InsaneJournal

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starwolf_oakley (starwolf_oakley) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-08-05 17:37:00

Entry tags:

char: batgirl/oracle/barbara gordon, char: black canary/dinah lance, char: huntress/helena bertinelli, creator: gail simone, creator: joe bennett, title: birds of prey

BOP #68: A canary or a "mock"ing bird? or The Sexual History of Helena Bertinelli
The first page of Cry For Justice #2 has caused some controversy on this board and elsewhere. But it's not like that kind of "behavior" is unheard of in Huntress' history.

First, Babs and the girls talk about Savant, who kidnapped Black Canary and chained her to a ~~fridge~~ bed.

Uh-oh. Anyone know the exact issues?

This was revealed in OUTSIDERS #12, but not the circumstances. Nightwing must have told Oracle. Because that's not weird at all.

Ah, so Roy is "quick to let fly." No wonder Cheshire got pregnant!

Well, give she's now about Roy's age due to that Lazarus Pit dip, it's less "mother and son" these days.

How does that date go?

Sheesh, I thought they only kept the masks on in ULTIMATE or ALL-STAR stories. Supposedly Gail Simone wrote this so Helene could find realize she deserved better in the romance department. Is a threesome with Hal Jordan and Lady Blackhawk really better? Well, I doubt they'd keep their masks on.

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jaybee3
2009-08-06 03:07 am UTC (link)

I think the insinuation in Nightwing/Huntress was that Helena slept with Dick to get closer to Batman, but I don't have the exact verbage in front of me. Or it could have been after the fact that someone came up with that. I'm not entirely sure since the Dick/Helena fling has been portrayed by different writers in different ways (she wanted more/he wanted more/both that it was a mistake). It happened only once but it seems to get brought up a lot (in-comic) since then.

I know Tarantula was evil (thinking she was good) but I seem to recall the big debate at the time was because she very clearly seemed to have raped Dick when he was in no position to consent, yet Devin Grayson and DC (forget who edited NW at the time) started equivocating on whether it actually constituted "rape". And the fact that Tarantula basically controlled (for lack of a better term) an out-of-it NW for months didn't help either. It was a big debate at the time IIRC.

And I have resolved never to use the words "M*** S**" again. Everyone's right they have lost all meaning these days. Apologies all around.

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sistermagpie
2009-08-06 03:28 am UTC (link)

Now that people say it, I remember that now. She did want to get close to the Bat family. But the way I remember it it wasn't straight-out manipulation. More like she wanted to get close to Nightwing but did genuinely want to sleep with him since, why not? But in the end she told him that because once she got to know him she liked the relationship (such as it was) for itself.

But I totally remember the whole Mary Sue debate. I use the term myself, but usually only to refer to very specific things that I don't like in the canon. Like, there are characters that I wouldn't label a Mary Sue but I might point to a moment and say I didn't like it because it made them one in that scene by warping things in their favor. I was always a bit confused by it when referring to Tarantula. But then, I always considered it straight-up rape as well and thought any backpeddling was just creepy.

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aaron_bourque
2009-08-06 02:53 pm UTC (link)

I think the insinuation in Nightwing/Huntress was that Helena slept with Dick to get closer to Batman,

Wow. That's not the impression I got. Her whole seductress thing, and the way she always talked about Batman at the time, I got the impression that she was wrongheadedly trying to drive a wedge between Bruce and Dick, like she could somehow have an ally in Dick if his dick was in her. It didn't help that she was shotgunning her bile about Batman in almost every appearance she made at the time.

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