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Liberty Becket (libertybecket) wrote in compass_network,
@ 2022-03-15 20:53:00

Entry tags:

alexander hamilton, astrid, blank, brynhild, dan torrance, jack torrance, lisa cuddy, maryanne walker (oe), miguel o'hara (other), rawdon crawley, reeve adler, shepard, sunila montrose, ~arcturus black, ~katarin tal-kordala, ~liberty becket

If you have children, what are their names?

If you don't have children, what would you name them if you did?

You can say why if you want, but you don't have to. I'm curious what people do in other places.

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Liberty | Alexander

unimpeachable
2022-03-16 10:59 pm UTC (link)

I don't think it will be up to you, unfortunately. What's different about it in Rica?

I have no defense for them.

It is complicated. My mother had been forced into marriage at 16 to an awful older man, to resolve some dispute about land ownership between the families. I cannot begin to tell you how odious a person that man was, he had my mother imprisoned when she tried to get away from him. She left eventually, met my father, and when I was about eight we returned as an illegitimate family to her hometown. Her first husband went to the courts, and had a contract drawn up to say that he would grant her a divorce, but that she was not allowed to remarry, and that all of her belongings would go to him when she died. The courts agreed, although my mother was never present or aware of any of this until it was already done. She died, he came in waving his stupid contract, took it all.

If you were from the West Indies? You would be unlikely to have any land in the first place. A legitimate male relative, most likely. You'd hope and pray they'd be good enough men to hand it over, though not everyone is so honourable.

What do you mean by 'when the parents' contract ends'? If they get a divorce? Messy, see above.

Hey, I always wonder why my dad left. Some things are probably best left unknown, I don't think the answer is going to offer either of any comfort. It doesn't change anything to know the 'why'. And you've certainly excelled without him, so I don't think you're missing out too much.

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Liberty | Alexander

libertybecket
2022-03-16 11:44 pm UTC (link)

I hate that. I hate people telling me there's nothing I can do to change my own life. It makes me want to get in a spaceship and fly really far away.

On Rica having a child isn't painful. Medical advances mean that you can sleep right through it if you want to, and even if you don't, the surgery doesn't hurt. The stories I heard about what things used to be like are awful.

Your mother's situation sounds even worse than yours. ~~No wonder you don't really~~ None of those contracts are valid. A forced contract isn't valid. A contract someone made on your behalf without you being there isn't valid. It sounds like it was her first husband was the one who needed to be in the prison.

I keep forgetting. On Rica there's enough land for everyone. There are still property and boundary disputes, but there's enough, and a woman has the same land claim as a man, and just the same rights.

A divorce is when you prematurely end a contract, isn't it? I mean when the term just ends naturally. You're in contract now - how long until it ends?

Thank you, but I don't think I've accomplished much. Not when you consider I had so many people on Rica trying to teach me what they knew and how to be a good citizen. You've done a lot more with a lot less.

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Liberty | Alexander

unimpeachable
2022-03-16 11:59 pm UTC (link)

I'm sorry. ~~Please don't~~

Yeah, okay, that's very different, I can see why you're eager to return in that case.

Sure, but you don't appreciate these nuances when you're a child. Valid or not, it was upheld, and she wasn't there to argue for us anymore. I could've screamed that it was invalid until I ran out of breath, it wouldn't have changed anything. It would've been as effective as stamping my foot and saying it's not fair. But I'm not a child anymore, and I am in a position to make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else on my watch.

It's a different world, a different time. I forget, as well.

You're talking about the marriage contract? It ends when one of us dies.

Don't undersell yourself. And I had different opportunities.

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Liberty | Alexander

libertybecket
2022-03-17 12:21 am UTC (link)

Thanks. I know it's not anybody's fault, I'm just - scared, really. Of how it'll be here, and in case something goes wrong.

There's another difference, because Rican children get taught contract - in the general sense - from when they're really little. Charter and contract, the foundation of society really. But I understand. I mean that's why everyone wanted to leave Earth, I guess. I shouldn't be surprised by corruption or unfairness. If only more people had been like you and wanted to put it right.

