InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Let's do this!"

mysteryfan (mysteryfan) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-11-06 09:52:00

Entry tags:

char: batman/bruce wayne, char: lois lane, char: robin/red robin/tim drake, char: superman/clark kent, creator: chris batista, creator: jack jadson, creator: len wein, creator: mick gray, title: superman/batman

Superman/Batman Annual #3
Composite Superman, Modern Age

Posted this on the old s_d, and Jelly_Ace has posted one page over here. Ran across the issue and was rereading. I really thought it was a very fun read, with fantastic, gorgeous art. I really like Chris Batista's work.

Story by Len Wein, pencils by Chris Batista, inks by Mick Gray and Jack Jadson.

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	sistermagpie 2009-11-06 05:34 pm UTC (link)
	This comic can be so awesomely strange in the best way. I love these two being awkward together. (Also I couldn't help but want to clue Bruce in that currently there are people in the Batcave...) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	yaseen101 2009-11-06 05:46 pm UTC (link)
	Actually, I can sort of understand Bruce being uncomfortable with people in the Bat-cave, aside from Tim, Dick and Alf whom he is used to, Superman doesn't usually come in to the cave much. It happens to me, I usually go into a fit of rage when my parents comes into my room suddenly announced, it drives me nuts, that or constant twitching till they leave. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sistermagpie 2009-11-06 05:57 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, I'm exactly the same way. I'm totally sympathetic to Bruce on this. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	shadowvalkyrie 2009-11-06 06:52 pm UTC (link)
	Same here! Territorial is my middle name. ":-/ (Reply to this) (Parent)

	yaseen101 2009-11-06 07:50 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, I like cranky and introverted Bruce. (Reply to this) (Parent)

schala_kid
2009-11-07 04:29 am UTC (link)

It's funny because Bruce does this to Clark whenever he wants, he just comes in and out of the Fortress unannounced and uses Clark's stuff. Of course Clark doesn't really care since he gave Bruce access codes to his place and the ability to control the Fortress' security, plus the AI and the robots obey him.

As for Bruce having Superman in the Batcave it always depends on the writers, some make Batman annoyed that he's there and others make him not care. Personally at this point in their relationship I don't think Bruce would care about him or Kara being there as long as they don't do it constantly.

But you're right it's very annoying having someone unannounced in your room, I hate it when my parents/brother/cousins go in and and create awkward moments because they won't leave and just watch me doing stuff or start asking inane questions.

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	mysteryfan 2009-11-07 04:42 am UTC (link)
	In Superman/Batman, both Bruce and Clark do seem to show up at the others place. But Kara? Because of the short Superman/Batman arc at the very beginning of the series? Nothing against Kara but she's not--Batman and Superman have years of history. Kara, in comparison, a few minutes, if that. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

schala_kid
2009-11-07 06:56 am UTC (link)

I disagree. They do have relationship, it's similar to how Dick goes to Clark when he can't talk to Bruce about things Kara does the same with Bruce when she can't talk to things about Clark (and she should do the same with Diana but that's another rant). Of course unlike Dick and Clark their relationship is a bit strange, Bruce has some affection for her but he is somewhat tough on her and likes to test her while Kara finds Bruce a bit creepy and weird but she still likes and trusts him enough to go to him for help.

Because of the short Superman/Batman arc at the very beginning of the series?

Well mainly because of the Supergirl series and one Infinite Holiday issue.

In Supergirl #9 she goes to Batman to sell him Kryptonian tech and tells him that she needs the money, Bruce obviously thinking she has money problems tells her that if she has any money problems that he and Diana would "set money aside" for her but she doesn't want hand me downs and wants to do business with him. Also at the time Kara was having problems with Kal (because she believed she was sent to kill him and was afraid she might actually do it) and Bruce concerned asks her why she's avoiding him but she doesn't want to talk about it. The whole thing ends with Bruce offering to give her an apartment and a place to stay in Metropolis in exchange for the tech and Kara giving him a peck in the cheek. From then on they build a relationship and in Joe Kelly's run it's mostly off panel stuff, but you can tell it grows because she drops in to the Batcave without complaints (well there's one from Tim who doesn't like her using the computer) and when she's in the hospital because of Powerboy Bruce finds out about it before Clark (Lois and Clark actually find out from Bruce that she's in there).

In the Infinite Holiday Special while she's trying to find a little girl who gave Superman a Christmas card asking him to find her dad, she goes to the Batcave to look for info and Alfred is with her (and with cookies). Alfred gives her advice about the situation and before she leaves she gives him a kiss and leaves a present for Bruce.

In Supergirl #23 He gives her a soundproof lead-lined present and when she opens it there's a message that say's "mistake" then Bruce calls her and lectures her about the fact that if someone bypasses the security he has in her apartment with a present that foils her powers that she should not open it and then tells her how she should not rely on said powers. Kara is slightly freaked out because it's a weird thing to do but the fact that he took his time to do it shows that he cares for her in a weird Batman way.

