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Caspar Leyton ([info]brannenford) wrote in [info]compass_network,
@ 2022-03-11 07:41:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:richie tozier, ~caspar leyton

Whichever magical person has done this to me, you have had your laugh at my expense, now please undo it.


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[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 08:05 am UTC (link)
So far I have learnt that petticoats are much heavier than they need to be. It isn't much of an opportunity.

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[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 08:18 am UTC (link)
Maybe you've learned that the expectation for women to wear so many of them is kind of absurd.

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[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 08:22 am UTC (link)
That fashionable women take things to excess is hardly new information.

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[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 08:28 am UTC (link)
Nevermind. You don't have to wear them. There are shops with things all over. Or if they'll fit you can just wear your guy clothes anyway.

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[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 08:34 am UTC (link)
You're right. I am not actually a woman, so I suppose it isn't necessary for me to pretend to be one.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 08:36 am UTC (link)
Also women wear pants now. It's a thing.

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[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 08:40 am UTC (link)
Perhaps you think I am a blind man? I've seen what they wear here.

If I were pretending to be a woman, I'd have to stay in skirts.

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[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 08:40 am UTC (link)
Why?

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[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 08:44 am UTC (link)
I do not think it is right for a woman to dress like a man. And before you leap on me for that, let me add that I have no intention of trying to tell the station women what to wear. I haven't any authority over them and it is not my business how they dress. I am, however, allowed to hold an opinion.

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[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 08:46 am UTC (link)
But why? What difference does it make?

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[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 08:57 am UTC (link)
It goes against the order of things. It's in the Bible, I think. If I were a better scholar I would be able to tell you. Regardless, it just isn't right or proper. Don't you think it is at all strange, seeing women dressed like men all the time?

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[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 09:09 am UTC (link)
The bible also says you shouldn't braid your hair or wear jewelry. And men didn't wear trousers in biblical times either.

I don't think the women here are dressed like men.

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[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 09:20 am UTC (link)
Are you a Biblical scholar, then? In all the years I've been attending church I have never heard mention of any of that.

How are they not dressed like men? Most of them are in trousers.

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[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 09:25 am UTC (link)
No, I studied some religious texts for a while when I was a teenager. Was Peter I think? And Timothy. Something about your adornments being internal. That beauty should be good heart and spirit, not expensive and flashy attire.

I don't think clothing has an inherent gender. If a woman wears trousers then they're women's trousers. If I put on a skirt then it's a men's skirt. The person wearing them assigns the gender of the clothes, not the other way around.

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[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 09:32 am UTC (link)
Ah, yes, there was a lot of that. Be humble and modest and sober in your dress and that sort of thing. It's a fine sentiment, don't you think? That a good heart should mean more than a pretty face.

That doesn't make a lick of sense to me. Men wear trousers and women wear skirts, and if they do otherwise then it is for some sort of disguise or amusement or there is some other reason for it. If a man puts on a skirt, he is dressing as a woman for some purpose. You can say that you agree with that purpose, or not, but you cannot deny that he knows what he is doing by it.

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[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 09:39 am UTC (link)
Nothing wrong with that, no. I just wonder why we've decided that following one verse about men not dressing as women and women not dressing as men is worth bringing up and following so strictly when we don't do the same for other verses that are just as clear in their rules.

Except that isn't a rule anymore. Especially here. People wear clothes, whatever clothes they want. Maybe he just wants to wear a skirt. Finds it comfortable or fashionable.

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[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 09:52 am UTC (link)
Now for that answer you would have to ask a minister - but it doesn't look as if you have decided to follow any of it, really.

And you think that your rules are better than my rules and I should adopt them? There are some ladies here in skirts. As far as I can tell, most people dress in a way that would have been comfortable for them in their homeland, whatever that might be.

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[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 09:58 am UTC (link)
I haven't, no. Most wouldn't have me anyway.

More just be open to them. I'm also just...trying to understand. When I grew up it was already common for women to wear whatever they want. And then I spent 30 years here where things are even more relaxed. The idea of clothing being assigned by gender so restrictively is something I can't wrap my head around.

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[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 10:13 am UTC (link)
I found a church here, but apparently there is nobody to hold services, so I shan't criticise you for that.

The idea that men and women are different isn't one you seem to like at all. That is where the difficulty lies, I think. If you deny the differences, of course you'll reject any outward markers of them.

Do you wear skirts? I'm not asking to mock. I want to see how far apart our thoughts are.

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[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 10:16 am UTC (link)
I wouldn't even if there were.

I don't think they're not different. They are different. I just don't think any of those differences warrants being treated differently.

Not really, I have, mostly when I was younger and still figuring things out. But not my thing.

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[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 10:24 am UTC (link)
Do you believe in God?

While I think the opposite. Recognising the differences but then saying that they count for nothing seems strange to me. I am not a soldier - very far from it - but were there some danger here and a woman were with me, I would still do my very best to protect her, as she is smaller and weaker than I am. Wouldn't you do the same?

If things were are as you say, and clothing was just fabric with no further meaning, wouldn't you wear skirts as often as trousers, without thinking it significant and in need of figuring out?

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[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 10:30 am UTC (link)
My grandfather is considered a god by many. I don't dismiss the idea that there could be a Christian God. But I don't believe in following a religion that would rather I be dead than happy.

I would. If she were smaller and weaker than me. Not all women are. Especially not here.

Because they weren't comfortable for me. I only liked the way they looked when they were tighter but didn't like that I couldn't move as much.

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[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 10:38 am UTC (link)
I hope I don't come across as a pious irritation trying to convert you, but I think I should say that God loves you and doesn't wish for your death.

I see. Now I think it would be very cruel to tell a woman I didn't intend to try to shield her from harm because I thought she was tall and unfeminine enough to fend for herself.

