InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Flavio hates you all!"

mysteryfan (mysteryfan) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-05-23 09:14:00

Entry tags:

char: batman/bruce wayne, char: black canary/dinah lance, creator: frank miller, creator: jim lee, creator: scott williams, publisher: dc comics, title: all-star batman and robin

"Tough love from some crazy Irish chick."

psychop_rex requested ASBAR, Black Canary. Specifically, the scene with the car...

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	merseybeatler 2009-05-23 09:30 am UTC (link)
	It really disturbs me that every character, male or female, has a practically identical facial structure in this comic. Among other thngs. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	mysteryfan 2009-05-23 09:41 am UTC (link)
	Heh. I haven't thought about the facial features--too busy seeing if I could bring myself to leave in the panel where she tells him he's hot, 'my good man' and getting distracted by the dialogue. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	volksjager 2009-05-23 09:46 am UTC (link)
	Would have to agree. Micheal Turner had the same problem. If there was more than one female in a panel, it was hard to know who was speaking... (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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danielolsen, 2009-05-23 10:44 am UTC

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volksjager, 2009-05-23 11:20 am UTC

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danielolsen, 2009-05-23 12:17 pm UTC

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merseybeatler, 2009-05-23 11:03 am UTC

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volksjager, 2009-05-23 11:21 am UTC

	kingrockwell 2009-05-23 11:27 am UTC (link)
	Have I mentioned before how much I dislike Jim Lee work? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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scottyquick, 2009-05-24 12:11 pm UTC

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kingrockwell, 2009-05-24 06:14 pm UTC

	aaron_bourque 2009-05-23 03:58 pm UTC (link)
	Jim Lee isn't a good artist. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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bluefall, 2009-05-23 10:09 pm UTC

	jasper_stars 2009-05-23 09:50 am UTC (link)
	Is it just me, or is Batsy being way too much of a whiney little bitch right now? I mean, more than his usual Batdickery. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	queen_marshed 2009-05-23 10:38 am UTC (link)
	That's the Godamned Batman for you. (Reply to this) (Parent)

parsimonia
2009-05-23 09:57 am UTC (link)

You know, Miller has a lot* of people teasing Batman about him/his car/whatever being "queer". It's interesting that his version of Batman, which in general is supposed to be very masculine and hetero (in that "rawr, I'm tough, I fight people, eat rats, women obsess over me and I have lots of stubble on my chin!" kind of way), but also seems to involve vague accusations of being gay.

*And by "a lot", I guess I probably only mean from what I can remember, there's Canary here, and then Dick earlier. =P

Is it Miller trying to be funny/self-mocking? Is it that in order for Batman to live up to that masculine ideal he's got to, I don't know, assert that he's not queer? Or is Miller just doing a poor job of taking a dig at the silliness of Batman?

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mysteryfan
2009-05-23 10:35 am UTC (link)

Batman also calls thugs things like 'sweetheart' and 'princess'. Is it that in order for Batman to live up to that masculine ideal he's got to, I don't know, assert that he's not queer? I don't know. There's that particular element, and then there's a lot of mocking of Batmythos in general.

Is it Miller trying to be funny/self-mocking? Or is Miller just doing a poor job of taking a dig at the silliness of Batman?

It's fascinating to me, but I don't know. Other possibilities include: is he mocking the people who mocked his earlier work with Batman; mocking the people who mocked earlier issues of ASBAR; himself--for writing a superhero comic; himself for being in too far with the Batstuff; us for reading it? Batfans for buying into the mythos? Does he have a love/hate relationship with Batman? Is he having fun with it or kind of pissed off?

I can't tell what's going on. I kind of think a certain amount is directed at detractors of the earlier issues of ASBAR. The rest, I don't know. He kind of went into it, though, starting with issue #1 making Bruce -- well, it smacked of making Bruce a pedophile. Was that impression purposeful or not? I kind of think it had to be. Does he hate the character of Batman? I kind of think maybe so. But then the whole tone of the way he portrays the character changes by the last two issues. Of course, part of the deal is how many years and months between issues.

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parsimonia, 2009-05-23 12:27 pm UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 01:39 pm UTC

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parsimonia, 2009-05-23 01:44 pm UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 01:57 pm UTC

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sailorlibra, 2009-05-23 06:59 pm UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 07:08 pm UTC

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sailorlibra, 2009-05-24 04:06 pm UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-25 10:59 am UTC

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parsimonia, 2009-05-23 10:23 pm UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 10:29 pm UTC

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parsimonia, 2009-05-23 11:07 pm UTC

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bluefall, 2009-05-23 11:26 pm UTC

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runespoor7, 2009-05-23 02:09 pm UTC

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icon_uk, 2009-05-23 02:19 pm UTC

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darkknightjrk, 2009-06-04 01:30 am UTC

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parsimonia, 2009-06-04 01:25 pm UTC

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jlroberson, 2009-05-23 07:28 pm UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 08:12 pm UTC

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jlroberson, 2009-05-23 08:13 pm UTC

	sistermagpie 2009-05-23 10:36 am UTC (link)
	Hyper-masculine seems to often go hand in hand with gay panic. The worst thing a real man can be is gay, and everyone in this universe seems to therefore use it as an insult. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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parsimonia, 2009-05-23 12:12 pm UTC

	mysteryfan 2009-05-23 10:37 am UTC (link)
	Oh, and if he is gay, he's kind of gay for Superman. That's who he's going on about up there. He's obsessed with him. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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parsimonia, 2009-05-23 12:11 pm UTC

They're so DIFFERENT. Yet so THE SAME. -

mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 01:41 pm UTC

jlroberson
2009-05-23 05:45 pm UTC (link)

If you've read Miller long enough, you've seen enough signs that he may be gay and doing everything in the world to hide it.