Yes, on Rica if we just say 'contract' without specifying, it's that. Usually. When one of you dies? ~~But that's unfair, I thought that~~ Were you pressured into that? Most first contracts are two years, maybe five if there's a child planned.

I'm being realistic. I can do mechanical repairs and fly a shuttle, and talk philosophy all day like everyone else, but it was my mother's generation who did all the great things on Rica. I wouldn't have even been able to have a child if I didn't come here, and literally every other woman on Rica has at least one.

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Re: Liberty | Alexander

unimpeachable
2022-03-17 08:24 am UTC (link)

I understand that now, especially with your explanation about the difference in childbirth. You’ve got time, and you’re smart, you’ll figure something out.

Being taught it, and actually being listened to, are different things though. I knew it was wrong, and I understood why it was wrong, but I had no status, no voice. It is only one reason why I left. It’s not quite space exploration, but getting on the boat to NY felt just as monumental. I have a group of friends and colleagues who are just like me. Well, not just like me, but people who want to put things right and start a new nation based on those ideals.

I wasn’t pressured into it, I asked her and then I asked her father, and somehow managed to persuade him that I was suitable for a husband. A marriage contract is always for life, where I am from. What would be the point of tying yourself to a family for a couple of years? It sounds like it would be very messy and confusing when it came to an end. How do you divide up your property again?

Not being able to have a child on Rica was a lot more about there being no men around your age, and not a personal failing of some sort. Every other woman on Rica has had a lot more time to have a family than you. It’s not a fair comparison.

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Liberty | Alexander

libertybecket
2022-03-17 02:35 pm UTC (link)

I hope so. I'm sure going to try to.

It's the closest you had, and it's almost the same, going out into the unknown searching for something better. Our ship left early enough that Earth didn't care about us, but Cardea, our nearest neighbour, they had to fight a war to get away too. Earth wanted control over the technology that gave them faster ships than ours, and the man who invented it didn't want to give it up. He was an idealist too. And they killed him, and that started the war, at least how Cardea tells it

Always for life! But what someone wants at twenty isn't what they'll want at a hundred and twenty! When it comes to an end you can renew it if you want to, for as long as you both decide on, or you can part ways, friendly-fashion, and do something else. If you've got a short contract you wouldn't merge your properties. You'd have shared interests while you were in contract, and depending on the terms you might be liable - but I won't bore you with Rican contract terms! Nobody would really think about shared land use or anything like that unless their contract was at least a decade, and in that case you don't go into it without first thinking about how you might get out of it at the end.

I guess it's different. Where you're from you have divorce, right? So the contract can end at any time if someone isn't happy. That seems messier to me, and not really in the spirit of contract, but I know your homeland does things differently.

You're right. And I mean it's not that none of the older men liked me, just that my mother kept scaring them off. It was anti-charter but I was too embarrassed to get up in the meeting and say so, because everyone debating on whether or not I'm allowed to have a ~~sleepover~~ contract or children would just have been - I don't know if you'll understand. Like it's cute that I want a family, just how they thought it was cute I wanted a vote.

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Re: Liberty | Alexander

unimpeachable
2022-03-17 09:13 pm UTC (link)

Unfortunately, it seems like we just keep fighting the same wars with different people in every age.

A hundred and twenty? I'm not sure if you're just using hyperbole to make your point, but we don't live that long where I am from. I'll be blown away if I get past 40. Maybe spending part of it here will give me a better chance, I don't know.

But that aside, I equally don't see the point of involving legal contracts if you only plan to be with someone for a couple of years. Where I am from, the merging of family assets is kind of the point of marriage, and no one would ~~give their daughter~~ ~~let a man have~~ ~~take~~ willingly part with their daughter if the husband would just cast her aside when he was bored of her. It's unethical, it's immoral, it is for life because you agree to ~~look after~~ a life together, a family together, a future together. Two years, five years, it sounds very unstable to me. I wanted the stability of a family, I missed out on that, so it wasn't a question. Of course for life.

Divorce is your safeguard in case of adultery, desertion, bigamy, and sometimes impotence depending on the situation. It comes with it's own hardships and shame.