Would you wear one for a special occasion, where looks matter more than practicality?

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[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 10:43 am UTC (link)
God might, his followers though have been quite vocal about wanting people like me not to exist.

It has nothing to do with being unfeminine. I can fight, I have some magic, but there are women here much, much more powerful and skilled than I am. I would try to protect them if we were in danger but I'm not dumb enough to think I'd be better at it than they would be on their own too. And I would do the same if it were a man standing next to me.

Maybe, would depend on the occasion and the skirt.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 10:51 am UTC (link)
God made you, so if they say that, they are claiming to know better than He does.

I don't deny that there are some very skilled women here, but they shouldn't be put in the position where they would have to fight, not while there are able-bodied men around. You would want to protect your mother or your sister, say, even if she were as capable as you?

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[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 10:58 am UTC (link)
They do. Often. Maybe they're better where you're from but where I came from, I would be called an abomination and either cast out or forced to live a life without love. Those are not people I would choose to support.

My mother fights alongside those men all the time. Of course, I'd protect her if it comes to it, but she's more than capable too.

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Private
[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 11:04 am UTC (link)
They aren't much better. If everyone knew the whole truth about me I'd be practically unmarriageable and if my father had any other sons he'd be under pressure to disinherit me. I don't know why God created telekinetics, but He did.

That, I cannot understand, because I cannot imagine letting my own mother fight when she has a son to support and look after her. Our ways of doing things are very different.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Private
[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 11:16 am UTC (link)
I...wasn't talking about telekinetics. But, same thing I guess. I understand that in your time choosing not to follow your religion would be just as bad but here, where it's not something I need to do, I would never choose to associate myself with people so cruel.

We both fight. What I'm trying to say is like...if I was standing next to my mother and a man who is able-bodied but didn't know how to fight, didn't have the skills or weapons she has access to at any moment and something was coming at us, and I could only protect one of them, I would protect him. I would choose based on need and skill not gender.

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Private
[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 11:22 am UTC (link)
What were you talking about? I'm not a very good Christian, if I'm honest. My sister would have had chapter and verse for you earlier. I try, though, and I think that the cruel people don't see their own sin.

I would protect my mother over a stranger, every time, and a woman I didn't know over a man I didn't know. It's a matter of differing priorities, I think.

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Re: Private
[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 11:26 am UTC (link)
I'm gay. I don't think being a good Christian should be about knowing a chapter or verse. It should be about being a good person. And you can't be a good person if you don't accept people for who they are.

Possibly. I'd just hate to see a man harmed for his perceived superiority just as much as I'd hate to see a woman belittled for the idea she is less.

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Private
[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 11:36 am UTC (link)
That? There are people who would want you dead for that? It's a sin, but who hasn't sinned? If you lived in some little village in Pretannica you might have difficulty if you couldn't be discreet, but in the cities nobody cares about those things. I have a natural daughter at home, that's just as much a sin. Let he who is without them throw the first stone. I do know that much of my Bible.

That you see a duty of protection as somehow belittling illustrates why we cannot agree, I think. If there were trouble now and some man tried to protect me, thinking me to be the woman I currently appear to be, I wouldn't be offended by it.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Private
[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 11:44 am UTC (link)
Things must change along the line somewhere. When I'm from it's treated much more harshly than simple sin. And either way, I still wouldn't want to be a part of something that saw a part of myself that I have no choice over as being so wrong.

I don't mean just in the instance of protection. In anything. Women being told they can't hold certain jobs, men being told that certain hobbies are too feminine for them to enjoy. Men being taught not to show emotion and chastised for crying when they're hurt because it's womanly. Women being told that being strong is manly and no one will love them for it. Men and women both are hurt by the ideas that men are strong and women are weak.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Private
[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 11:56 am UTC (link)
Yes, or the place you are from may be different from my homeland in ways we aren't perceiving. I don't like to think that Pretannica will become that way someday, either a harsh place to live or a very hypocritical one.

I know a few men who take the view that shedding tears over art or poetry is a sign of exquisite refinement and taste, but in general it isn't right for a man to cry. It's childish. I don't think it is true that nobody will love a masculine woman, but it may make her life more difficult, just as life is kinder to a beautiful woman than to a plain one. It is not fair, but pretending it isn't true won't help her.

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Re: Private
[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-11 12:00 pm UTC (link)
I'd hope that too, nowhere should be that way. And I'd hope they get better about telekinetics as well, there's no reason people should be cast out because of something they can't control.

But if we don't look at things like crying being feminine or strength being masculine then maybe life wouldn't be so hard. Men should be allowed to have emotion, women should be allowed to show strength. We shouldn't be so restricted by, again, something we never chose to be.

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Private
[info]brannenford
2022-03-11 12:08 pm UTC (link)
I hope for that, but in the case of telekinetics much of it is down to fear of us, and that is not easily set aside.

You are a dreamer! I like that in you. Here, I think there is something we can test. Women are more naturally emotional than men, it is said, and they have less control over their emotions, and that is why it is not wrong for a woman to cry, as it is for a man. The last time I cried, I was twelve years old. If I now find myself weeping over things, it will be proof of some physiological difference in women, wouldn't you say? As I am the same person, but in a different body.

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Re: Private
[info]trash_mouth
2022-03-12 08:53 am UTC (link)
It's harder to be afraid of something when you know it. Maybe eventually they'll figure that out.

As long as it's actually because of a difference and not just because you have permission now.

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Private
[info]brannenford
2022-03-12 10:31 am UTC (link)
It complicates matters that a telekinetic is actually capable of doing them harm. I wouldn't, obviously, and if I wanted to attack someone I could just as easily shoot at them as use my talent, but some don't see it that way.

What? Of course it would mean there was a difference. I don't want to cry.

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