I would post examples but I haven't a spare two weeks.

I'd just offer that the hints Bats might be gay extend to Miller's Joker. You could easily read the whole of this and Dark Knight as one man trying to kill his self-awareness.

And I'd also offer that Miller has no goddamn idea how women act or think. That they all exist only in relation to Batman, even WW. That Miller thinks an assertive woman is also necessarily a ballbuster.(of course, he was recently divorced) That kind of thing.

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parsimonia, 2009-05-23 06:42 pm UTC

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jlroberson, 2009-05-23 07:20 pm UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 08:03 pm UTC

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jlroberson, 2009-05-23 08:32 pm UTC

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parsimonia, 2009-05-23 09:44 pm UTC

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parsimonia, 2009-05-23 11:07 pm UTC

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jlroberson, 2009-05-23 11:52 pm UTC

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jlroberson, 2009-05-23 11:56 pm UTC

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darkknightjrk, 2009-06-04 01:40 am UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 07:04 pm UTC

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jlroberson, 2009-05-23 07:38 pm UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 07:54 pm UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 07:57 pm UTC

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jlroberson, 2009-05-23 08:17 pm UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-24 02:27 pm UTC

	mullon 2009-05-23 10:05 am UTC (link)
	...Irish? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-05-23 11:16 am UTC (link)
	Didn't you know, every character with sonic powers is Irish by default, its the whole Banshee thing... You know, Banshee, Siryn, Silver Banshee, Tyroc (Not a lot of people remember that HE'S really Irish) ;) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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merseybeatler, 2009-05-23 12:01 pm UTC

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jlroberson, 2009-05-23 07:26 pm UTC

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ulf_boehnke, 2009-05-23 12:14 pm UTC

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icon_uk, 2009-05-23 02:20 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2009-05-23 02:14 pm UTC

	sistermagpie 2009-05-23 11:15 am UTC (link)
	I love that everything about this Batman makes him completely unappealing to me as a woman. Like I know he's put with Catwoman etc., but my god, what a complete brat. I'd pity any romantic partner, man or woman, who took him on. Martha would be horrified. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	runespoor7 2009-05-23 11:22 am UTC (link)
	I think Canary at least is in it for the trainwrecky lulz. And it is somewhat fascinating to watch. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mysteryfan 2009-05-23 11:32 am UTC (link)
	Heh. I don't think this Batman knows from Romance. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 11:38 am UTC

	aaron_bourque 2009-05-23 10:08 pm UTC (link)
	Everything about this Batman makes him completely unappealing to me as a fan. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	lencannon 2009-05-23 12:05 pm UTC (link)
	I can't believe this is real. I'm aghast. Part of me loves it. (Reply to this) (Thread)

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 01:42 pm UTC

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aaron_bourque, 2009-05-23 10:11 pm UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-24 01:24 pm UTC

	bluefall 2009-05-23 12:38 pm UTC (link)
	I like how of course he wants to hit Canary for being mouthy. Of course he does. But he doesn't, because he's the hero, and that means he takes all that perfectly natural, inevitable masculine anger and dominance and turns it against the guys who don't control themselves. Frank Miller, John Ringo: separated at birth? (Reply to this) (Thread)

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 01:48 pm UTC

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bluefall, 2009-05-23 02:09 pm UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-23 04:09 pm UTC

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jlroberson, 2009-05-23 07:43 pm UTC

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xandertarbert, 2009-05-24 12:39 am UTC

	kabukiokami 2009-05-23 04:39 pm UTC (link)
	Batmobile is K.I.T.T? (Reply to this) (Thread)

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richiedaley, 2009-05-23 06:25 pm UTC

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kabukiokami, 2009-05-23 08:06 pm UTC

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bluefall, 2009-05-23 10:03 pm UTC

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parsimonia, 2009-05-23 11:09 pm UTC

psychop_rex
2009-05-24 12:21 am UTC (link)

Strangely enough, I actually kinda like this Black Canary. In any case, she's got a good use of the English language, which is refreshing in a comic that largely consists of inner dialogue, grunts, snarls, putdowns, and various uses of the terms 'Goddamn', 'Batman', and 'Goddamn Batman' (although, to be fair, she uses both here). She seems to have a fair amount of spunk, by Miller standards, anyway, and at any rate, a chatty Irish cigar-smoking Black Canary is unique enough to be interesting. Has she turned up anywhere else in the series?
Oh, and a thought - did anyone else think that Bats' reference to her being from 'County Monaghan' might have been a reference to Tommy Monaghan from 'Hitman'? It makes sense - Miller's almost certainly read 'Hitman', and it's chock-full of exactly the sort of ultra-violent characters he loves (only with more charisma).

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-25 10:56 am UTC

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psychop_rex, 2009-05-25 03:30 pm UTC

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mysteryfan, 2009-05-26 11:39 am UTC

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psychop_rex, 2009-05-26 03:04 pm UTC

	hyaroo 2009-05-24 04:23 am UTC (link)
	If the word "goddamn" was removed from the English language, the character of ASBAR would all perish. (Reply to this)

	superfan1 2009-05-25 03:48 am UTC (link)
	The goddamn batman does not like people talking bad about his goddman, I suprise with black canary pushing her luck. He didn't shove her out of his car and make her walk home afterwards. (Reply to this)

	darkknightjrk 2009-06-04 01:45 am UTC (link)
	If this was actually in-continuity, I would probably be as pissed as a lot of people are about this series, but since it isn't, I'm just enjoying it for the craziness. (Reply to this) (Thread)

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mysteryfan, 2009-06-04 04:36 pm UTC