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arbre_rieur (arbre_rieur) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-04-02 12:25:00

Entry tags:

creator: grant morrison, creator: mark waid, publisher: boom!, title: irredeemable

Grant Morrison on typecasting and the Internet
The first issue of Mark Waid's new creator-owned superhero comic, Irredeemable, came out yesterday. It's about the world's greatest superhero becoming its greatest supervillain. Anyway, it has an afterword by Grant Morrison, who, in-between praising the book, discusses how society has a strong tendency to typecast not just actors but people in general, inluding writers.

Is this entry legal? Here, one page from the issue, to cover my bases --

(Post a new comment)

	halloweenjack 2009-04-02 03:52 pm UTC (link)
	[second paragraph in Morrison's intro] It must be Thursday, Grant Morrison's feeling sorry for himself again. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	cissie_king 2009-04-02 04:15 pm UTC (link)
	Well, SD is bitching about Morrison because he said something completely inocous... again. Yes, it does seem like a Thursday. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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box_in_the_box, 2009-04-02 10:18 pm UTC

Mod Note: -

schmevil, 2009-04-02 10:51 pm UTC

Re: Mod Note: -

cissie_king, 2009-04-02 10:55 pm UTC

Re: Mod Note: -

cissie_king, 2009-04-02 11:02 pm UTC

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schmevil, 2009-04-02 11:17 pm UTC

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arbre_rieur, 2009-04-02 11:26 pm UTC

Mod Note: -

schmevil, 2009-04-02 11:07 pm UTC

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box_in_the_box, 2009-04-02 11:09 pm UTC

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schmevil, 2009-04-02 10:45 pm UTC

	volksjager 2009-04-02 04:20 pm UTC (link)
	This just in ,"life is NOT fair". (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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bwmedia.wordpress.com, 2009-04-03 09:25 pm UTC

	icon_uk 2009-04-02 04:36 pm UTC (link)
	Can't say I've even once felt a self-pitying vibe from Morrison. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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	moneyless_jew 2009-04-06 07:33 am UTC (link)
	Ah yes, I forgot the s_d rule: Morrison and Waid cannot like each other because OMGZ HE WROTE WALLY AND CREATED BART, not that Morrison has anything against them. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	J. Caleb Mozzocco already said everything I would have said about this: box_in_the_box 2009-04-02 04:32 pm UTC (link)
	http://everydayislikewednesday.blogspot.com/2009/03/review-irreedeemable-1-and-its-lame.html (Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: J. Caleb Mozzocco already said everything I would have said about this: -

rab62, 2009-04-02 05:52 pm UTC

Re: J. Caleb Mozzocco already said everything I would have said about this: -

halloweenjack, 2009-04-02 06:28 pm UTC

Re: J. Caleb Mozzocco already said everything I would have said about this: -

schmevil, 2009-04-02 11:27 pm UTC

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box_in_the_box, 2009-04-02 11:29 pm UTC

xdoop
2009-04-02 05:02 pm UTC (link)

Grant Morrison's description of "Wicker Sue" makes it sound a lot more horrifying and deep than it really was, imo (not that I didn't enjoy 52).

Also, I find it funny that in an interview about Irredeemable, Waid said the Plutonian is "not a noble villain. He's not the Dr. Doom-ish villain who honestly believes what he's doing is best for the world. I would say he falls more in the category of sociopath, although there's a lot more to him than that." Waid's Doctor Doom was an evil bastard with no morals who sacrificed his girlfriend to some demons and wore her skin.

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	chipsnopotatoes 2009-04-02 05:21 pm UTC (link)
	i didn't know grant morrison was a scientist. (Reply to this)

parsimonia
2009-04-02 05:27 pm UTC (link)

"...a twilight world of bodiless murderers, serial killers, war criminals and madmen..."

You know, it's true that fans with keyboards can be rude, dismissive and thoughtless in their criticism, but sometimes I am honestly taken aback by how common it is for those working in the industry to openly deride and make fun of fans.

He is comparing us, or people like us, to murderers, serial killers, war criminals and madmen. It's pretty sad. Whatever happened to having a good customer service attitude, guys? ;-)

So, yeah, thanks, Grant! I may criticize your writing, but trust me, my bank account is a hell of a lot smaller than yours. Surely that is some consolation to your wounded ego?

