InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "This. Is. MAAARTHAAAA!"

Doop (xdoop) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-22 02:08:00

Entry tags:

char: damon matthews, char: manhunter/kate spencer, char: obsidian/todd rice, creator: jeremy haun, creator: marc andreyko, title: streets of gotham

An update on Todd and Damon's love life

Damon and Kate are relaxing in a pool when Ramsey splashes them with a cannonball.

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	thebigapricot 2009-10-22 10:57 am UTC (link)
	But he is gay, how can that be OOC for him? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	yaseen101 2009-10-22 11:38 am UTC (link)
	I think that he means that given Todd's history of being abused by a man and that Scott wasn't there for him that it's strange he would turn gay. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	thebigapricot 2009-10-22 12:22 pm UTC (link)
	But people don't "turn" gay. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

jaybee3
2009-10-22 01:46 pm UTC (link)

He has dated women though so I always thought he might be bi?

Anyway, more interesting to me (and I don't believe this has ever been brought up) is what happened to Todd's devout Catholicism which was every-so-often brought up in Infinity Inc? He would even pray the rosary to get over his adopted father's abuse. It would be easy to say he dropped being Catholic when he came out because the two are irreconcilable but that shouldn't necessarily be the case (I can think of the GLTB Catholic group, Dignity, off the top of my head) and he does hang out with a very devout open-minded Catholic in Doc Midnite.

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	interrobamf 2009-10-22 05:01 pm UTC (link)
	He has dated women though so I always thought he might be bi? Behavior does not directly correlate to mental state. I've dated and kissed women. That does not stop me from being homosexual. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	yaseen101 2009-10-22 02:15 pm UTC (link)
	Okay, bad choice of phrasing on my part, how about 'choose' instead. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	nevermore999 2009-10-22 02:21 pm UTC (link)
	...they don't choose it either. Anymore than you "chose" to be straight. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jaybee3 2009-10-22 02:23 pm UTC (link)
	I agree...but there are exceptions. Anne Heche, anyone? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	xdoop 2009-10-22 03:40 pm UTC (link)
	She's stated that she's bisexual, and that she didn't turn straight. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	yaseen101 2009-10-22 02:28 pm UTC (link)
	Okay then what is it? I'm a moron when it comes to certain things. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	toasty_fresh 2009-10-22 04:42 pm UTC (link)
	It's like being a brunette or having freckles. It's just something you are, something you're born as, like being born a girl or a boy. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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greenmask, 2009-10-22 11:38 pm UTC

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toasty_fresh, 2009-10-23 01:12 am UTC

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yaseen101, 2009-10-23 03:20 am UTC

	lencannon 2009-10-22 04:36 pm UTC (link)
	I've seen some good stuff in the past, but THIS was an expert troll. No joke. My hats off to you. Good set up, perfect delivery. You got us good. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	stillawkward 2009-10-23 01:06 am UTC (link)
	Agreed. Classic light-the-fuse-and-run. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	yaseen101 2009-10-23 03:19 am UTC (link)
	WHAT? I wasn't even trying to be one. (Reply to this) (Parent)

daningram
2009-10-22 03:03 pm UTC (link)

Agreed, though it functionally happens in comic books (in large part to a ban on gays for decades).

Honestly, I just don't buy the writer's justification for turning Todd gay, due to the fact it was based on usual superhero cliches (women troubles) and them willfully not getting a 90s JLA plotline (where Todd confesses his love for Al, but plainly states it's not sexual).

And honestly with Todd, it just seems too damn easy. This guy's supposed to be the angst machine and he turns over a new sexuality leaf seemlessly? Cop. Out.

