

I have yet to read everything in Dark Reign, but Dark Avengers #5 showed how Norman could have fooled the public. Norman owned up to being the Goblin at one point, but has also twisted it a bit and saying that other people have been the Goblin at other points.

http://asylums.insanejournal.com/scans_daily/439278.html

Also, in Thunderbolts, he actually had someone pretend to be the Goblin and attack Obama, and have Norman save the day.

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box_in_the_box
2009-08-13 09:11 pm UTC (link)

Norman owned up to being the Goblin at one point, but has also twisted it a bit and saying that other people have been the Goblin at other points.

Once again, in a world where our current president is seriously accused of being A SEEKRIT MUSLIN TERRIRIST BORN IN AFRICA, in spite of all evidence to contrary, the fact that America would just fall to their knees and suck Norman Osborn's cock, on the basis that he wasn't the ONLY guy who was the Green Goblin, is fundamentally irreconcilable with reality. LOTS of people, INCLUDING those powerful enough to STOP Norman, would STILL have a problem with it.

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	ashtoreth 2009-08-13 09:24 pm UTC (link)
	Regarding Gobby's intelligence, The Goblin Legacy has stated that the Goblin formula made Osborn a genius, while also altering the way he thought--which is very different from the old explanation, "the goblin formula made him insane". (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-08-15 06:08 am UTC (link)

Kind of a cool twist, although any attempt to portray Norman as a genius is automatically hampered by the fact that he then spent the next however many years exclusively obsessed with a boy superhero who is regarded, within the Marvel universe itself, as strictly third-rate at best. You can't simultaneously portray Norman as an unstoppable super-genius and Peter as the "hero" who can't tie his own shoelaces without fucking up, because otherwise, Norman would have won a LONG time ago. If Marvel is going to insist that Norman is the most formidable villain this side of Thanos, then Peter MUST be recognized as an A-list, truly competent superhero, or IT DOESN'T WORK.

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