InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "yo so tambien"

superfan1 (superfan1) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-31 02:58:00

Entry tags:

char: catwoman/selina kyle, char: harley quinn/harleen quinzel, char: poison ivy/pamela isley, creator: guillem march, creator: paul dini, publisher: dc comics, title: gotham city sirens

Gotham City Sirens #5
.

It wasn't really the joker after all,but a disgruntled ex side-kick with a grudge. Disguising and impersonating the Clown Prince.

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	aaron_bourque 2009-10-31 08:38 am UTC (link)
	That's a good point, actually, considering how plant-like she's become, why would she need to breathe through a normal human respiratory system? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	icon_uk 2009-10-31 10:52 am UTC (link)
	The obvious answer is "because she's not plant-like enough to NOT need lungs". (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	earthelemental 2009-10-31 11:59 am UTC (link)
	She doesn't want to get flushed down the Vertigo toilet like the big-shots (Swamp Thing and Black Orchid) did. So she'll repeat the same insane mistakes and have the same lame weaknesses over and over again, if that's what it takes to win her a spot in Gotham City Sirens. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	iwfan53 2009-10-31 01:43 pm UTC (link)
	Is needing to breath air, even if you can also breath it in along with just about any toxin known to man really that "lame" a weakness? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	aaron_bourque 2009-10-31 07:01 pm UTC (link)
	Ever see Unbreakable? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

iwfan53
2009-10-31 07:13 pm UTC (link)

While I may be getting off track but doesn't it only count as a lame weakness if you've got superpowers but can be taken out by something that wouldn't hurt your average everyday human being? Needing to breath is something we all have, and Ivy's onestep up from us in that regard since she's got a body which is much better at filtering out toxins than our own ones are.

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earthelemental
2009-10-31 09:32 pm UTC (link)

But as a developing "failed" plant elemental, it would sense that she would eventually also gain immunity to asphyxiation, such as breathing through any part of her body to escape air deprivation, storing reserves of both oxygen and carbon dioxide in her body (as a plant/human hybrid she can use both), and becoming amphibious whenever she's submerged and swimming underwater.

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	rdfox 2009-10-31 11:47 pm UTC (link)
	I believe the current status quo there is that Ivy breathes CO2 and exhales oxygen, like a plant, but that she can only breathe through her lungs still. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	espanolbot 2009-10-31 08:51 am UTC (link)
	The idea of the Joker doing something nice for Harley is kind of weird, but also kind of sweet, despite him getting embarassed by it. :) (Reply to this)

	tahngarth 2009-10-31 08:53 am UTC (link)
	Wow. The original Gaggy story is probably one of the low points of the entire Bat mythos, but somehow he doesn't seem so bad here. :) (Reply to this)

	lots42 2009-10-31 09:21 am UTC (link)
	Harley is so cute. Insane, but cute. (Reply to this)

thehefner
2009-10-31 10:07 am UTC (link)

While I don't think this is a great storyline by any stretch, I think Dini pulled off the whole "bring back an obscure-as-hell forgotten Silver Age character/concept" better than Grant Morrison has, by and large.

When Morrison does it, it's almost as if he expects to you already be familiar with stuff like Zurr-En-Arrh, or to make you do research. When you introduce a new element into your work, you can't just expect the reader to know what it's supposed to mean.

But Dini pulls it off better in two steps. First (in the page that wasn't scanned here), the character is revealed in such a way that says to the reader, "Hey, this is important! Bum-bum-BUM!" And then immediately after, we have Selina saying, "Never heard of you," thus becoming the voice of the reader who is likely totally unfamiliar with the character, which opens the door to a quick explanation of backstory, and bada-bing bada-boom, everybody's up to speed in the course of one single panel (ideally; the risk here is getting too much exposition).

Whereas with Morrison, you need to either be a big flaming nerd who knows obscure stuff so the stuff can have any meaning, or you need to pick up a copy of BATMAN: THE BLACK CASEBOOK which collects all those obscure stories to catch you up to speed. Which I just find smug and elitist on Morrison's part, not to mention poor storytelling. Unless, of course, you like the puzzle of finding all those obscure stories, in which case god bless ya.

Again, not saying the above is brilliant or anything. Just saying if you're gonna do it, that's how it's done.

