InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "SPOOOOOOONNNNN!!!!"

wanda maximoff (fears) wrote in valarnet,
@ 2019-06-26 21:24:00

Entry tags:

haruhi fujioka, isabelle lightwood, marcus keane, reid garwin, wanda maximoff (scarlet witch)

I have seen this a few times now, and I am somewhat confused.

I wish to preface this with saying that I am not attempting to lessen anyone's courage. However, I feel like this may be a part of American culture that I am somehow not understanding.

Are there cultural reasons behind the announcements of sexual preference? I understand that in this country this month is used to champion the sexual spectrum and those across it who have faced prejudice, I took a gender studies course last year and we discussed Stonewall, I am aware of the ramifications there.

What I am struggling with is the reasons behind these things. Can anyone explain them? Is there such a way to do that?

(Post a new comment)

	ashadowhunter 2019-06-26 08:48 pm UTC (link)
	I believe it's in a sense of one owning who they are. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-26 08:54 pm UTC (link)
	And to do that they are encouraged to prostrate themselves in public? So that everyone can know? This is why people 'come out' as they say? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashadowhunter 2019-06-26 08:58 pm UTC (link)
	For some, yes. People do it for many different reasons and some don't even do it. I view it like they have had this massive secret and finally are comfortable to shout it out to the world. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-26 09:07 pm UTC (link)
	But for those who don't see it as a secret, they choose not to shout it, say. This is also culturally accepted for them? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashadowhunter 2019-06-26 09:08 pm UTC (link)
	It really depends on the person. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-26 09:10 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, so this is more about a person's personal preferences outside just the sexuality spectrum? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashadowhunter 2019-06-26 11:05 pm UTC (link)
	I think so, yes. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	onlygoodvibes 2019-06-26 09:05 pm UTC (link)
	For me it's a way of facing fear I suppose. Been living in it for a while and don't want to anymore. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-26 09:07 pm UTC (link)
	In fear? Is it a fear of ...who you are, or what people would think? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	onlygoodvibes 2019-06-26 09:09 pm UTC (link)
	Both. Accepting it and myself, putting voice to it is important I think. Words are meaningful an I've had so much negative in the past I want to give it positive association. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-26 09:11 pm UTC (link)
	So do you see it as taking it back as a power for yourself, instead of people using it as a weapon against you? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	onlygoodvibes 2019-06-26 09:13 pm UTC (link)
	That's a good way of looking at it, yeah. Exactly. I never understood it either until I felt it. It's a bit hard to understand otherwise. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-26 09:15 pm UTC (link)
	Until you felt what? If you don't mind me asking of course. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	onlygoodvibes 2019-06-26 09:18 pm UTC (link)
	I guess it's just a feeling of completeness? Not feeling like something's missing anymore and it's a positive thing worth sharing. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-26 09:21 pm UTC (link)
	Hmm. You are right, you may need to feel that to understand it, as I do not understand it. I suppose the common thread is that it differs from person to person. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	onlygoodvibes 2019-06-26 09:23 pm UTC (link)
	It's a more complicated thing than even I expected. Sorry if that didn't help. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-26 09:26 pm UTC (link)
	Where I am from, perhaps it is just because our culture is different, but there is less focus on this as a public event. Perhaps it is just because I was raised different. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	rubeofgod 2019-06-26 10:10 pm UTC (link)
	It's a declaration, if not a demand, to be treated with respect and to help weed out those who find it morally corrupt or even disgusting to live a life that is openly gay, bi, or anything other than heterosexual and/or the binary. In a world where people are killed on a daily basis for their sexuality, it's an act of radical bravery. (Replies frozen) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-27 10:33 am UTC (link)
	So it is to encourage openness? As a form of protest, I suppose, against prejudice, in place of silent acceptance? I suppose the complexities between social structures in differing countries and their culture is how it doesn't translate clearly. (Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

	rubeofgod 2019-06-27 10:51 am UTC (link)
	It appears to me you understand. (Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-27 11:02 am UTC (link)
	The person before you helped. I simply am unused to the announcements. While things aren't completely equal or accepted in my home country, there is less of a vocal coming out I suppose. (Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

	rubeofgod 2019-06-27 12:20 pm UTC (link)
	There are a lot who would prefer we keep silent and invisible. Mind if I ask where you're from? (Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

fears
2019-06-27 01:47 pm UTC (link)

But I suppose aside that there are also a lot of people who choose to be silent also. I understand that your military only recently removed restrictions of homosexuals serving. Those who wish to do that would have had to hide who they were.

I am from Romania. There are still advancements to be made, and we have our share of problems, but our events never felt as broad as they seem here. Larger population, different country I suppose.

(Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

	rubeofgod 2019-06-27 02:04 pm UTC (link)
	Are you sure it's really that much of a difference? I saw plenty of rather vocal declarations of sexuality when I was in Romania. Are you just noticing it more now since it's Pride month? (Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-27 02:21 pm UTC (link)
	I am very sure. It is not perfect, as all people will still have their prejudices. However we do not seem to find empowerment in the voicing of our orientation like those here in the States. In Romania, they have different prejudices to impose upon us than simply who we love. (Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

rubeofgod
2019-06-27 02:26 pm UTC (link)

You say we. Are you speaking for the whole of Romania's LGBT community?

I lived there for quite some time. I'm gay. I'm not very vocal about it, but I experienced Gay Month there, I experienced parades that Romania attempted to stop, I experienced public openness in sexuality, I saw a lot of people declaring to be "out and proud" and I'm wondering why it is you've not seen it and it's only here that you do.

(Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

fears
2019-06-27 03:29 pm UTC (link)

No, I am not speaking for any of them. I am sorry if I substitute 'Romania' for 'we' in search of ease.

There is a pride parade in Romania, yes. They have it every year, similar to most countries, it is a time for those who want to celebrate to celebrate. And yes, certain areas are not as embracing of it. However, in the seventeen years in which I lived there, grew up there and was part of the Romanian community, I did not experience the same social media use of 'coming out', as it were.

I knew of gay people within my village, and those in the larger cities who had their own little areas specialising in gay culture. I am aware of those being 'out and proud' within my country. But in my personal experience, Romania is mostly conservative, a silent and invisible sort of thing you could say.

That is why I'm trying to understand this, the American way, where people are vocally open about things, and why they choose this.

(Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

rubeofgod
2019-06-27 03:38 pm UTC (link)

It sounds as if you already understand it so I'm struggling to see where the confusion is coming in for you.

Women didn't always have even the right to express themselves the way you are right now. They couldn't hold jobs or wear swimsuits or anything other than long dresses. They weren't allowed education. But because they were vocal and refused to sit down and shut up, they paved the way for rights here. Other countries where these rights don't exist probably wonder the same thing you do about LGBT people.

Does that help?

(Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-27 03:59 pm UTC (link)
	Does your ‘mansplaining’ of civil rights and the battle for equality help to understand the personal and cultural reasons behind a public ‘outing’ of sexual preference? No. I do not feel you are understanding what it is I am searching for and further discussion would likely devolve, so I believe I will choose to disengage. (Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

rubeofgod
2019-06-27 04:02 pm UTC (link)

You ask me to try to explain in ways that you might understand. I try to state facts and you call it 'mansplaining', then you want to run away.

It sounds to me like you yourself are the one who doesn't want to understand. People have explained it to you, yet you still claim not to. You don't want to.

Disengage and continue to 'not understand'. That's your choice. Cheers.

(Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

fears
2019-06-27 08:32 pm UTC (link)

Explaining to me what my country is like, discussing civil rights and then going into religious and cultural aspects of certain countries is not explaining anything close to what I was asking about.

People explain their points of view, this is what I am looking for, their reasoning, I wish to understand what it is about this aspect of American culture that empowers them.

Which is why I prefaced my questions so that people understood I was not questioning their choices or preferences. You have been aggressive in your communications and due to my need to maintain low stress levels I would like to leave the discussion as it is.

(Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

rubeofgod
2019-06-27 08:42 pm UTC (link)

I never explained to you what your country is like. I talked about my experiences, as a gay man, in your country and asked you to consider that these things are not new and that maybe you're just seeing it more because it's Pride. Civil rights include LGBT rights, so yes, it's a civil rights discussion.

You don't want to understand. You want to write a thinly veiled homophobic post, saying you want to understand when you really don't. You've already been explained it by several people and it still isn't good enough for you. If you don't want to understand, it isn't the responsibility of any of us to answer for ourselves when all they ever did was declare their sexuality after what's probably years of self torment. If someone isn't queer in the way you want them to be or in a way you'd 'understand', that's your own problem.

I have not sworn at you. I have not done anything but what you posted asking for and you don't want to seem to discuss it. Rather, you want to say that our reasoning isn't good enough for you.

You said you want to disengage so disengage. You're much more transparent than you think you are.

(Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

fears
2019-06-27 08:49 pm UTC (link)

Wishing to understand the process of 'coming out' and being homophobic are so far separated it's daunting.

I do what I can to judge no one, as I understand being stigmatised by things outwith your control. I don't care a single bit about who anyone loves, least of all if it hurts no one. However since this isn't my culture, and it seems an important part of this culture, I was asking after the process behind the act of coming out itself, I did not and do not express in any way homophobia and I thank you kindly to not attempt to imply that I am homophobic purely because you do not understand someone seeking to educate themselves in a different culture.

(Replies frozen) (Parent)

damnrichpeople
2019-06-27 04:19 am UTC (link)

It's because the first Pride was a literal riot.

Are we as bad off as we were back in the day? No. But we still have a lot to work towards for equality. Especially under the current administration, and then there are the members of our community in countries that have a longer road ahead of them.

