InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "For pony!"

starwolf_oakley (starwolf_oakley) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-08-05 17:37:00

Entry tags:

char: batgirl/oracle/barbara gordon, char: black canary/dinah lance, char: huntress/helena bertinelli, creator: gail simone, creator: joe bennett, title: birds of prey

BOP #68: A canary or a "mock"ing bird? or The Sexual History of Helena Bertinelli
The first page of Cry For Justice #2 has caused some controversy on this board and elsewhere. But it's not like that kind of "behavior" is unheard of in Huntress' history.

First, Babs and the girls talk about Savant, who kidnapped Black Canary and chained her to a ~~fridge~~ bed.

Uh-oh. Anyone know the exact issues?

This was revealed in OUTSIDERS #12, but not the circumstances. Nightwing must have told Oracle. Because that's not weird at all.

Ah, so Roy is "quick to let fly." No wonder Cheshire got pregnant!

Well, give she's now about Roy's age due to that Lazarus Pit dip, it's less "mother and son" these days.

How does that date go?

Sheesh, I thought they only kept the masks on in ULTIMATE or ALL-STAR stories. Supposedly Gail Simone wrote this so Helene could find realize she deserved better in the romance department. Is a threesome with Hal Jordan and Lady Blackhawk really better? Well, I doubt they'd keep their masks on.

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parsimonia
2009-08-06 05:24 pm UTC (link)

Plot device, yes.

Having the victim re-tell the story to blame himself/pretend it didn't happen and never revisiting it again does seem really weird.

Does he ever specifically mention him and Tarantula on the roof after Blockbuster was shot, though? I know we did get Bruce chastising Dick for losing sight of the value of his life, but you would think if Bruce knew what Tarantula did to him, he'd react a bit differently. Like emphasize to Dick that he shouldn't be feeling guilty, and then go and personally see to it that Tarantula is arrested for anything and everything he can get proof on, you know?

Especially since part of it is people wanting it not to have happened, yet being unable to forget it happened. And another part are people who really do believe that Dick, as a man, could not be raped so his after-the-fact retcon is accurate to them.

Yes, this. Not dealing with it afterwards either leads to downplaying rape and sexual assault (with the added false implication that men can't be rape/sexual assault victims at the hands of women), or not acknowledging something that happened to the character.

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(Anonymous)
2009-08-06 05:46 pm UTC (link)

One last point to contribute here is that there -are- occasions where writers will use self-insertion characters in order -to- mess with a character's life. Either with the pseudo-romantic idea of becoming this character's healing influence and support, or by virtue of empowerment in that they have a character who -is- capable of so thoroughly derailing this strong central figure. The nonconsentual sex reinforces this idea, with her showing dominance.

Not to imply that this -is- what Devin does with Tarantula necessarily, just that it -is- a possibility and the fact that Tarantula has been a hassle to Dick does not immediately negate the possibility of this being a Mary Sue-as-fulfillment character.

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runespoor7
2009-08-06 06:35 pm UTC (link)

by virtue of empowerment in that they have a character who -is- capable of so thoroughly derailing this strong central figure

That's an interesting idea. But it implies that the author would be for their own character rather than for the hero, if I'm reading you right, or that it'd be more about their own character than about the other. In the case of Tarantula and Nightwing, I has the impression it was about Nightwing, and specifically his reacting to another new crime-fighter in 'his' (not really) city. Like others have said, Tarantula was only pretty much a footnote in the long lists of things gone wrong with Dick's life, most of which were orchestrated by Blockbuster. She only became so important after she killed Blockbuster and Dick felt twice as responsible for everything she did.

Honestly, Tarantula sucks at what she does. I'd think that if she were a wish-fulfillement character, she'd be a little more competent a crime-fighter at least once. Instead, she's a murderer, and the first murder she committed is the reason why Dick and she can't bring Blockbuster to justice the way Dick had convinced her to try. At one point she works for Blockbuster. She's got other skills - she's good at psychology and playing with people's emotions, she fights well and she raises fair points about crime - but she sucks at long or even mid-term planning.

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The term Mary Sue really needs to die.

batcookies
2009-08-07 12:59 am UTC (link)

As I said elsewhere, Tarantula's story ends with her acting like a selfish cowardly bitch, trying to kill Nightwing herself, ultimately defeated by a Nightwing who, after resolving to the right thing, absolutely demolishes her with laughable ease.

She didn't "one-up most of the Bat family", she was a rookie that managed to keep up with them and occasionally surprise them (particularly in public venues where they couldn't respond to the fullest of their abilities). When push came to shove, Nightwing was able to defeat her while in crutches.

And she proved that, while she may have gone after people that were even worse than herself, she was a rotten person too, quite willing to kill a good man that she claimed to have feelings for, in order to avoid jail.

This is a wish-fulfillment character?

Maybe for someone that needs psychiatric help. But I don't buy it.

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sistermagpie
2009-08-06 05:46 pm UTC (link)

Does he ever specifically mention him and Tarantula on the roof after Blockbuster was shot, though?

I seem to remember him saying to Tarantula that he had decided to have sex with the most inappropriate person ever due to his state of mind afterwards, but I don't remember anything else. Nobody else knows about it. Not that it can't be realistic for someone to do this--I've seen people do that in real life. But by saying that to Tarantula it's like he's apologizing to his own rapist and assuring her she did nothing wrong.

And it just always feels unfinished to me to leave it that way--maybe especially because so much in comics people are always having flashbacks or thinking about bad moments in their lives. If Dick's just repressed it it seems like it should come out again, even if it's in some subtle way. Otherwise it seems like a validation of the attitude that of course he couldn't have been raped/it was no big deal/nothing happened to the character.

Meanwhile it honestly seems like for the audience it's anything but forgotten. It's the first thing that comes up when Tarantula's name gets mentioned. Meanwhile there's the context of Dick being a character that really does get treated like a sex object the way female characters usually are, with a lot of the same conclusions about him.

And the thing is, it's not like Dick has to have a big breakdown. But he is somebody who's experienced sexual assault. Stephanie Brown can say that about herself (regarding an attempted assualt) but it seems like Dick can't, even though he's usually somebody who's pretty honest with himself.

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