~~Of course they~~ The men there would've watched you grow up, it's hard to get past that I think. But, it seems a very personal thing to bring into a public forum. No one should reduce your right to love and a family to a community debate, it's demeaning.

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Liberty | Alexander

libertybecket
2022-03-17 09:37 pm UTC (link)

People can live until about a hundred and twenty if they're on telomerase, yeah. It's an anti-ageing drug. Don't tell me you're going to be an old man at forty! I didn't think it was that bad.

You have to remember that the contract is the fundamental social interaction on Rica. We have contracts for everything. People here deal in uncertainty a lot more. That seems unstable to me. Nobody on Rica would date someone for years before they took contract together. You'd have a short contract, and see if it worked out or not. And I really don't belong to my mother for her to part with me or not, that was half the trouble, her thinking she had rights over me and my choices. That's not how we do things on Rica but sometimes I think half the older generation still have Earther ideas they can't see past.

You must really love your wife. She's lucky, even if I still think contract for life is a bad idea.

Exactly! It's too personal and it shouldn't be a debate in the first place. I could have had contract when I was 15 if not for people interfering.

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Liberty | Alexander

unimpeachable
2022-03-17 10:10 pm UTC (link)

Wow. That seems excessive. I don't think we age any quicker, no. We just don't have the medical innovation of even somewhere like here, so we die of things you have probably eradicated on Rica.

Even as a lawyer, that level of red tape sounds exhausting. It's what you're used to, I suppose. In my time, we wouldn't date for years either. I knew Eliza about two weeks before I approached her father. She didn't belong to her father, in the sense of being in bondage to him, but as I said a woman cannot inherit land, there are very few occupations open to women, it's not easy for a woman to provide for herself independently. Her father was her guardian, her protector, her provider. That responsibility is passed onto her husband, so it's important that it is a good match.

God, I don't mean that this decision was all made behind her back, we decided together that I should try to speak with her father and see if he'd allow it. In private, not in a public meeting. I'm not saying that any of this is good and correct and the way things should be, it is just the world we lived in.

Yes, I do. Very much.

I understand more now about why you really wanted your child.

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Liberty | Alexander

libertybecket
2022-03-17 10:42 pm UTC (link)

I've never seen anybody as ill as you were before. If I do get back to Rica like I'm planning, I'll see if they have anything that will help keep you healthier.

It must be even more difficult not having your father around if you're a woman, then. I guess it wouldn't be a good idea for me to visit the place even if I could.

I know. You can't change the kind of society you've got, not easily. Did you ask her outright if she wanted contract, before you spoke to her father?

Thanks. For understanding. I know it's not what a woman from New York would have done, but I just had to.

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Liberty | Alexander

unimpeachable
2022-03-17 11:26 pm UTC (link)

Really? It's very common. I don't know how I survived past 20. I'm sure this was the same illness my mother and I had when I was 10. I got better, but it took her quickly. ~~She was holding me and she~~

Yes, certainly. You would hopefully be protected by a brother, an uncle, a cousin, but nothing is guaranteed. You'd be perfectly fine to visit, no one need know the exact background details of a visitor. As long as you don't plan on buying up a lot of land while you're there, you'll get by fine.

We don't really phrase it that way, but yes of course. I'm not masochistic enough to endure a dinner long interrogation by Mr Schuyler in vain hope, and risk that she might say nah, let's be friends.

Well, you are not a woman from New York, so it would be idiotic of me to try to put you in that box. But you're welcome.

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Liberty | Alexander

libertybecket
2022-03-17 11:49 pm UTC (link)

The same? Alexander, I didn't realise! You must have been so worried. What an awful thing to happen.

When the colonists left for Rica there were all kinds of checks no make sure no diseases got brought with them. I know because my mother told me she had to bribe the doctors not to tell anyone she was pregnant, or she'd lose her spot. It's so good you survived. I hope you can live a proper long life now. I know I said the healthcare here is bad compared to Rica, but it did help you.

As much as I'd love making a tidy profit on land, I think that would be easy enough to avoid. Don't women get talked to differently there though? I mean if they can't inherit or really work wouldn't it be like the problems I have on Rica, just worse? Not being taken seriously? Or am I missing something?

