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bluefall (bluefall) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-06-02 23:27:00

Entry tags:

char: storm/ororo munroe, char: wonder woman/diana of themyscira, publisher: dc comics, publisher: marvel comics

If He Be Worthy
I have much more porn to post, I promise, but at the moment, I'm feeling a bit down over the Pens victory (look, I know they're a good team, I know we weren't going to sweep, but it was still a nice thought, you know?), so I thought I'd pull out a good pick-me-up I've had on tap for a while. I bring to you one of the few awesome things to come out of the Amalgam event - a Worthy Warrior.

Okay, yes, her Thor!costume is bloody stupid. But it's Diana. That sort of comes with the territory.

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bearing in mind that my Thor knowledge is limited to Simonson and some Avengers...

bluefall
2009-06-03 02:56 am UTC (link)

Current 616? I think Thor still has the Odinpower (because despite his exile, Thor can still move Asgard while Baldur can't), in which case Diana's boned. (Byrne-era full-blown-goddess Diana might have been a match for him, though; I haven't read enough Thor to really get a sense of what the Odinpower really entails).

Without the Odinpower... more complicated. Rumbles forums tend to put a lot of emphasis on the speed blitz, which is pretty fair - if you can move near the speed of light and your opponent can't, most other considerations become secondary, and while Thor's got above-human speed, you don't see him race Pietro or anything (and even if you did, Marvel fast is not like DC fast). There's also the she's-worthy-of-Mjolnir thing to consider - between the tiara and the lasso she's got significant range on him, which she can use to provoke him into throwing his hammer*, and if he does, she can just catch it and beat his head in. On the other hand, he punches harder than her even before you add in Mjolnir, and can take more damage**, and actually has martial training, so if it gets down to melee and lasts more than a round, he's going to come out on top.

So, assuming they're meeting for the first time on the battlefield, Thor wins - Diana never speed blitzes or attacks from range out-of-the-gate, always defaulting to realtime melee, so the advantage and the fight is Thor's. Assuming they're familiar with each other's powersets, though, Diana can manage a victory by fighting tactically and pulling out all the superspeed stops.

* Or summoning lighting, but the only time I've seen him do that, it appeared to have a casting time, and Diana could take it on the bracer anyway.
** Assuming average power levels. If Thor is Clark or Billy's match, he's stronger than Diana, which isn't consistent with Diana being able to pull a third of the Earth out of orbit (unless Thor's tossed planets around in something I haven't read, I admit my knowledge of him isn't nearly as extensive), but that's an outlier compared to their respective average performance, so I think it's still fair to say he's got her here.

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Re: bearing in mind that my Thor knowledge is limited to Simonson and some Avengers...

proteus_lives
2009-06-03 04:09 am UTC (link)

Interesting...

Whither Thor possesses the Odinpower is an important factor, it's presence makes WW's victory unlikely. Since with it, Thor is more then an equal to the Gods.

Strength? Also hard to gauge, Whither Thor is an equal to Supes or Captain Marvel is up to debate. Thor has stated that he only fights mortal foes with one-third of his strength. Would he consider WW a mortal foe or more godly? Thor has stood toe-to-toe with the Hulk, Hercules, Juggernaut, Wrecker and other +100 class foes. I don't know enough about WW's strength levels to compare. I'm assuming she's at least +90 class. (+tons)

Since both have vast levels of combat experience, strength is less important then other fights. Your comment on WW's speed is really important, since I think she faster then Thor. (But he might counter that moving speed with lightning teleportation)

Worthy-of-Mjolnir? A thinker, because WW is certainly worthy of carrying the hammer but while Thor is awake and not one the ground? I'm a little uncertain on the current rules but even if WW grabbed the hammer mid-flight, Thor could probably merely summon it back to him.

Lasso: How would this affect Thor? Magically I mean. Thor is virtuous and honest, does that revert the lasso to the role of unbreakable rope?

I think (and agree with you) that WW's best chance is to keep the fight moving, try to lead Thor into a tactical trap. If she stands toe-to-toe, she's not going to take it. But Thor often thinks with his heart, he underestimates WW or her weapons, he might be toast. He's also in trouble if he loses his cool. From what I've seen of the two, WW has a better track record of keeping her focus.

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bluefall
2009-06-03 10:44 am UTC (link)

Well, the thing about comparative strength is that you can't really do it between Marvel and DC. To some extent, all heroes are basically as strong as they need to be, but that's more explicitly true at DC than at Marvel - Marvel stats out their heroes, DC just wings it. Clark has done stuff like helped pull celestial bodies around, which is way, way more than 100 tons, but he's also struggled to hold a train car over his head. Bruce can take a hit from the General without even flinching, or he can get cold-cocked by an ordinary thug. So the only way to get a sense of relative DC power levels is actual trial-by-combat - who can beat who. That puts Thor in Billy and Clark's weight class: Thor fought Billy during Amalgam, and they were evenly matched until Thor pulled the lightning trick, and Thor fought Clark during JLA/AVENGERS, and Clark beat him by a nose.

As for Mjonlir possession, he wasn't able to get the hammer back from Bill during their initial fight, but that was during his "sixty seconds to Donald Blake" period, so I'm not sure if that'd still be true or not. Good point. How the lasso effects Thor is less dubious; if the goal is a beat-down, the only power that really matters is the pliability and unbreakability (well, also she can use it to dismember things, but she's highly unlikely to do so to Thor, and really the only relevant thing is whether she can get it around him in the first place, since restraint is as good as removal), which traits don't really care who they're aimed at.

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Re: bearing in mind that my Thor knowledge is limited to Simonson and some Avengers...

sir_razorback
2009-06-03 11:05 am UTC (link)

Probably the worst possible effect (potentially, depending on the writer) of the Lasso around Thor would be 'revealing the truth' and reverting him to Donald Blake. We could go 'round and 'round debating what his true form is (personally I think of him as Thor = true, DB = the disguise), but it would come down to who wrote the story. I think you could also have a 'clash of magic' in that event, with the Lasso's magic in direct conflict with Mjolnr's.

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	Re: bearing in mind that my Thor knowledge is limited to Simonson and some Avengers... trueredorion 2009-06-03 05:06 am UTC (link)
	Non-Odinpower Thor's destroyed a planet before with pure strength. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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