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	bluefall 2009-10-22 04:38 pm UTC (link)
	"Seamlessly"? "Too damn easy"? Did you read JLA/JLI? Seriously, that was an emo clusterfuck of epic proportions. Todd actually tried to commit slow unconscious suicide by metapower, and he was about ready to choke Nuklon for trying to make him fess up to how he felt. If that's easy, I don't want to know what you'd consider hard. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	daningram 2009-10-22 05:00 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, except he wasn't gay in that series. The writer even made a point of expressly stating that. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bluefall 2009-10-22 05:02 pm UTC (link)
	Um, yeah he was. What he said was "ZOMG WHY DO YOU NEED TO LABEL ME." That's not "no, I'm not gay." That is, in fact, exactly the opposite. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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daningram, 2009-10-22 05:03 pm UTC

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bluefall, 2009-10-22 05:06 pm UTC

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bluefall, 2009-10-22 05:08 pm UTC

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daningram, 2009-10-22 05:23 pm UTC

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bluefall, 2009-10-22 05:42 pm UTC

jaybee3
2009-10-22 04:43 pm UTC (link)

I felt that too when writers were making him all-out homosexual. I can see it in his character but it also ignores the fact that he dated several women in the past. Renee Montoya too originally was straight and dated men before Rucka outed her (so to speak) which makes her relationship with Kate in 52 problematic continuity-wise because they had supposedly been in love 10 years or so ago (when Renee was new on the force age-wise) and yet that was the period when canonically she was dating men (of course the Kate Kane in 52 also bares little resemblance to the one Rucka's now writing but that's another story).

I think a lot of it has to do with putting people in easy categories - either "gay" or "straight". How many bi-sexual characters are there in the Big 2? Mikaal/Starman who is an alien (and to whom human sexuality is different than his conception of it) and Daken/Dark Wolvie (who is a murderous scary douchebag) are the only ones I can think of? Anyone else and if not, why not?

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	toasty_fresh 2009-10-22 04:51 pm UTC (link)
	I can see it in his character but it also ignores the fact that he dated several women in the past. Well, many gay people date the opposite sex before coming out, so it could be attributed to that, I suppose. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jaybee3 2009-10-22 05:28 pm UTC (link)
	Yes, I know. Which is why in the end it's not too big a deal(in Todd's case or in Renee's). Now if we had a Tony Stark-ish character whose overt heterosexuality was a major part of the character suddenly switch teams that would be a sign of bad writing and bad characterization. (Reply to this) (Parent)

xdoop
2009-10-22 05:43 pm UTC (link)

Renee Montoya too originally was straight and dated men before Rucka outed her (so to speak) which makes her relationship with Kate in 52 problematic continuity-wise because they had supposedly been in love 10 years or so ago (when Renee was new on the force age-wise) and yet that was the period when canonically she was dating men (of course the Kate Kane in 52 also bares little resemblance to the one Rucka's now writing but that's another story).

If Renee was still in the closet, I don't see how having a boyfriend or two contradicts what Rucka later established.

Also, it's Rucka who's done the most with her character, ever since he started writing her back in Spring 1999 with Batman Chronicles #16.

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	kingrockwell 2009-10-22 10:48 pm UTC (link)
	Well, #14 if you want to get technical. (Reply to this) (Parent)

kenn_el
2009-10-22 11:25 pm UTC (link)

He didn't date any women successfully, though. At least one tried to kill him. Sadly, we never really saw any process whereby he came to terms with his sexuality. We got crazy Todd in JL, Dark Todd in JSA, and then suddenly Happy Homo Todd in Manhunter (where the irony of the title wasn't even acknowledged!), with no real "Aha!" moment. Todd's got a LOT of baggage on top of his sexuality. He needs his own series.
There's also the Todd on that other Earth that Power Girl visited. I want someone to write those adventures!

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	glitterandlube 2009-11-01 04:43 am UTC (link)
	.... I read all of those old issues, and it comes across very clearly that if it wasn't for the horrible effort/out-right ban on gay characters - todd would have been gay. A lot of gay people date people of the same gender until they come to terms with being gay or because they're hiding, or it's expected. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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