InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "I'm your father!"

Rhythm Bandit (rhythmbandit) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-11-12 19:48:00

Current music:	The Advantage - "Ducktales, Moon"
Entry tags:	char: catwoman/holly robinson, char: catwoman/selina kyle, creator: ed brubaker, creator: eric shanower

A page from Catwoman Secret Files and Origins
ETA: I just realized part of this has already been posted.
You can read it here, where people already answered many questions that came up. I didn't think there was a chance someone had posted it already...that'll teach me to assume.

So I was reading some posts about Batman and Catwoman here, which reminded me how much I like Selina. Then I found espanolbot 's posts on Ed Brubaker's Catwoman, which reminded me how awesome they were. Anyway, I don't have more Catwoman, but I do have this short bit from The Comics Journal #263 that I think everyone will appreciate.

"Why Holly Isn't Dead", from Catwoman Secret Files & Origins. Art by Eric Shanower, story by Ed Brubaker.

Oh Holly!

I just got a scanner and I have a bunch of things I'd like to share. I don't have many Superhero comics, just Joss Whedon's Sugar Shock oneshot, the Batman "A Lonely Place of Dying" storyline and some random single issues. I do have Toshihiro Ono's Pokemon series, which is kinda fun. I do have a lot of alternative comix and manga, stuff like Sandman, Ron Rege Jr., Vagabond, Crayon Shin Chan, Love and Rockets, etc. Any requests?

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	ex_darkblade992 2009-11-13 01:29 am UTC (link)
	Ugh did Catwoman really wear /all/ of those before? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	foxhack 2009-11-13 01:33 am UTC (link)
	I think the second outfit is supposed to be a riff on Vampirella. And #4 looks like something Jim Balent would draw. :p (Reply to this) (Parent)

	manofbats 2009-11-13 01:43 am UTC (link)
	I think it's meant to be a "things could be worse" jab at people who complain about how practical costumes are. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-11-13 01:47 am UTC (link)
	Yeah. I mean, she could we be wearing Jim Lee's Huntress outfit. shudders (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	manofbats 2009-11-13 01:50 am UTC (link)
	xdoop here would be the subject of the jab. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-11-13 01:56 am UTC (link)
	So you think Huntress's Jim Lee outfit is more comparable to Catwoman's full-body outfit than it it is to the ugly ones she's trying on? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	manofbats 2009-11-13 02:20 am UTC (link)
	I don't think it's ugly, and I don't like it, but I'm not about to write Dan Didio about how angry it makes me that her tummy is showing because it doesn't. It's a superhero costume, practicality does not apply. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	nevermore999 2009-11-13 02:21 am UTC (link)
	...but Catwoman's costume in the Brubaker era IS practical. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	manofbats 2009-11-13 02:25 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, but the entire time Holly is ranting on and on Selina is trying on these horrendous costumes, yet she doesn't notice or care, which is pretty much the Huntress costume debate in a nutshell. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	scottyquick 2009-11-13 02:31 am UTC (link)
	Selina's playing dress up in a mirror, though. (Reply to this) (Parent)

nevermore999
2009-11-13 02:31 am UTC (link)

Except it's really not? I don't understand your argument. I think she was just trying on the costume to be silly- or else poke fun at anyone criticizing her currrent costume- and the fans critisisms of the current costume at the time had nothing to do with practicality. In fact, it's more likely the argument was saying "Hey, you don't like Catwoman's new costume? At least it isn't a horrendous ugly looking striptease?"

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

manofbats
2009-11-13 02:35 am UTC (link)

Ok, consider Holly the group against Huntress's costume.

Selina's responses are from the creators.

Selina's costumes are other characters in comic books.

The group against the Huntress costume are ranting on and on like Holly all the while ignoring costumes worn by other characters that are far more revealing and less practical. Then the creators give reasonable responses like Catwoman is giving Holly, but are falling on deaf ears.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-11-13 03:44 am UTC (link)
	"Hey, you don't like Catwoman's new costume? At least it isn't a horrendous ugly looking striptease?" makes more sense. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	manofbats 2009-11-13 04:20 am UTC (link)
	All of Huntress's costumes have been hideous messes. This one looks better because we can see some tummy and thigh. (Reply to this) (Parent)

nevermore999
2009-11-13 04:13 am UTC (link)

Except the group against Huntress's costume aren't ignoring costumes that are more revealing and less practical, they complain about those other costumes too . And Holly isn't ranting about costumes, she's talking about character resurrections and the responses Catwoman is giving are pertaining to this. And the Huntress costume argument hadn't even started when this was written. Annnnd you're really just twisting this comic around so that agrees with you, even though it makes no sense.

