InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Buh"

Doop (xdoop) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-08-12 17:22:00

Entry tags:

char: krypto the superdog, char: lex luthor, char: superboy/kon-el/conner kent, char: superman/clark kent, creator: francis manapul, creator: geoff johns, title: adventure comics

Adventure Comics #1

Does anyone else think Superman's attitude towards Lex here is a little OOC? I mean, they used to be friends when they were kids and in Grant Morrison's JLA run Superman said that "there's a good man in there somewhere."

The issue also introduces a new character, Simon Valentine, who will apparently be Superboy's "greatest friend-- and his greatest enemy." Even before that line he reminded me a little bit of a young Lex Luthor. It'll be interesting to see what happens with him.

Also, this was on DC's main page.

Superboy-Prime!

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	daningram 2009-08-13 12:19 am UTC (link)
	It's not just Johns. I honestly think that it's an editor's mandate. Batgirl, Windfall, Jericho (expressly stated to have bad blood), Magneta, Piper, Heatwave, Trickster... Of late, those that have redeemed themselves have gone evil and those with evil in their background have dived in face first. Those that have remained good are few and far between. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	tahngarth 2009-08-13 12:23 am UTC (link)
	Certainly, it's an easy and cheap trend to jump on. But I still think Johns is one of the prime proponents of this idea, and he's certainly got enough clout to make the editors listen to him as well. (Reply to this) (Parent)

runespoor7
2009-08-13 12:24 am UTC (link)

You can add Jason to that list, and only time will tell for Rose Wilson. There's Steph, who might be Batgirl. There's Huntress, whose links to mafia have thankfully not been used to push her into being a villain. (Oh, and Cass recently came back to the good side but again, no guarantees whether that'll stick.)

If it is an editorial mandate, it's one of the most disgusting things I've ever read.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	tavella 2009-08-13 01:07 am UTC (link)
	It's pretty depressing. I'm having trouble thinking of anyone with "bad blood" who hasn't gone evil, even if they were originally presented as a hero. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

It's not just them..

daningram
2009-08-13 01:19 am UTC (link)

Look at the heroes, all their questionable acts are white washed away.

Atom Smasher acts like it's his God given right to be in the JSA, the team that's supposed to set the example for all other heroes out there, despite his support for Black Adam countless times over. Bros before justice, apparently.

Damien, treated as a troubled child despite having *murdered* enemies for no tactical reason. Guess the 'No killing rule' only applies to Cass.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: It's not just them..

xdoop
2009-08-13 01:26 am UTC (link)

Atom Smasher actually turned himself in, and was forced to serve with the Suicide Squad.

Damien, treated as a troubled child despite having *murdered* enemies for no tactical reason. Guess the 'No killing rule' only applies to Cass.

Because Batman, like Wolverine, is a hypocrite when it comes to his children (though to be fair, Damien isn't half as loathsome as Daken is).

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: It's not just them.. daningram 2009-08-13 01:29 am UTC (link)
	I don't think it should matter that Atom Smasher turned himself in. Besides the fact that he helped Black Adam after Adam murdered an etire nation, he still had blood on his hands. He has no right to be on a team that's supposed to define heroism, that sets the example for everyone else. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: It's not just them.. xdoop 2009-08-13 01:31 am UTC (link)
	Then should Obsidian get kicked off? And Alan Scott is married to an ex-villain; what about him? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: It's not just them..

daningram
2009-08-13 01:38 am UTC (link)

Obsidian has the excuse of being insane. As for Alan Scott, I don't see who his ex-wife reflects on his character.

Atom Smasher was a hero who killed for no tactical reason. He overthrew a freakin' country and helped set Black Adam up as dictator. Yes, he got a pardon from the Suicide Squad, but he got that because he was part of an underhanded smear campaign against Black Adam. Rather than speak out and reveal what happened, he blackmailed Waller for his freedom.

So Al's a killer, traitor but still belongs on the JSA? Fuck that.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: It's not just them..

xdoop
2009-08-13 01:46 am UTC (link)

Obsidian has the excuse of being insane.

So does Black Adam during WWIII.

As for Alan Scott, I don't see who his ex-wife reflects on his character.