In Supergirl #30 She goes to him for guidance and tells him how she feels about losing Krypton. When Bruce asks her if she's talk to Clark about it, she tells him that he wouldn't understand because he grew up in Earth and did not see his parents die and then Bruce understands her and makes a comment about losing ones parents in a violent way (Bruce saw him parents being murdered while Kara saw Krypton explode with them, I mean it's not quite the same thing but it is a similar experience).

Can't remember the issue no. but when Kara loses her powers because of Reactron's gold kryptonite and while she's falling she has a flashback of being with Batman in his cave, showing her his batarangs gadgets while he explained to her how important it was that she did not rely on her powers and how she should improvise what she had with her. Kara then uses her cape to land safely and grabs a pole that she finds and proceeds to beat the shit out of Reactron. She then tells him not to underestimate her and that she has trained with Batman and the Amazons and while she's powerless she's not defenseless.

Their relationship is mostly subtle, behind the scenes and a few moments here and there but I can assure you that it has been longer than a few minutes.

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	mysteryfan 2009-11-07 01:23 pm UTC (link)
	Oh. I don't read Supergirl. I read Batman and Detective and a few other Batman titles, and the relationship you're describing isn't present in Batman's own books. (Reply to this) (Parent)

yaseen101
2009-11-07 05:44 am UTC (link)

Well, Bruce is introverted to the extreme and Clark is extroverted, so Clark is really not going to have problems with Bruce being there plus Bruce seem to only express his uncomfortableness in his head most of the time.

"But you're right it's very annoying having someone unannounced in your room, I hate it when my parents/brother/cousins go in and and create awkward moments because they won't leave and just watch me doing stuff or start asking inane questions."

Yeah, my parents comes in so suddenly. Mom relishes the fact that the lock is broken and she can open and close the door anytime she pleases. Usually, they come in for inane purposes like spare changes of clothes they keep in my room for some reason or to borrow my deodorant or cologne (when they are running out of the stuff) and most of the time won't leave until I tell them to. My younger sister is much worse, she comes in and demands for me to get up from my throne so she can play on my comp, last week she broke my head phones and I can't watch any cartoons because of no sound.

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schala_kid
2009-11-07 07:09 am UTC (link)

Oh yeah I know Clark is really, really chill about Bruce that he even doesn't mind if he were to sneak in his room while he's asleep, but I just find it funny that Bruce while being a person who is really private about his stuff tends to invade other people's privacy. I think the only time Clark got mad at him is when he was spying on him and Lois with his binoculars but that's it.

Usually, they come in for inane purposes like spare changes of clothes they keep in my room for some reason or to borrow my deodorant or cologne (when they are running out of the stuff) and most of the time won't leave until I tell them to.

Oh yeah I can't tell my mom to leave or she'll get mad at me for like a week and will take everything against me or make it about how I need to get a good job or whatever I did wrong in that day. Oh and it sucks what your younger sister did, I don't have younger siblings but I do have younger cousins and if I don't watch their hands they can do just about everything (last time they were here I found bubblegum plastered on the side of CPU).

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	yaseen101 2009-11-07 08:06 pm UTC (link)
	My moms a wierd case, like yours if I ever make a mistake she'll call me out on it and gives me a laundry list of each and every time I ever messed up, however, she took my worst/biggest fuck-ups quite well and she never mentions those (like the time I swore in front of the teacher). (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mysteryfan 2009-11-06 07:02 pm UTC (link)
	I enjoy them being awkward too. This title can be so much cracky fun. (I know! I really, really hope Babs and Steph get out of there and into their own place like, yesterday.) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	parsimonia 2009-11-07 02:39 am UTC (link)
	In the summer I asked Didio about making Oracle more prominent, and he said that she'd be setting up shop in the Batcave, as though that were a promotion. =/ (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

mysteryfan
2009-11-07 03:00 am UTC (link)

Aargh!

That is so incredibly depressing!

That's how they make Oracle more prominent? Don't give her her own base of operations? That seems to me like a major need that Babs would certainly understand and find important. Why can't it be about the basic need of a character's base of ops instead of about: Oh! The Batcave is awesome! And look, Babs is using it!

How much do you want to bet that the big confrontation between Babs and Dick is Dick discovering she and Steph have moved into the Batcave?

Isn't it supposed to be empty now? And how come the greatest computer expert DC has is using Bruce's computer instead of her own? She could hack into his from an old frozen orange juice can and a piece of string, but using the cave feels like they're trying to add substance that belongs to somebody else instead of going for her own strength.

I also think it's disrespectful to Bruce. I don't think he'd like Babs and Steph making themselves at home and I hate that they're writing her as okay with it. I doubt DC has thought that far ahead, other than the possibility of cool!confrontation, but it's not a very strong choice for Babs.

Will she go ahead and move into Wayne Manor next?

