InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "It'll warm up."

galateus (galateus) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-11 16:50:00

Entry tags:

char: batgirl/oracle/barbara gordon, char: black canary/dinah lance, creator: butch guice, creator: chuck dixon, creator: gail simone

About Babs/Dinah and Gail Simone

Funny question: On a TV Tropes example page most relevant to our interests, someone wrote that Gail Simone 'encourages' femmeslash. What interview was that?

Relatedly, a moment from Birds of Prey 21. You know the one.

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	darkknightjrk 2009-10-11 11:59 pm UTC (link)
	...Please don't tell me he's a phobe. It would make me really sad. :( (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bluefall 2009-10-12 12:02 am UTC (link)
	Oh, don't worry, I'm sure some of his best friends are gay. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	galateus 2009-10-12 12:38 am UTC (link)
	Oh, BURN. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	scottyquick 2009-10-12 12:56 am UTC (link)
	No, no, it was his wife's brother. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	thebigapricot 2009-10-12 01:08 am UTC (link)
	Dixon? It was his aunt who was gay. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	scottyquick 2009-10-12 01:25 am UTC (link)
	It was both! Except "cousin" instead of "brother" . (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

bluefall
2009-10-12 01:52 am UTC (link)

Haha. My favorite thing is that, despite how blatantly Bingo-card it is, at the very least, the "I have friends who" defense at least implies some agency in the person using it. "I have family who," what does that mean? You don't get to pick your family, if they have quirks that freak you out you just have to deal with it.

Did anyone call him on Steph's pregnancy later in the thread?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	scottyquick 2009-10-12 02:01 am UTC (link)
	Nope, but Dazzler called him on the bullshit that is plausible deniability as queer=good queer character. Gilda later called him on his unfair comparisons, but deleted it because she didn't want to cause a bigger shitstorm. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bluefall 2009-10-12 02:23 am UTC (link)
	Shame, I really want to know how he'd explain it. That said, I cannot hate on Dixon too badly, because he gave us Tim and Babs/Dinah, and regardless of how accidental that was, it was still a tremendous service for which I am rather indebted. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

scottyquick
2009-10-12 02:43 am UTC (link)

Yeah, I feel sort of weird towards him. OTOH, whenever I think of my favorite comic characters, he's pretty much responsible for me loving them (He saved Babs and Dinah, he invented Tim and Steph, he developed Connor like hell, he gave us the only tolerable post-Gabrych Cass) ... but when he fucks a character up, oh boy does he fuck up (see Helena, Bruce, Nightwing Year One [GODDAMNIT THAT'S NOT HOW YOU DO A YEAR ONE]), and he's kind of a dick.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ladymirth 2009-10-12 05:55 pm UTC (link)
	To be fair, Helena got shafted by everybody before Simone took her under her wing. What didn't you like about NW:Y1? I loved it, personally. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

scottyquick
2009-10-12 06:00 pm UTC (link)

Well, Greg Rucka and Devin Grayson both wrote Helena quite well, and if we're throwing in qualifies, Sarah Byam didn't do *too* badly.

I thought it was okay, until we get to the part where it's Dick and Jason vs KILLER CROC! Can they handle it? Will they win?! OH YES TH-oh, wait, it's Babs, she'll help save the day. It should have been just Dick and Jason. Hell, it should've been just Dick. That's not how Year Ones work, the hero gets to save the day by themselves, not with random new help.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ladymirth 2009-10-12 06:03 pm UTC (link)
	I thought it was to establish the new dynamic between the three of them. I think it was the only time we ever got to see all three of them working together, for which I treasure it. Jason Todd hasn't run across Babs again after he was resurrected, has he? Does he even know she's Oracle? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

runespoor7
2009-10-12 09:34 pm UTC (link)

Oh, no, Jason and Babs meeting would make sense. And also she's a girl, she doesn't count.

I think it's because everyone realizes that Babs vs Jason would end with Jason looking extremely stupid or extremely bad, or both. And if the meeting went at all in character, extremely pwned. It's a little hard to go all 'but he didn't avenge meeeee' to, well, Babs. I read a fic once where Jason told either Dick or Bruce, I don't remember, that he hadn't gone to see Babs because even he wasn't enough of a jerk to brag about getting a second chance at life to her.

He probably knows she's Oracle. He's got good info, after all.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	galateus 2009-10-12 02:41 am UTC (link)
	Gilda's post was reposted though. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ladymirth 2009-10-12 06:05 pm UTC (link)
	Gilda Dent? What? What's the context of the conversation? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	galateus 2009-10-12 07:14 pm UTC (link)
	I didn't read everything, but her original post was on this page; it was a follow up to her questions on the two pages before that with Gail and Dixon (and probably even earlier in the thread). (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	ladymirth 2009-10-13 02:47 am UTC (link)
	That's actually a rather awesome and insightful thread. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	misterfedex 2009-10-12 03:44 am UTC (link)
	I love that icon. Can I has it? If I credit? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bluefall 2009-10-12 05:24 am UTC (link)
	As the author of the icon, thank you and feel free. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ladymirth 2009-10-12 05:53 pm UTC (link)
	No no, he's not homophobic no, he just thinks that homosexuality is a kink that kids shouldn't be exposed to. Conservatard logic, ladies and gents. *facepalm (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bariman1987 2009-10-13 12:07 pm UTC (link)
	homosexuality is a kink that kids shouldn't be exposed to "Yes, we shouldn't have homosexuals in a comic book where people dress up in skin-tight leather, latex, and rubber and beat the crap out of each other repeatedly." (Reply to this) (Parent)

gailsimone
2009-10-13 01:02 pm UTC (link)

Some of the stuff on Chuck Dixon's message board just drives me batshit. I just read a thread about gays in the military that is infuriating. It wasn't started by Chuck, I hasten to add.

HOWEVER, I don't think Chuck is homophobic and he definitely does NOT put his political views on his characters, but rather is very respectful of what their histories have been. I think he writes far better and more competent women than many of the big names that are supposedly so great with female characterization (even though all their women are the same). Chuck's Black Canary was tough and fun, his Oracle was smart and determined, and the list goes on. He doesn't get enough credit for his female portrayals, in my opinion. I can read a LOT of his Birds of Prey over some of the much more acclaimed dreary, droopy female heroes out there right now.

I disagree with Chuck on almost everything political, but he's absolutely a play-fair writer, and I admire that a lot. A very nice guy, to boot.

If I were going by his superhero comics, I doubt I would be able to discern Chuck Dixon's political views at all.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	darkknightjrk 2009-10-13 03:35 pm UTC (link)
	Okay, first off--HOLY SHIT GAIL SIMONE JUST REPLIED TO ME. :O Second, I get what you mean. :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

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