This is a parody of the fans complaining about Holly showing up again when she's supposed to be dead. And Catwoman's trying on silly costumes, possibly in response to fans complaining about her new costume "Not being sexy enough" or the fans complaining about the costume change being arbitrary. Which is really the exact opposite of defending Huntress's "sexy" costume.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

manofbats
2009-11-13 04:17 am UTC (link)

Except I wasn't saying the comic was talking about the Huntress costume fiasco, I was comparing it to that because I noticed similarities. Annnd you're really just twisting what I'm saying around so you can argue with me.

And yes, the people against the Huntress costume are ignoring other costumes. The mere fact that there are worse costumes out there, but they choose to focus on this one in particular is ridiculous and that's why nobody outside their group takes them seriously.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-11-13 07:22 am UTC (link)
	that's why nobody outside their group takes them seriously. And what makes you think that? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	khamelea 2009-11-13 07:57 am UTC (link)
	The manobat worldwide opinion poll on stuff about which YOU ARE WRONG. Updated 24/7 as the results come on! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	khamelea 2009-11-13 07:58 am UTC (link)
	Come in. Not come on. Two sentences and I still typo. (Reply to this) (Parent)

thebigapricot
2009-11-13 11:39 am UTC (link)

And yes, the people against the Huntress costume are ignoring other costumes. The mere fact that there are worse costumes out there, but they choose to focus on this one in particular is ridiculous and that's why nobody outside their group takes them seriously.

There are a lot of costumes that show more skin than the Hush/Huntress. The issue with this costume is that it is impractical for the job. Huntress is not a meta. She is fighting criminals who use weapons. Her costume should be practical. It is not. It makes her stomach a target for bullets and arrows.

What's worse is that she had a somewhat practical costume (that "somewhat" being aware that there will probably ALWAYS be some fan service in female costumes in comics) and it was changed to the Hush one. And then it was changed back to a practical one and then it was changed again to this impractical one. And the excuse for the change has never been about its practicality but rather what the comic book creator, in this case Tony Daniel, liked. Specifically he said:

"Um let's see - the Huntress I went to Jim's design for 2 reasons, the first is I feel it is sexier and she pops more. The other costume is too much black, which is fine, but in the book there's so much black already. And I like showing some skin when I can"

More infuriating is that Daniel's choice to put her back in this outfit was used by another writer to mock the character.

I don't actually have a problem with Catwoman's various body exposing costumes. Catwoman is not a crime fighter. But when she has been a crime fighter, say, in her stint in the Outsiders or some of her activities during her later run, her costume was practical. It was one piece and fully covered her.

And if there is actually a group against the Hush costume I would assume it is the group known as "people with taste and good sense"

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	manofbats 2009-11-13 05:50 pm UTC (link)
	I'm sorry, but none of those are valid points. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	thebigapricot 2009-11-13 07:11 pm UTC (link)
	Oh but they are valid. You just disagree with them. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	manofbats 2009-11-13 07:34 pm UTC (link)
	No, I agree with a couple of them actually. I just have the benefit of perspective. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	scottyquick 2009-11-14 12:43 am UTC (link)
	I'm sorry you can't see what's valid and what's not. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sailorlibra 2009-11-13 02:34 am UTC (link)
	Mostly practical. The zipper's debatable. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	rhythmbandit 2009-11-13 03:20 am UTC (link)
	The zipper is more practical for, shall we say, other purposes :) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jelly_ace 2009-11-14 12:39 am UTC (link)
	That is one of the most awkward kissing scenes I've seen. Selina looks like she's being smothered by the guy's face. And I was hoping for some Bat/Cat love. :( (Reply to this) (Parent)

	lonewolf23k 2009-11-13 02:23 am UTC (link)
	Those are some costumes she's saving for Bruce. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	scottyquick 2009-11-13 02:31 am UTC (link)
	I approve. (Reply to this) (Parent)

rhythmbandit
2009-11-13 03:07 am UTC (link)

I'm pretty sure she hasn't, but who knows.

And I think they're using the costume montage joke to illustrate how when new writers take over characters, they change their costumes, cars, origin stories etc. I don't think the joke was addressing anyone's complaints over Catwoman's costume in particular. Then again, who knows. Keep in mind this is in Secret Files and Origins and Brubaker is just joking around.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	autolychus2 2009-11-13 10:46 pm UTC (link)
	Number Five is my favorite. :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

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