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parsimonia
2009-11-07 03:12 am UTC (link)

And how come the greatest computer expert DC has is using Bruce's computer instead of her own?

Because apparently she's had no money since before they moved to Platinum Flats and then there was the blowing up of her Clocktower Systems business/base of operations. (Which is crap, because really, there is no way that someone with Babs's internet savvy and technical capabilities can't have created some kind of user-generated content site that rakes in millions. I like to joke that she and Catwoman collaborate on a LOLcat site.)

Which is why Oracle: the Cure had her living in a crappy apartment that didn't even have a properly accessible bathroom.

Will she go ahead and move into Wayne Manor next?

See, that's the weirdest part about the whole thing. Dick temporarily relocating out of Wayne Manor makes some sense (I would imagine it's arguably part of grieving, in that every inch of the place is a reminder that Bruce is dead). But as much as Babs would be able to feel at home, chilling in front of the Batcomputer, it is still a little weird. Especially given that we have yet to see her react at all to Bruce's death, which I also find profoundly irritating. It's as if they had no friendship at all.

It also seems a little pointless, given that she will eventually leave when Bruce comes back. (And it also interferes with Dick's plans to empty the place entirely. There seems to be no acknowledgement of her setting up camp there anywhere outside of Batgirl.)

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mysteryfan
2009-11-07 03:51 am UTC (link)

I heard about the losing of all her money. But it would be much cooler if she worked on through that without using the Batcomputer. She needs a computer, I get. I don't see why Babs couldn't rig up something and hack into what she needs.

So far, judging from the BG story, she needs a computer to look at maps and talk to Steph. I think she ought to be able to do that--and it would be way cooler for her to do that--from like a crappy computer and free internet access at a coffee shop.

We sure haven't seen her react at all to Bruce's death and hasn't she even blown off Dick for wanting to talk to her about it?

But as much as Babs would be able to feel at home, chilling in front of the Batcomputer, it is still a little weird.

I think it's *very* weird. Oracle's never chilled in front of Bruce's computer, has she? Nor would she appreciate someone chilling in front of hers. She's a very private person and so is Bruce. She's not welcome to do that any more than he'd be welcome to come into the Clocktower and make it his and his new person's base. He wouldn't. He's too independent.

But she's not being written as independent.

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parsimonia
2009-11-07 05:14 am UTC (link)

We sure haven't seen her react at all to Bruce's death and hasn't she even blown off Dick for wanting to talk to her about it?

In the Oracle mini-series, Dick's message did touch on his being upset about Bruce, but it seemed to be mostly because Babs was being a hermit and not talking to anyone so he was worried about her. (Which, is pretty jerky to Dick, even if she wasn't also grieving. It's understandable to sometimes forget to stay in touch with friends, but when the friend's father fucking dies, you get the hell in touch, especially if you knew him and were friends with him.)

She's a very private person and so is Bruce. She's not welcome to do that any more than he'd be welcome to come into the Clocktower and make it his and his new person's base. He wouldn't. He's too independent.

This is true, although she has sometimes worked in the Batcave when working together with the bats on a case, I believe. I do feel like the batcave, while being Bruce's home office at its roots, has also functioned a little like the family room or something. In that, lots of people have met and worked there.

So there is some argument for it, but I do think Babs likes her creature comforts more than Bruce. She'd want to be working out of her home where she can just roll to the kitchen or go have a power nap or something. Bruce at least had his home upstairs and had Alfred bringing him food and whatnot. With Babs now, she's just sitting in a cave. Not as comfortable.

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sistermagpie
2009-11-07 03:18 pm UTC (link)

It really is silly--they just had a story about the Batcave being cleared out for security reasons. The idea of Babs wheeling herself over there to sit in a cave while talking to Stephanie makes her look foolish. According to the other comics the computers either shouldn't be there or shouldn't work. Plus it implies that they're setting up Babs and Steph working in secret but using Batman's stuff probably just so that Dick can get angry about it and they can be self-righteous in return and we can have conflict.

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parsimonia
2009-11-10 01:49 am UTC (link)

Yep, yep.

I hate that lately the interpersonal drama that's come up is so silly. (Like Jason going batshit in BftC, Cass and Dick butting heads in her mini-series and Outsiders, this

It comes off as rather childish, quite frankly. There's so much complexity to all the interrelationships in the bat-family, so there's really no excuse for pulling this oversimplified melodrama crap. Makes it hard to defend against the accusation that superhero comics are immature.

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	mysteryfan 2009-11-07 03:58 am UTC (link)
	Oh, and I also think that Dick relocating out of the Mansion to the Penthouse is partly just because it's a cool, new move. Fresh start and all and it caught GM's fancy. Hasn't happened since like, 1970. Time to do it again. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	parsimonia 2009-11-07 05:15 am UTC (link)
	LOL, it's true. Now if only we could convince the artists to start drawing Dick in those lovely 70s disco suits, I'd be happier. Today's artists need to take lessons from Jim Aparo. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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