InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "DARLING!"

bluefall (bluefall) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-06-02 23:27:00

Entry tags:

char: storm/ororo munroe, char: wonder woman/diana of themyscira, publisher: dc comics, publisher: marvel comics

If He Be Worthy
I have much more porn to post, I promise, but at the moment, I'm feeling a bit down over the Pens victory (look, I know they're a good team, I know we weren't going to sweep, but it was still a nice thought, you know?), so I thought I'd pull out a good pick-me-up I've had on tap for a while. I bring to you one of the few awesome things to come out of the Amalgam event - a Worthy Warrior.

Okay, yes, her Thor!costume is bloody stupid. But it's Diana. That sort of comes with the territory.

(Post a new comment)

	seriousfic 2009-06-02 10:41 pm UTC (link)
	Now I want fanart of Thor picking up his hammer and getting Diana's Thor!costume. It's only fair. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	trueredorion 2009-06-03 02:28 am UTC (link)
	He's already wearing a belly shirt at this time. And for about a dozen issues right before this in his own title his costume was him walking around completely shirtless. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	l_arlesienne 2009-06-03 04:54 am UTC (link)
	I personally would like to see him in the metal bikini bottom. Because that would be funny. And painful, most likely. But still funny. Maybe a tad sexy too. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	trueredorion 2009-06-03 05:35 am UTC (link)
	It'd have to be one big metal bikini bottom. There's a reason Sif picked him over a horse-like alien. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	squirle 2009-06-03 08:46 am UTC (link)
	Not entirely what you asked for, but its as good an excuse as any to repost this: (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	liarashadowsong 2009-06-03 06:21 pm UTC (link)
	giggle (Reply to this) (Parent)

	darklorelei 2009-06-02 10:47 pm UTC (link)
	Hey, now we can win at home! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	bluefall 2009-06-03 12:37 am UTC (link)
	Heh. Yeah, that's what my brother said. As long as we don't win it in six, I guess. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	lieut_kettch 2009-06-02 11:00 pm UTC (link)
	Thank the gods you didn't post the outcome of the Storm/Wonder Woman fight. Such things are best left forgotten. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	shadwing 2009-06-02 11:30 pm UTC (link)
	That was one of the fan-voted outcomes wasn't it? Gah... (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	freezer818 2009-06-02 11:53 pm UTC (link)
	Yes. Yes it was. I second the thanks for not posting it. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	freezer818 2009-06-02 11:54 pm UTC (link)
	The end of the fight didn't bug me nearly as much as the beginning. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	bluefall 2009-06-03 12:38 am UTC (link)
	Hey, I said I was posting the awesome, didn't I? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	unknownscribler 2009-06-03 03:26 am UTC (link)
	That at least made some vague sort of sense compared to the Wolverine/Lobo fight. (Reply to this) (Parent)

squirle
2009-06-03 08:44 am UTC (link)

You know, Wondy got beaten far to easily in that fight, but I don't have a problem with Storm winning actually. I mean, she can control the weather, on a global level according to some interpretations. That makes her one of the most powerful metahumans around (outside of cosmic level characters). So it just depends on how invulnerable Wondy's invulnerability is, which has always been a bit plotdependant.

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	retro_nouveau 2009-06-02 11:02 pm UTC (link)
	Then there was the time the inscription said, "Whosoever shall pull this sword from this stone..." and that's how she became King of England. And still her costume changed into something even more bloody stupid. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	bluefall 2009-06-03 03:02 am UTC (link)
	Don't make me post CAMELOT 3000, Retro. Because I will, if I have to. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	rdfox 2009-06-02 11:47 pm UTC (link)
	Don't worry, this way, we get to win at home... ;-) (Reply to this)

	I wish to ask a question. proteus_lives 2009-06-02 11:49 pm UTC (link)
	This post got me thinking. Who would win in a knock-down, all-out fight between Thor and Wonder Woman? I would be very interested in hearing your opinion because quite honestly, I've never encountered anyone with more WW knowledge. Setting: Open ground. Weapons: All in, hammer, lasso, the works. Versions: current 616 and DC heroes. What do you think? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: I wish to ask a question. freezer818 2009-06-02 11:56 pm UTC (link)
	Thor would outlast Diana, but he'd take a beating in the process. Especially given his tendency to lead with his face at the start of fights. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: I wish to ask a question. bluefall 2009-06-03 02:55 am UTC (link)
	Heheh. Battle of "whose armor is more useless." (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: I wish to ask a question. unknownscribler 2009-06-03 03:22 am UTC (link)
	Depends entirely on which version of Thor we're talking about -- if it's the one who loses the transformation when out of reach of his hammer for too long, he's absolutely boned. If he gets lassoed, he's quite likely boned regardless of the version. If he manages to lightning strike Diana a couple of times, then he's going to win it. (Reply to this) (Parent)

bearing in mind that my Thor knowledge is limited to Simonson and some Avengers...

bluefall
2009-06-03 02:56 am UTC (link)

Current 616? I think Thor still has the Odinpower (because despite his exile, Thor can still move Asgard while Baldur can't), in which case Diana's boned. (Byrne-era full-blown-goddess Diana might have been a match for him, though; I haven't read enough Thor to really get a sense of what the Odinpower really entails).