And for the record, the only way I was familiar with Gaggy at all was from this cover, which was reprinted in the original GREATEST JOKER STORIES EVER TOLD trade paperback:

title or description

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	sistermagpie 2009-10-31 08:22 pm UTC (link)
	Good point. I tend to like this way of doing it too. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mysteryfan 2009-10-31 10:46 pm UTC (link)
	And also, does knowing--in GM's case--the original story really do anything to the plot, really? Or does it just bring in some old element. I'm thinking of like Zurr-En-Arrh. For me, knowing the original story didn't make the its inclusion improve the most recent "Batman goes crazy" story itself. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	uadlika 2009-11-01 12:31 am UTC (link)
	Until I read theHefner's comment I had no idea that Zurr-En-Arrh was a recycled element. Maybe if I knew the background, I would find the RIP storyline better. Or not. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

aaron_bourque
2009-11-01 07:16 am UTC (link)

Not really; the Zurr-En-Arrh element was originally an alien fanboying over Batman. Seriously, he picked up transmissions somehow from Earth and was modeling his own "crime fighting" on Batman, only using Zurr-En-Arrh technology . . . and a brightly colored costume. It doesn't add anything to the modern story, really, knowing what it's actually about. But, interestingly, it doesn't subtract anything, either. I felt that thehefner's complaint about Morrison's use of long-forgotten Silver Age (and Golden Age) material is unfair, because generally, Morrison changed the older stuff significantly, summarizing (or attempting to summarize) for the audience what was needed, whereas Dini is actually using stuff from ages past, modernizing without really deconstructing.

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batcookies
2009-11-04 09:46 pm UTC (link)

It depends on what kind of reader you are.

If you're the sort of person that can enjoy a story even when you don't get half the allusions/references the writer is making, more power to you. And if you're the sort of person that can't even tell the writer is doing that, and don't mind scenes where half the point is a callback to some esoteric piece you're unaware of,... hey, cool.

But if you're like me, you can tell when Morrison is making references that are going over your head, and it's detrimental to enjoying the story.

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mysteryfan
2009-11-01 02:55 pm UTC (link)

I've read it (1958 story) and for me, it didn't. I think it's an interesting gimmick to try to shove a bunch of elements from a character's past 70 years into the last five of current continuity, but I don't think it improves the story itself.

And I wonder if GM will try that with other characters, like Superman and Wonder Woman, who I understand he's going to write: If everything that ever happened in WW or Superman's 70 plus years of comics DID happen. Or if only Batman will get that treatment.

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	timgueguen 2009-11-01 06:23 am UTC (link)
	Batman looks like he's wearing lipstick on that cover. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	taggerung301 2009-10-31 12:06 pm UTC (link)
	so wait, does that mean that the joker who showed up earlier wasn't really Mr. J? im still hoping (somewhat foolishly) that he's secretly Red Hood (Reply to this) (Thread)

	manofbats 2009-10-31 01:39 pm UTC (link)
	It was a robot bomb. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	thandrak 2009-10-31 12:51 pm UTC (link)
	Wow! Man, Gaggy. That takes me back. Mr. J sure pulled a boner when he let that dwarf go. Nice work on Dini. Character's changed, but I can see it, and it all makes sense. Plus, if he survives, we now have someone who might pull the old-style Joker bad gag comedy crimes. Bonus! (Reply to this)

	iwfan53 2009-10-31 01:42 pm UTC (link)
	You know for a guy who seems to have done a lot of prep work, he sure forgot the obvious weapon of "weed killer spray" for use against Ivy, or does that not work? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	earthelemental 2009-10-31 09:02 pm UTC (link)
	Yes. Caustic weed killer spray would harm Poison Ivy. (Reply to this) (Parent)

retro_nouveau
2009-10-31 02:18 pm UTC (link)

Quick, Harley - Bud and Lou are your babies too. Tell 'em to sit!

Heh - how many units are in a box of "fake doo"? And always make sure "this end up" with chattering teeth, they're very delicate. XD

Definitely sweet of Mr. J to take Harley out for a spin.

Pam, you're getting a little overconfident. Third time's the charm. Remember, you can secrete acid...

