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Tweak says, "Tell me it was great."

starwolf_oakley (starwolf_oakley) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-09-01 01:30:00

Entry tags:

char: mary jane watson, creator: ross andru, title: amazing spider-man

Political cartoon regarding the Big Buyout
After the cut, a political cartoon regarding the big "Disney buys Marvel" story.

For legality.

This panel is from AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #153. Mary Jane is angry over Peter ditching her at a party (hosted by J. Jonah Jameson) two issues back. With the whole "Mary Jane knew Peter's secret all along" reveal, this anger is really concern and worry over Peter constantly risking his life as Spider-Man. Does this make Mary Jane more complex?

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	ashtoreth 2009-09-01 06:52 am UTC (link)
	Realism does not necessarily mean more interesting. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	galateus 2009-09-01 12:37 pm UTC (link)
	...I'm confused. Was there a reference to realism in the OP? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

ashtoreth
2009-09-01 01:38 pm UTC (link)

Did I post to the wrong thing again? darnit...wait...ah. I was referring to this: With the whole "Mary Jane knew Peter's secret all along" reveal, this anger is really concern and worry over Peter constantly risking his life as Spider-Man. Does this make Mary Jane more complex?

I feel that it is an added complexity to her character if we take into account all the retcons, but I do not feel it is now nor ever was a particularly interesting characterization. I would be much happier with Mary Jane a simpler character who neverneverneverneverneverEVER wailed about the danger of Peter's secret life again.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	jlroberson 2009-09-01 07:02 am UTC (link)
	I've always found the symbolism of the mouse, a pernicious, easily-reproducing form of vermin that gets into everything and lives off garbage, peculiarly apt for Disney. (Reply to this) (Thread)

ex_stig213
2009-09-01 08:28 am UTC (link)

Ever read Spiegelman's "Maus"? There's a pretty good quote at the beginning from a WWII edition of Der Sturmer which says the same thing. While it was basically just am attack on the Jews, there is a point to be made in the argument; Disney is the ultimate example of the American Dream: taking something that belongs in the garbage and shoving into people's faces for money until you're a millionaire.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ladymirth 2009-09-01 08:58 am UTC (link)
	Disney is the ultimate example of the American Dream: taking something that belongs in the garbage and shoving into people's faces for money until you're a millionaire. So you're saying Disney is Ankh-Morpork? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	foxhack 2009-09-01 02:37 pm UTC (link)
	More appropriately, McDonald's? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jlroberson 2009-09-01 09:22 am UTC (link)
	Actually, the quote Spiegelman uses is "The Jews are undoubtedly a race, but they are not human."(sorry, not my thought or anything I believe, just quoting) I have a hard time seeing the connection with what I said. Your last sentence, that I see. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ex_stig213 2009-09-01 09:30 am UTC (link)
	Really? The edition I had started the quote with "Mickey Mouse is the most idiotic idea ever invented" and ended it with "Death to Mickey Mouse! Wear the Swastika Cross!". Do you have volumes 1 and 2 separate? I have the Complete edition with both of them in one. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-09-01 09:43 am UTC (link)
	I have the first edition vol. 1. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

ex_stig213
2009-09-01 10:13 am UTC (link)

Looked it up, it's at the beginning of Maus II: And Here My Troubles Began, and goes like this:

"Mickey Mouse is the most miserable ideal ever revealed...Healthy emotions tell every independent young man and every honorable youth that the dirty and filth-covered vermin, the greatest bacteria carrier in the animal kingdom, cannot be the ideal type of animal...Away with Jewish brutalization of the people! Down with Mickey Mouse! Wear the Swastika Cross!
--newspaper article, pomerania, Germany, mid-1930s"

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

jlroberson
2009-09-01 10:35 am UTC (link)

Got that one. You're right. Thanks. I was more than a bit confused.

Wait, does that mean this discussion is now invalid? It's the internet and Hitler was mentioned. ;)

Funny thing about that--I saw Syberberg's Our Hitler(yes, all of it, good lord), and there's a scene with a Goebbels puppet which I believe is quoting from a speech of his--the one about how someday there would be a color motion picture celebrating them--and he says something to the effect that he too was a human, like you, that loved Mickey Mouse.

But no one ever accused Nazis of coherence or consistency...

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

ex_stig213
2009-09-01 10:50 am UTC (link)

Additionally, while I wouldn't want to necessarily equate the two, the Nazi movement would certainly draw some satisfaction from the shuffling of ethnic groups in Disney's award-winning motion pictures- it's taken them, what, decades to make a film with a black main protagonist?