That's good. I'm trying to figure out how it works, that's all. Dinner's not so bad. There was a man once that my mother threatened to pull a gun on if he kept seeing me.

You'd be surprised. Most people judge others by the standards of their homeworld. I probably do it too sometimes, it's really difficult not to.

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Liberty | Alexander

unimpeachable
2022-03-18 12:06 am UTC (link)

Yes, I'm almost certain of it. There was only so much treatment we could afford, and now I think about it, that is probably why I survived when she didn't. She would have treated me over herself. I was ~~terrified~~ very worried. ~~I really did think that I would die~~ It's over now, the worst of it at least.

So, I skipped right over what you said. In this ideal situation, you would go home to have your baby, and then still want to come back with medication for me? I assumed you wanted to just go home and forget about us all.

Yeah, if you wanted to live there full time, but I'm not sure how in depth you're expecting your conversations to be as a tourist. I'll tell you some advice a well-meaning friend of mine gave me when I was just new to the city. "Talk less, smile more". And yes, I took that about as well as you can imagine. But there are a lot of good things about New York. I'd like to show you, the good parts.

What the hell was his fault that she felt the need to go that far? If Mr Schuyler had said no, I... damn, I was going to say I would just back off, but let's be honest, I'd probably keep secretly writing if she wanted and hope it didn't end in a gun fight. I know myself.

I think perhaps I have the benefit of being an immigrant to my now hometown. My standards are often in flux anyway.

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Liberty | Alexander

libertybecket
2022-03-18 07:33 am UTC (link)

I'm so sorry. Someone should have lent her the money. I don't care if they disapproved of her, life's a higher value than that.

Yes, that's what I'd do, if I could. I know that's not how things work, but if I could do whatever I wanted, that's how I'd do it. And regardless, I'm never going to forget about you, not as long as I live. Who could forget a place like this?

I don't know, I've never been a tourist before, unless you count being here, and my conversations here are as in-depth as anyone could hope for. I don't think I'd be very good at taking your friend's advice! But I'd like to see New York. You could help make sure I didn't accidentally upset people.

Jacob? She said I was too young and he was too old - like everybody else. He just liked me enough that he was more persistent. He gave up eventually though. Not worth the trouble. You're right, I bet you wouldn't have given up if Philip Schuyler had said no.

For me everyone here has weird standards, but they're not even the same weird standards, so it's not like I can just get used to them.

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Liberty | Alexander

unimpeachable
2022-03-20 11:26 pm UTC (link)

Yeah.

Wow, that's really something. I feel strangely honoured, even though I know this is an entirely theoretical scenario at this point. I'll never forget you either, but let's not get too sombre about it just yet. We hopefully have a while to be work together yet.

I don't know if I count this as tourism. I'd consider myself more a temporary resident, but then I suppose you get into where the distinction could possibly be drawn. I'd like that, I'd really like to show you.

I mean, yeah, but you can't really help the fact that everyone eligible was older than you. I don't think age difference alone is a good enough reason to object to a match. Thinking about it, I would've kept writing, and worked doubly hard to make something of myself so that I could go back and try again with better recommendations and prospects for myself. Never accept the first answer, after all.

Need to learn to a bit more flexible there, Liberty.

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Liberty | Alexander

libertybecket
2022-03-21 02:11 pm UTC (link)

Yes, the baby is due in September, but I can't count on him not arriving early, so I need to be gone well before then. We still have some time.

I try not to think about the semantics of it, because I know the proper word for someone taken from their homeworld and kept somewhere they don't really want to be isn't tourist. I used to like the idea of tourism, that's all. Rica's got one landing site and one town and a bunch of homesteads, and then the rest is out beyond the zone. I thought it'd be nice to see something new. Maybe New York, maybe someday.

I don't think it's a good reason either! People are just illogical sometimes. Maybe I should have fought harder for him, back home. Maybe I should have questioned why when you have a man and a woman it always has to be the man who asks for contract.

I'm flexible where it's okay to be, but on Charter and contract? Those things matter. It's good to know if you have shared values with someone.

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