Anyways. So from what Morrison says here, this comic is about disgruntled comic book writers turning to evil in response to those dastardly readers/fans/customers with their soul-crushing opinions and comments?

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jarodrussell, 2009-04-02 08:16 pm UTC

Damn, I never thought of that until now. -

scottyquick, 2009-04-02 08:19 pm UTC

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jarodrussell, 2009-04-02 08:27 pm UTC

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parsimonia, 2009-04-02 09:24 pm UTC

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jarodrussell, 2009-04-02 10:01 pm UTC

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parsimonia, 2009-04-02 10:22 pm UTC

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aegof.livejournal.com, 2009-04-02 11:12 pm UTC

Don't they sort of have a point. -

freyaeinde, 2009-04-02 11:25 pm UTC

Re: Don't they sort of have a point. -

jarodrussell, 2009-04-02 11:41 pm UTC

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freyaeinde, 2009-04-03 12:24 pm UTC

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darkknightjrk, 2009-04-04 02:18 pm UTC

	thanekos 2009-04-02 05:28 pm UTC (link)
	the internet is the phantom zone. well, that makes sense. (Reply to this) (Thread)

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cissie_king, 2009-04-02 05:33 pm UTC

	darkknightjrk 2009-04-02 05:56 pm UTC (link)
	His work might be hyper-ADD shenanagins to some people, but you gotta admit this about Morrison--motherfucker knows how to sell a book. I'll have to take a look at this. (Reply to this)

espanolbot
2009-04-02 05:59 pm UTC (link)

Hrrm, reminds me of the time one of the Star Wars (I think that's what he wrote) spin-off authors had a go at me and the other Casstoons people due to the early early strips showed writers being injured, because despite it being a joke about how people were over-reacting to things in comics (like Cass going evil, which admittedly I'm one of those people) he took it as evidence that we wanted to go out and injure/murder people.

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	thandrak 2009-04-02 06:06 pm UTC (link)
	A: Sit on it, Morrison. B: Know why? Cause Mr. Waid was the editor for Who's Who. And he knows comics like few other men do. And he cares when he writes his stories. (Reply to this)

	gwalla.livejournal.com 2009-04-02 06:08 pm UTC (link)
	"I would always be regarded in comics fan circles as the madcap purveyor of free-form gibberish" It's not like Morrisson didn't confirm it with Final Crisis. I also find it pretty funny that he's holding up a Superman pastiche as evidence that Mark Waid isn't a Silver Age fanboy. (And I like Morrisson!) (Reply to this)

	seriousfic 2009-04-02 06:21 pm UTC (link)
	Alright, who wrote up Waid on Fandom_Wank? (Reply to this)

sistermagpie
2009-04-02 06:22 pm UTC (link)

I don't get a self-pitying vibe here either, except to the level that is kind of unavoidable given the topic. I do think what he's talking about with typing is true. I remember hearing about William Peter Blatty, who was known for writing light comedies and was always called in for that. Then he wrote The Exorcist and a year later when somebody suggested him for a comedy people were like: The guy who wrote The Exorcist? Are you crazy?

Which I think happens even outside of writing and acting, but especially happens there. Which is why it's always a special triumph when you get something like Elvis' reinvention.

In terms of the Phantom Zone, I don't think he's comparing fandom to murderers and serial killers, he's comparing the experience of dipping into a sites where people are yelling about you and insulting you to looking into the phantom zone full of dark characters. It's not that yelling and insulting on the net is like murdering, but just that it's like peering into a world full of people who do not wish you well.

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seriousfic
2009-04-02 06:31 pm UTC (link)

Also, the premise is that Superman (well, you know...) is driven insane by listening to people say mean things about him? Now, okay, I know people tend to accentuate the negative, but he's Superman (not really). What, you mean to tell me he never hears Megan Fox thinking out loud that he's a sexy bitch or some mom thanking him for saving her baby or a kid defending him in a "who's cooler, Not Batman or Not Superman?" argument?

CRY MOAR, EMO SUPERMAN.