Announcing who we are helps normalize it, so people think of us as friends and loved ones. Not weirdos or caricatures. Also strength in numbers. Those who are struggling because of their home life or location know they aren't alone, that there are many more of us facing the same struggles they do.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

fears
2019-06-27 10:44 am UTC (link)

Yes, I know about Stonewall and the movement that followed the end of the 60's during the civil rights movements and the anti-war sentiment that spread. We learned about the transgender community and their important contribution to the revolution in same sex equality.

I'm just trying to understand the difference in culture expectations, given that our sexuality was rarely a source of public prejudice at home.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

damnrichpeople
2019-06-28 08:57 am UTC (link)

My grandparents immigrated here from Japan. From what I've heard from Dad, they weren't always so open. But having grown up in a fairly conservative country, his parents didn't accept his sexuality straight away or the fact he does drag. Mom's parents were less so. I'm lucky by the time I came out, both times, it was to a very accepting family. I think a lot of that was my dad paving the way for me. I don't know where you're from or your own sexuality, but I get cultural differences.

I know that if you're not part of the community, the prejudice might not be as visible to you. Because it exists everywhere. Can people marry someone of the same sex where you're from? Because it's only legal in a few dozen countries. And that's a form of prejudice, keeping people from getting married because of their gender. Or I've only been able to very recently change my ID to reflect my gender. And only a couple of states, let alone the whole country, recognize my gender. Many people don't think anyone outside of the binary even exist. So, that's also a form of prejudice. How easy would it be for someone that's nonbinary be able to get their official documents changed there to reflect that?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

fears
2019-06-28 10:09 am UTC (link)

My parents were very accepting, we lived a different lifestyle from the majority, and within our small unit, things were largely accepted as standard and normal. It was after we moved from that where I noticed that some things are not the same. I'm Romani, and I grew up in Romania for the most part, aside from when we were passing through border countries. I know that it's largely conservative.

Bucharest had their first pride when I was 6, so I think I had an awareness of things but never saw them? Marriage is not legal for same sex couples in Romania, I believe it has been under review for a while but public support isn't exactly behind it. I understand it's not impossible to change your gender identity but I'm not sure how complete and full the laws are surrounding those rights either.

It's possibly why I've never really experienced people having to come out, because those at home, where I grew up opted to do it in a more personal or private manner to avoid too much scrutiny from conservative communities. I'm not sure I know what my identity is myself, having never really thought about it.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

damnrichpeople
2019-06-29 03:44 am UTC (link)

Growing up in a separate culture within your culture also probably makes a difference, too.

But yeah, that's why we make a big deal about announcing who we are. Because the more of us there are, the more power we have to fight for the rights we still don't have. It's less about everyone having to announce it than it is just... wanting to add our own voices to the ongoing fight for equality.

Maybe in your home country, people are still scared to. Which is understandable. No one should do anything that makes them feel unsafe, and there are so many people that have lost friends, family, and jobs over just being who they are. That fear is completely understandable. Hell, my boyfriend has one parent who is accepting of his sexuality and one who isn't. You just. You never know.

Hey, whatever and whoever you are, you've got a lifetime of figuring that out. Just be true to yourself and everything else falls into place eventually.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	literalworst 2019-06-27 03:35 pm UTC (link)
	I think it’s bullshit that anybody need to come out. It isn’t like people come out as “straight” (Reply to this) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-27 04:00 pm UTC (link)
	This is partially why I am confused. Do those who do not fall on the LGBTQA+ spectrum not need to declare where they fall? Do people just assume if they haven’t said anything they are straight? What about people who are simply more private? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	literalworst 2019-06-28 08:15 pm UTC (link)
	I think it's a societal expectation that your default sexuality is straight so the moment something steps out of that neat little box it becomes a matter of either hiding it or actually "coming out" because if you're not out you're living in the closet. Weirdest fucking thing ever. I don't tend to assume shit, seems to work out well. (Reply to this) (Parent)

thelasttoascend
2019-06-27 04:05 pm UTC (link)

I guess some people like to share who they are with the world. Depends on the person, but sometimes it's because they've faced adversity and are proud of it, sometimes it's for attention, sometimes it's to avoid that awkward conversation when you want to bring home your same-sex partner to Thanksgiving and you don't want your grandma to have a stroke at the table.

It's a matter of personal choice; you don't have to come out if you don't want to. With the increase in visible prejudice and unrest within the community, a lot of people are 'coming out' to make a stand.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	fears 2019-06-27 08:36 pm UTC (link)
	It is rare that I have seen people use confirmation of the thing they are discriminated for as a tool for empowerment. I do not think I understood the lesson of owning your difference until it came up. Before, I was taught to make things easier, if it meant hiding something natural but with a stigma, then we hid it. It is new to see first hand people doing the opposite. (Reply to this) (Parent)