They're divorced?

He overthrew a freakin' country and helped set Black Adam up as dictator

Wasn't the previous regime also a dictatorship? I think Black Adam did a pretty good job as a ruler until his new family was killed and he wiped out the country responsible.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: It's not just them.. daningram 2009-08-13 01:54 am UTC (link)
	Obsidian had a pre existing mental condition anf years of child abuse/emotional issues. Black Adam was just pissed. And yeah, the guy Atom Smasher helped replace was a bastard. But two wrongs don't make a right. Plus, Atom Smasher helped get Adam's family killed thanks to an ambush he helped execute. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: It's not just them..

xdoop
2009-08-13 02:13 am UTC (link)

And yeah, the guy Atom Smasher helped replace was a bastard. But two wrongs don't make a right.

Again, it's not like Black Adam was a horrible ruler. Until the Four Horsemen attacked, things were going great in Khandaq.

Plus, Atom Smasher helped get Adam's family killed thanks to an ambush he helped execute.

If anyone was to blame for what happened, it was Amanda Waller (she was the one who forced Atom Smasher to do it, and who doctored the footage and released it to the media).

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: It's not just them..

daningram
2009-08-13 11:08 am UTC (link)

Good ruler or not, what Atom Smasher did was what no hero should do, toppling a government and needlessly killing soldiers. Hell, he even tried to kill a gutted Hourman!

And while yes, Waller was responsible for what happened following the ambush, Atom Smasher knew what she did and said/did nothing, save use it as blackmail for his own freedom. Isn't a hero supposed to do the right thing regardless of the consquences?

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	icon_uk 2009-08-13 07:33 am UTC (link)
	Huntress? Helena's family were decidedly criminal. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	bjorkubus 2009-08-13 01:24 am UTC (link)
	Raven has got to be the poster child for the Evil Genetics Makes You Evil gimmick. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	majingojira 2009-08-13 04:21 am UTC (link)
	To paraphrase Linkara: "Raven: if at first you suceed--try, try again to recapture that sucess and fail miserably at each successive attempt." (Reply to this) (Parent)

	xdoop 2009-08-13 01:30 am UTC (link)
	Windfall was forced to serve on the Suicide Squad after she killed her rapists, and she later died trying to save them. And Piper is still a good guy. His return to villainy didn't even last a whole issue. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	daningram 2009-08-13 01:33 am UTC (link)
	The Windfall in Suicide Squad bore little resemblence to the one from Outsiders, especially given her Hannibal Lector scene with the shrink, and I find it hard to believe that she wouldn't have gone to her friends instead of resorting to murder. As for Piper, his 'return' to villainy was good enough to fool the Rogues and hero community. Says somethin', IMO. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-08-13 01:40 am UTC (link)
	Fair enough, I didn't read the SS series, just her wikipedia article. As for Piper, his 'return' to villainy was good enough to fool the Rogues and hero community. Says somethin', IMO. So? The point is, he didn't actually go bad. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	interrobamf 2009-08-13 01:34 am UTC (link)
	Ssh! You're getting in the way of DC conspiracy theories! (Reply to this) (Parent)

jlbarnett
2009-08-13 03:20 am UTC (link)

of course all this talk of genetic determination overlooks some things.

they're all already friends or family of established characters. These pre-formed relationships provide immediate drama on the good/evil front rather than having to wait months to create a believable enough reaction as opposed to "oh, no! My best friend of 24 hours has betrayed us!"

If they don't do evil they can't have redemption arcs.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	daningram 2009-08-13 10:45 am UTC (link)
	Windfall was turned evil and died far away from her established relationships. Cass was laughed off after her turn to evil, no one really seemed to care too much that Piper was evil, etc. So I don't think 'it was just for the story' applies here. Hell, Cass wouldf still be evil if it weren't for fanboy outrage. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jlbarnett 2009-08-13 10:53 am UTC (link)
	laughed off? If they wanted her to be Robin's Talia I don't think they expected the fans to laugh her off. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	daningram 2009-08-13 10:55 am UTC (link)
	No, I meant Bruce and Tim laughed her off when discussing her defection. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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