I mean, I'm sure they don't intend to be racist, but it is incredibly easy to pick out stereotypes from their films, good and bad - notice how, for instance, British accents are confined to the villains and comic relief in Pocahontas, or how all the good guys in Hercules - set in the heat of Ancient Greece - are White Caucasians, or how quite a lot of the unnamed characters in Mulan look very similar to one another, or how the peaceful Atlanteans of Atlantis are unable to solve their own problems without the interference of white Americand...etc., etc.

No malice intended - I enjoy Disney's better productions as much as anyone - but, like I say, it is incredibly easy to pick stuff out.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

jlroberson
2009-09-01 10:53 am UTC (link)

I seem to recall an article in the Comics Journal years and years ago that talked about Walt Disney's continued commerce with Germany, and the Nazi government, for years after Hitler's rise, and that Mickey Mouse was quite popular there for a long time. I remember a picture of a Nazi fighter plane with an image of Mickey painted on the fuselage, straddling a bomb and hitting it with a hammer.

So again, not consistent folks.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	tacobob 2009-09-01 02:01 pm UTC (link)
	Really? That sounds odd. Disney was putting out Anti-Hitler (Der Fuehrer's Face) toons before it was the thing to do. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-09-01 06:53 pm UTC (link)
	We call that "hedging your bets." And those cartoons didn't go over there. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	arilou_skiff 2009-09-01 12:48 pm UTC (link)
	Err... Greeks are probably far more closely related to caucasians than say, the english are. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ex_stig213 2009-09-01 12:52 pm UTC (link)
	Agreed, but I'm adamant that Ancient Greeks would most have had browner skin than any one of the protagonists in "Hercules" did. Additionally - how come no-one has thought of Herc bitch-slapping Disney's Hercules yet? It's got to happen, people! No WAY is Herc going to let some prettyboy action-man-prototype steal his thunder! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashtoreth 2009-09-01 01:44 pm UTC (link)
	Greek coloring depends on which invasion period you're in. I'm descended from pale, tall, generally brown haired Greeks. Many modern Greeks with brown skin and dark hair are descended from Turkish rapes. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ex_stig213 2009-09-01 03:17 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, right. Sorry, I realise I must have sounded pretty stupid there. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ashtoreth 2009-09-01 10:23 pm UTC (link)
	Eh, I only researched it cuz I couldn't figure out why in my old black and white family pictures no one looked classic modern Greek. Seriously, ancient Greece was like rape central. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-09-02 03:18 am UTC (link)
	Well, in ANCIENT Greece those would have been Trojans, not Turks. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ladymirth 2009-09-01 02:45 pm UTC (link)
	Also, a) there must be some pretty valuable stuff in that garbage and b) Some of us actually like ~~Pirates of the Carribbean, Mulan, Aladdin, Hercules, Pocahontas~~ Disney. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ex_stig213 2009-09-01 03:16 pm UTC (link)
	I never said I didn't like it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-09-01 06:54 pm UTC (link)
	I did. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	janegray 2009-09-01 09:41 pm UTC (link)
	Motto. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	lieut_kettch 2009-09-01 02:20 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, fer cryin' out loud, Time-Warner's owned DC for years, and no-one's ever complained about that. Does Miramax ring a bell? Kill Bill, Volumes 1&2? No Country for Old Men? Trainspotting? Pulp Fiction? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	starwolf_oakley 2009-09-01 02:39 pm UTC (link)
	Warner Bros. has owned DC Comics since 1969, according to Wikipedia. Everyone confused/worried/concerned may not full understand that Disney has produced and distributed PG-13 and R movies through companies that aren't named Disney. I believe those companies include Touchstone, Miramax and Hollywood Pictures. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlroberson 2009-09-01 06:57 pm UTC (link)
	Technically, that was a company called "Kinney." They then bought Warner Brothers and took on the name. If you look at Warner films around that time, under the logo for a bit it says "a Kinney company." But Warner sounds more media-oriented so they adopted it. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	foxhack 2009-09-01 02:55 pm UTC (link)
	Doesn't Miramax refuse to release uncensored / unrated movies or somesuch? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	thandrak 2009-09-01 03:15 pm UTC (link)
	Once again, the only commentary that needs to be seen. And can not be unseen. http://i30.tinypic.com/2med2jk.jpg (SFW... NSFBrain. I'm warning you.) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lieut_kettch 2009-09-01 10:33 pm UTC (link)
	I know Eeyore normally goes around naked, but somehow it seems so much dirtier when he's wearing just a top. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	xdoop 2009-09-01 03:42 pm UTC (link)
	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyS3weMlxLA (Reply to this)

	parsimonia 2009-09-01 07:24 pm UTC (link)
	The image you have above the cut is bigger than 300x400 pixels. Any images larger than that should be under the cut, as per our posting guidelines. Please edit your post. (Reply to this)