Without the Odinpower... more complicated. Rumbles forums tend to put a lot of emphasis on the speed blitz, which is pretty fair - if you can move near the speed of light and your opponent can't, most other considerations become secondary, and while Thor's got above-human speed, you don't see him race Pietro or anything (and even if you did, Marvel fast is not like DC fast). There's also the she's-worthy-of-Mjolnir thing to consider - between the tiara and the lasso she's got significant range on him, which she can use to provoke him into throwing his hammer*, and if he does, she can just catch it and beat his head in. On the other hand, he punches harder than her even before you add in Mjolnir, and can take more damage**, and actually has martial training, so if it gets down to melee and lasts more than a round, he's going to come out on top.

So, assuming they're meeting for the first time on the battlefield, Thor wins - Diana never speed blitzes or attacks from range out-of-the-gate, always defaulting to realtime melee, so the advantage and the fight is Thor's. Assuming they're familiar with each other's powersets, though, Diana can manage a victory by fighting tactically and pulling out all the superspeed stops.

* Or summoning lighting, but the only time I've seen him do that, it appeared to have a casting time, and Diana could take it on the bracer anyway.
** Assuming average power levels. If Thor is Clark or Billy's match, he's stronger than Diana, which isn't consistent with Diana being able to pull a third of the Earth out of orbit (unless Thor's tossed planets around in something I haven't read, I admit my knowledge of him isn't nearly as extensive), but that's an outlier compared to their respective average performance, so I think it's still fair to say he's got her here.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: bearing in mind that my Thor knowledge is limited to Simonson and some Avengers...

proteus_lives
2009-06-03 04:09 am UTC (link)

Interesting...

Whither Thor possesses the Odinpower is an important factor, it's presence makes WW's victory unlikely. Since with it, Thor is more then an equal to the Gods.

Strength? Also hard to gauge, Whither Thor is an equal to Supes or Captain Marvel is up to debate. Thor has stated that he only fights mortal foes with one-third of his strength. Would he consider WW a mortal foe or more godly? Thor has stood toe-to-toe with the Hulk, Hercules, Juggernaut, Wrecker and other +100 class foes. I don't know enough about WW's strength levels to compare. I'm assuming she's at least +90 class. (+tons)

Since both have vast levels of combat experience, strength is less important then other fights. Your comment on WW's speed is really important, since I think she faster then Thor. (But he might counter that moving speed with lightning teleportation)

Worthy-of-Mjolnir? A thinker, because WW is certainly worthy of carrying the hammer but while Thor is awake and not one the ground? I'm a little uncertain on the current rules but even if WW grabbed the hammer mid-flight, Thor could probably merely summon it back to him.

Lasso: How would this affect Thor? Magically I mean. Thor is virtuous and honest, does that revert the lasso to the role of unbreakable rope?

I think (and agree with you) that WW's best chance is to keep the fight moving, try to lead Thor into a tactical trap. If she stands toe-to-toe, she's not going to take it. But Thor often thinks with his heart, he underestimates WW or her weapons, he might be toast. He's also in trouble if he loses his cool. From what I've seen of the two, WW has a better track record of keeping her focus.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

bluefall
2009-06-03 10:44 am UTC (link)

Well, the thing about comparative strength is that you can't really do it between Marvel and DC. To some extent, all heroes are basically as strong as they need to be, but that's more explicitly true at DC than at Marvel - Marvel stats out their heroes, DC just wings it. Clark has done stuff like helped pull celestial bodies around, which is way, way more than 100 tons, but he's also struggled to hold a train car over his head. Bruce can take a hit from the General without even flinching, or he can get cold-cocked by an ordinary thug. So the only way to get a sense of relative DC power levels is actual trial-by-combat - who can beat who. That puts Thor in Billy and Clark's weight class: Thor fought Billy during Amalgam, and they were evenly matched until Thor pulled the lightning trick, and Thor fought Clark during JLA/AVENGERS, and Clark beat him by a nose.

