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Tweak says, "BEES!"

box_in_the_box (box_in_the_box) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-08-28 14:38:00

Entry tags:

creator: steve ditko, theme: objectivism

"If only that Ditko fellow was less subtle and more overt regarding his personal politics ..."
For as much fail as it churns out, Big Hollywood occasionally offers some genuine gems.

I can't stand Objectivism, but I find Steve Ditko's treatment of it irresistibly compelling, perhaps because the comic book medium is a far more appropriate venue for such a Manichean philosophy than the thousand-page rape-justifying tomes that Ayn Rand routinely shat out (it certainly helps that none of Ditko's characters ever barfed up a 70-page screed like John Galt, not to mention the fact that Ditko actually managed to create characters who were more believable as human beings than any of Rand's strawmen or Mary Sues, even when his characters were radioactivity-powered superheroes).

The following four pages constitute "In Principle: The Unchecked Premise," a short story originally published in the 160-page graphic novel Steve Ditko's Static in 1988:

As crudely simplistic as it is, it's still better than either reading or watching the "fireplace scene" between Howard Roark and Dominique Francon in The Fountainhead, but then again, so is getting punched in the crotch until you hemorrhage internally and die.

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Re: An even darker view:

box_in_the_box
2009-08-29 07:34 am UTC (link)

The extremists are driving the dialogue on religion. They're the ones whose message always gets the most traction, the most attention and the most power. I'm not judging ALL religious people by the extremists, but judging by the relative degree of success that religious extremists enjoy, versus their sane and decent non-extremist counterparts, I'd say, once again, that this serves as evidence that the game is rigged in evil's favor, and that God himself is endorsing the evil views of those extremists. I believe that God really does hate women, and gays, and wants people to hate each other based on religious and ethnic differences, and that's one of the many reasons I hate God.

I don't hate the religious extremists because I'm afraid that their views are wrong - I hate them because I'm afraid that their views are RIGHT, and that God really is as much of a racist, sexist, homophobic piece of shit as they say he is. And given the success rates of sexism, racism and homophobia throughout human history, I'd say that God has pretty much shown his endorsement for those evil concepts.

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Re: An even darker view:

fredneil.livejournal.com
2009-08-29 08:56 am UTC (link)

You say you're not judging all religion based on the extremists, but that's exactly what you're doing, and because you disagree with a believe, you're twisting it to make it evil. You ignore any viewpoint other than "God allows evil because he is evil," and you make assertions that ignore all contrary evidence. Again, this sounds a lot like bigotry. Also, as I said before, misanthropy, since you're focusing on the worst of humanity and ignoring the better aspects.

Did you ever tell me whether or not you thought God should have created man without free will?

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Re: An even darker view:

box_in_the_box
2009-08-29 09:34 am UTC (link)

I think God created man with an intentionally handicapped free will, in that man technically has free will, but God intentionally programmed us to be naturally inclined toward evil, so that we'd have to work twice as hard to be good as to be evil. Therefore, I reject your question on its face, because God wants us to be evil, and if he has to stack the deck against free will to do it, so be it (see also: deliberately hardening Pharaoh's heart, just to have an excuse to punish Pharaoh for acting hard-hearted later, which kind of violates free will).

Bottom line, any being with absolute power which does not use it for absolute good is absolute evil, which is why any omnipotent being that exists in this reality is automatically evil. I am inherently incapable of forgiving omnipotence, to the point that I consider omnipotence to be synonymous with absolute evil, and if I could murder God, I would gladly do so, even if I was threatened with going to Hell for doing so, because I believe that THIS is Hell - reality itself, as wel know it, is Hell, ruled over by an unjust, unknowable God.

I will never forgive God. I will never love God. I will never accept that there can be any excuse or justification for an omnipotent God's actions, because within the context of our reality, God's omnipotence itself is proof of his evil.

I would believe this even if religious extremists did not exist, because I cannot accept that this reality is the product of a God who is anything other than pure, absolute evil. I will never accept that the suffering I have seen others go through could ever be justified by any circumstances, and quite frankly, I'd literally rather kill myself than ever come to any point of being willing to tolerate that this is, or should be, the natural order of things.

And yes, I am a misanthrope, but only insofar as I hate reality itself as much as I hate humanity, because reality itself is inherently evil and wrong.

Bigotry means harboring a grudge against one group in particular, out of balance to others. By definition, my all-encompassing hatred proves you wrong, so get the fuck over yourself, and stop bitching that I'm being bigoted against you, because this has nothing to do with you.