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	mullon 2009-04-02 06:44 pm UTC (link)
	If Grant Morrison doesn't want to be known as the purveyor of gibberish... (Reply to this) (Thread)

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whatistriestine, 2009-04-03 12:07 pm UTC

	zegim 2009-04-02 10:14 pm UTC (link)
	The only good thing that came out of this was the above comment's wank :) (Reply to this)

(Anonymous)
2009-04-02 10:19 pm UTC (link)

For me, this simply confirmed a horrible suspicion that no matter how watertight I might try to make my plots, no matter how well-structured my narratives become . . . I would always be regarded in fan circles as the madcap purveyor of free-form gibberish.

How about instead of letting an article confirm this for you, you actually try to make your plots watertight and your narratives well-structured? You had All-Star Superman end with Superman having to randomly fly off and re-build the heart of the sun. After another sun attacks.

You had a completely unexplained flash-forward in Batman in which Batman's son sells his soul to the devil.

OF COURSE you are regarded in fan circles as they madcap purveyor of free-form gibberish. If you weren't, you would have a leg to stand on in that particular arguement. You are, you don't, give it up.

(Reply to this)

	pyrotwilight 2009-04-02 10:55 pm UTC (link)
	I want to hate Morrison. His crossovers can be god awful (see Final Crisis) or awesometastic (see Seven Soldiers). Or he can make fun of us as above, or be part of the reason Tomorrow Woman was made. I'm split. (Reply to this) (Thread)

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	stolisomancer 2009-04-03 07:28 am UTC (link)
	The moment I read Morrison's afterward, I knew S_D was going to have a lengthy comment thread on the subject, complete with a few different people finding new and interesting ways to miss his point. Interesting discussion. (Reply to this)

	randomly ceru 2009-04-03 11:05 am UTC (link)
	Archivists all over the world are flipping this piece the bird. What better answer to your frustration with being stereotyped than to invoke as many stereotypes as you can yourself? (Reply to this)

	unknownscribler 2009-04-05 06:24 am UTC (link)
	tl;dr (Reply to this)

moneyless_jew
2009-04-06 07:50 am UTC (link)

I don't see a point in any one of us being shocked, SHOCKED! that a writer has taken umbrage with the Internet when we gut Morrison (or Johns, or Bendis, etc) every time his name appears on the comm. It's far from the first time a writer's grumbled about the Internet. What's good for the goose, etc. And frankly I find everything Morrison has to say about Waid or himself, or us, to be fairly, brutally correct. I myself didn't know Waid had some of his more recent work in him. Most of the time, Grant seems unfailingly polite to fans; if you ask me, this is more him using an analogy and US getting butthurt over being called a Zone-O-Phone. I, personally, can live with it. I'm full up on self-righteous indignation over here.

There will always be a school of thought that says that if the characters are not behaving or acting as we saw them behave in X, then they can't possibly be doing such-and-so in Y, and therefore this must mean that [Morrison/Waid/Johns/etc] hates love and happiness and superheroes. Except I've seen these guys write frickin' love letters to superheroes and to the art form again and again. Just not always in a nerdcore-approved way that massages our nostalgia glands.

I'll take Morrison's bombastic overview of all of us (and himself) over DiDio's gladhanding and Joe Quesada's condescension. The odd thing is, even Joe for all his major mistakes has made Marvel a thousand times better than it was ten years ago. I never thought the company would be readable again, and it is, despite my bitching and my dislike of the way he dismisses certain issues. And even DiDio's regime has put out some good comics.

So there's no easy answer, no simple binary of who is good and right or who is bad and wrong, and there never was, not in creators versus readers, and not even between readers; for example, to many here on scans, Spoiler and Cassandra Cain are profoundly beloved, but I know just as many people who could not give the slightest shit about them. Every character is someone's favorite, and every character is not someone's favorite. So the dance goes on. Grant Morrison isn't commenting on anything that wasn't there between them and us ten years ago, or even twenty years ago in a different form and with different rules. There will always be a push and pull between creator and consumer. I would've thought we'd all gotten used to that fact by now, instead of screaming at Morrison for stating the obvious. It's not like anyone has any interest in changing the discourse.

(Reply to this)