Gaggy's got an appropriate name, he can't pull off that costume at all. Um, I mean, I hope he keeps it on. No, wait -- oh, skip it, just get him a trenchcoat! ~~Where are Larry and Curly?~~

(Reply to this)

	damar148 2009-10-31 02:22 pm UTC (link)
	Why do Pam and Selina look suprised/horrified at Joker shooting people for insulting him? Normally he doesn't even need a reason or even a excuse. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	taggerung301 2009-10-31 02:43 pm UTC (link)
	It is kind of strange that Ivy looks horrified seeing as though she feeds people to large carniverous plants occassionally (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	janegray 2009-11-02 11:33 pm UTC (link)
	I like to think that story never happened. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	I thought so too roguefankc 2009-10-31 05:30 pm UTC (link)
	Seeing Ivy and Selina horrified that Joker would shoot people for laughing at his car seemed a bit OOC. If joker kills someone, it's just the next hour (I'd normally say "Tuesday", but his body count's too high) If anything I was expecting them to respond with "He only just shot them?" (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mullon 2009-10-31 04:23 pm UTC (link)
	I don't get why Harley would feel bad about Joker shooting those punks. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	manofbats 2009-10-31 07:28 pm UTC (link)
	Harley isn't completely evil. She's still got a good side. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	earthelemental 2009-11-01 12:35 am UTC (link)
	Meaning she only murders thugs and henchmen. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	benicio127 2009-11-02 04:07 am UTC (link)
	I'm not sure if she felt bad about him shooting the henchmen or him being laughed at. I would think, coming from Harley, it would be the latter, tbh. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jarodrussell 2009-10-31 04:54 pm UTC (link)
	I'd like Gaggy more if his sidekick's name was Bindy. (Reply to this)

	(Anonymous) 2009-10-31 07:46 pm UTC (link)
	It's not shocking that Joker shot someone. I think Selina and Ivy are surprised that feels bad about it. (Reply to this)

	ex_stig213 2009-11-01 03:56 am UTC (link)
	To avoid tiring Confrontation & Argument which would arise if I fully expressed how much I don't like this writing, I'll just mention that careful scientific study has revealed that Hyenas are in fact much more closely related to Cats than Dogs. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	iwfan53 2009-11-01 04:09 am UTC (link)
	Really you need a scientific study to know that? I know it because of an episode of The Batman where Joker tried to sick a pair of albino Hyenas on Catwoman and she manages to charm the proverbial pants off of them... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	manofbats 2009-11-02 12:47 am UTC (link)
	We all know careful scientific studies should be read before writing comics. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	chipsnopotatoes 2009-11-02 02:22 am UTC (link)
	you would not get any confrontation and argument from me. So far it's been one long lingering ride, sometimes a little fun but I'm failing to see where all this is heading. I really hope this gets better soon. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ex_stig213 2009-11-02 09:54 am UTC (link)
	I find it very akin to Torchwood - more like a kid playing with their favourite toys than an intelligent plot with interesting characters. It's a poor replacement for the standard set by Simone's Birds of Prey, and unless the creative team gets an overhaul I can't see it getting any better. (Reply to this) (Parent)

psychop_rex
2009-11-01 05:51 am UTC (link)

Yowza! The Jokermobile ! Gaggy the dwarf! Fast-hardening plastic bubbles! Possibly other things that I can't read because my computer messes up the middle two pages! This is a breath of old-fashioned fresh air! (uh, except for that last part.)
One thing that bugs me a bit, though, is the fact that the Joker's embarrassed about the Jokermobile. He doesn't seem like the type to be embarrassed about ANYTHING, let alone a goofy car. Besides, the Jokermobile may be goofy, but it's COOL goofy! It's a car with a Joker face! And a bubble roof! How can you not love that?

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	manofbats 2009-11-02 12:48 am UTC (link)
	Well obviously Harley was using polite language. He wasn't so much embarrassed as he was completely pissed off. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-11-02 01:41 am UTC (link)
	Embarrassed, ashamed, mad, whatever you want to call it - the Joker still doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who'd have a problem with stuff from his early career. He's egotistical enough, in fact, that it'd probably be the exact opposite - he'd be all 'If I came up with it, it MUST be good!' (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	manofbats 2009-11-02 01:49 am UTC (link)
	So the Joker doesn't strike you as the kind of guy who would get mad at a bunch of average punks laughing at him? Sooo... is this your first Joker story ever? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-11-02 04:56 am UTC (link)
	No, no, no - you misunderstand me. I mean that he's not the kind of guy who would be reluctant to bring the Jokermobile out of mothballs in the first place. He wouldn't have a problem with his older stuff simply because it's goofy. (Reply to this) (Parent)