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	Re: An even darker view: xandertarbert 2009-08-29 12:58 pm UTC (link)
	God likes atheists, their hate is so close to belief... (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: An even darker view: runespoor7 2009-08-29 01:05 pm UTC (link)
	Box stated earlier in the discussion that he believes in an evil God, he's not an atheist. (Correct me if I misunderstood, Box.) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: An even darker view: xandertarbert 2009-08-29 01:15 pm UTC (link)
	Quoting from Pratchett again. Even hating God means you believe in him, it just means you don't like him. And since he hates him just so much, well, that's a lot of belief. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: An even darker view: runespoor7 2009-08-29 01:36 pm UTC (link)
	Well, yeah. That's what I just said. Box does believe in God, ergo he's not an atheist. (Again, according to what I understood of Box's comments.) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: An even darker view: box_in_the_box 2009-08-29 11:48 pm UTC (link)
	I don't dispute this. :) The difference between me and the religious fundamentalists is that I base my beliefs on evidence - and in my case, part of my evidence for the existence of an evil God is the overwhelming preponderance of religious fundamentalists themselves, which indicates to me that God exists and endorses their message. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: An even darker view: icon_uk 2009-08-30 08:43 pm UTC (link)
	Except that's refusing the concept of free will. We always have a choice to do evil or good and oppose evil, but it's the choosing which defines our nature, whether we believe it's shaped by a deity or not. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: An even darker view: box_in_the_box 2009-08-29 11:45 pm UTC (link)
	You understood correctly, although in my more optimistic moments, I tend toward atheism, because it's incredibly comforting to me to think that this world might NOT be what some higher power WANTS it to be. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: An even darker view: runespoor7 2009-08-29 11:53 pm UTC (link)
	I find existentialism a great relief as well. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: An even darker view: box_in_the_box 2009-08-30 12:18 am UTC (link)
	The closest I've ever come to optimism in my life is Camus' thoughts on Sisyphus. And that was when I was in grade school. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: An even darker view: kingrockwell 2009-08-29 03:39 pm UTC (link)
	Hey now, we're not all angry and misanthropic, it's just that sometimes we're outnumbered to the point we overcompensate. And by what Box has said, he's more a maltheist than an atheist. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: An even darker view: box_in_the_box 2009-08-29 11:50 pm UTC (link)
	And by what Box has said, he's more a maltheist than an atheist. This exactly. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: An even darker view: kingrockwell 2009-08-30 02:12 am UTC (link)
	Hey, I can relate. For awhile I spent so much energy being angry at Christianity and the Bible that I forgot I don't even believe in God. I got better, but, if you can help it, never live in a deeply religious household while you're working out your own beliefs! (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: An even darker view: box_in_the_box 2009-08-29 11:43 pm UTC (link)
	In my more optimistic moments, I'm an atheist. It's incredibly comforting to believe that this world is not the product of any higher power's deliberate design. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: An even darker view: felinephoenix 2009-08-29 11:48 pm UTC (link)
	Not all atheists believe what Box is saying up there. Not even close. (Although, in the interests of full disclosure, I waver between atheism and agnosticism.) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: An even darker view: box_in_the_box 2009-08-29 11:53 pm UTC (link)
	The views that I've expressed in this thread are not atheist at all. They're MALtheist. I WISH I could be an atheist. It would be incredibly comforting to believe that this fucked-up world is NOT the product of what a higher power WANTS it to be. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: An even darker view: felinephoenix 2009-08-30 05:30 am UTC (link)
	I know. I read the other comments! I was just explaining to the OP that, no, not all atheists are god-haters in disguise (an irritatingly prevalent idea in our society, ugh). (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

i miss being able to edit comments -

felinephoenix, 2009-08-30 05:32 am UTC

	Re: An even darker view: xandertarbert 2009-08-30 12:42 am UTC (link)
	Same here. I edge to atheist when happy, and agnostic when depressed. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: An even darker view: felinephoenix 2009-08-30 05:42 am UTC (link)
	Most of the time, it's the opposite for me. When I'm feeling more optimistic, I'm more inclined to believe in a higher power. But it varies... sometimes I find the idea of atheism more uplifting than religion. Mostly because I've never been fond of the idea that people are only good because God tells us to be, you see, and I was exposed to that a lot. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: An even darker view: kagome654 2009-08-30 03:57 pm UTC (link)
	Because we're all so hateful! Can you feel my hate radiating through the computer right now? Grr...argh and so on.... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: An even darker view: fredneil.livejournal.com 2009-08-29 07:26 pm UTC (link)
	You are a bigot and a hypocrite. I'm sure that if someone told another poster to "get over themselves" when that poster complained about racism or sexism, you'd protest. Your ignorant self-righteousness only makes it worse. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: An even darker view:

box_in_the_box
2009-08-30 12:17 am UTC (link)

You are a bigot and a hypocrite.

No. I hate God. I don't give a shit about you, one way or the other. The fact that I hold a belief that you consider offensive does not give you the right to declare me a bigot, or else I could declare you a bigot for refusing to acknowledge that I could believe what I believe without being a bigot.

In any event, I'm done with this conversation, and I'm done with you.

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	Re: An even darker view: icon_uk 2009-08-29 10:13 am UTC (link)
	The extremists are driving the dialogue on religion. No, they're expounding a monologue, and one that the majority of religious people find as loathesome as aetheists do. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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