As for Mjonlir possession, he wasn't able to get the hammer back from Bill during their initial fight, but that was during his "sixty seconds to Donald Blake" period, so I'm not sure if that'd still be true or not. Good point. How the lasso effects Thor is less dubious; if the goal is a beat-down, the only power that really matters is the pliability and unbreakability (well, also she can use it to dismember things, but she's highly unlikely to do so to Thor, and really the only relevant thing is whether she can get it around him in the first place, since restraint is as good as removal), which traits don't really care who they're aimed at.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: bearing in mind that my Thor knowledge is limited to Simonson and some Avengers...

sir_razorback
2009-06-03 11:05 am UTC (link)

Probably the worst possible effect (potentially, depending on the writer) of the Lasso around Thor would be 'revealing the truth' and reverting him to Donald Blake. We could go 'round and 'round debating what his true form is (personally I think of him as Thor = true, DB = the disguise), but it would come down to who wrote the story. I think you could also have a 'clash of magic' in that event, with the Lasso's magic in direct conflict with Mjolnr's.

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	Re: bearing in mind that my Thor knowledge is limited to Simonson and some Avengers... trueredorion 2009-06-03 05:06 am UTC (link)
	Non-Odinpower Thor's destroyed a planet before with pure strength. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	arbre_rieur 2009-06-03 12:00 am UTC (link)
	This was written -- if such a word can even be used for such a hack -- by Peter David, wasn't it? As such, wouldn't it be illegal? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	bluefall 2009-06-03 12:35 am UTC (link)
	Um, shit. Possibly. He and Marz are co-credited fairly vaguely. I'll flock, and ask the mods if they want me to pull it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	schmevil 2009-06-03 07:34 am UTC (link)
	Sorry, if it is indeed PAD, then it's gotta come down. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bluefall 2009-06-03 10:28 am UTC (link)
	Well, I'm not sure it is, is the thing - I dropped y'all an email about it. PAD's not credited on the issues I got these from, just the other two. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Modly Reminder schmevil 2009-06-03 07:38 am UTC (link)
	I'm not sure if I'd characterize 'hack' as an attack on his character, but it's entering a gray zone. So just keep in mind that we want to keep criticism focused on the work, not the creator. :) (This is not an official warning, btw). (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mullon 2009-06-03 12:04 am UTC (link)
	Damn. And that panty thing is made out of metal too. (Reply to this)

hyaroo
2009-06-03 03:14 am UTC (link)

That entire story was a huge mess. The premise is incredibly stupid, and the fact that all the battles were determined by fan votes led to some really idiotic solutions... not to mention, there were so many of the battles that the comic only had room to give each battle two or three pages... often with oversized images and half-pages.

The entire "Diana with Thor's hammer" idea is a perfect example of the problems with the story: They set it up and then do nothing at all with it, because there's no room in the story. The only thing we get is a couple of panels with Wonder Woman sporting an even more ridiculous-looking costume than usual, and then she throws the hammer away. The "what the HELL was the point of that?!" factor is enormous.

The one good thing that came out of all this was the Amalgam universe.

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	bluefall 2009-06-03 12:55 pm UTC (link)
	Nah. Establishing that Diana qualifies as worthy was a good thing. The Robin/Jubilee stuff was a good thing. Hulk dropping the giant penny in the Batcave on the Molemen was fantastic. It had its moments. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bariman1987 2009-06-03 06:10 pm UTC (link)
	I thought Aquaman dropping a whale on Namor was pretty funny myself. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mysteryfan 2009-06-03 03:38 am UTC (link)
	Okay, that is one sexy ARRRHH! panel when Diana first um... proves herself worthy by grasping the hammer. (First full page scan, last panel.) Wow. I think it might be even better 'love the weapon time' than that one where Batman's tied to and riding a giant pink bullet. (Reply to this)

	unknownscribler 2009-06-03 03:41 am UTC (link)
	(Reply to this) (Thread)

	l_arlesienne 2009-06-03 05:00 am UTC (link)
	Far more awesome and less of an eyesore. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	unknownscribler 2009-06-03 05:07 am UTC (link)
	Try this: (Reply to this) (Parent)

	thormonger 2009-06-03 04:49 am UTC (link)
	I think I missed this when it came out, because I don't recall Thor's costume looking so hideous. Not that Wonder Woman's Thor-costume is all that much better. Could there be any less of her iron underwear and remain a SFL rating? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	trueredorion 2009-06-03 05:49 am UTC (link)
	Thor only wore that costume in his own series for one issue (the last issue before Onslaught), it was actually used more often in Avengers. (Reply to this) (Parent)

bariman1987
2009-06-03 06:19 pm UTC (link)

Well of course Diana of all people would be able to lift it. It's Diana. That costume though... *shiver* I can't imagine metal panties would be confortable to anyone, so hopefully those are just some metallic-colored fabric panties. 'Cause seriously, ow.

I was reading the Heroic Bystander article on TV Tropes the other day (I won't link it to try to save people several hours of their lives), and it mentioned that one of the very few people who could pick up the hammer was some random paramedic, who handed it to Thor after an Avengers fight. Anyone know what issue that was, and maybe post it?

(Reply to this)