InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "This man has no neck."

galateus (galateus) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-10-11 16:50:00

Entry tags:

char: batgirl/oracle/barbara gordon, char: black canary/dinah lance, creator: butch guice, creator: chuck dixon, creator: gail simone

About Babs/Dinah and Gail Simone

Funny question: On a TV Tropes example page most relevant to our interests, someone wrote that Gail Simone 'encourages' femmeslash. What interview was that?

Relatedly, a moment from Birds of Prey 21. You know the one.

(Post a new comment)

	bluefall 2009-10-11 09:02 pm UTC (link)
	I don't know about interviews, but back at the old S_D she tended to egg us on about the Babs/Dinah stuff in the comments from time to time, and implied on at least one occasion that a bit of subtext was entirely intentional. (Reply to this)

	scottyquick 2009-10-11 09:07 pm UTC (link)
	See Bluefall's icon, where Dinah saves Babs solely through the power of HER LOVE FOR HER. (Reply to this)

	stolisomancer 2009-10-11 09:12 pm UTC (link)
	I remember talking about a theoretical scene where Barbara runs in and interrupts Ollie and Dinah's wedding like the last scene in The Graduate, and Simone posted to wish such a thing were possible. I believe it was part of that one large post concerning someone or another questioning whether she was actually Gail Simone or not. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	thosefew 2009-10-12 07:18 am UTC (link)
	Barbara "runs" in? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	queenanthai 2009-10-11 09:36 pm UTC (link)
	WHY DID YOU LINK TO TV TROPES I FORGOT TO TIE OFF A ROPE AND NOW I'M DROWNING (Reply to this) (Thread)

	sianmink 2009-10-12 12:43 am UTC (link)
	THEY HAVE A TROPE FOR THAT (Reply to this) (Parent)

	yaseen101 2009-10-12 12:58 am UTC (link)
	YOU TOO...? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	misterfedex 2009-10-12 03:43 am UTC (link)
	I admit it. I clicked earlier today on my lunch break. FORTY MINUTES LATER...I had to tear myself away from a Rent related page about "Bring Out Your Gays" and...wait, Crowning Music of Awesome and it links to the WWE...hang on... (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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psychop_rex, 2009-10-12 08:49 am UTC

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endis_ni, 2009-10-12 03:27 pm UTC

	sistermagpie 2009-10-11 10:14 pm UTC (link)
	No matter how many times I see this picture, it's still one of the sexiest things I've ever seen in comics. And looking at it now I'm comparing it to the Tim/Dick posted not so long ago, by the Lazarus pit? And just looking at them together makes this even slashier. (Reply to this)

	perletwo 2009-10-11 10:29 pm UTC (link)
	Said it before, sayin' it again: full-on, no-subtext boob and ass gropiage goin' on there. Totally. (Reply to this)

	retro_nouveau 2009-10-11 10:49 pm UTC (link)
	Whoa, that train left subtext into text a long time ago, next stop superscript. Ease up that grip, Dinah - the Oracleavage is tilted at a 15-degree angle! XD (Reply to this)

	mysteryfan 2009-10-11 11:00 pm UTC (link)
	Seen it before, but yes. Still very, very hot. Who's the artist, again? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	In Google I Trust galateus 2009-10-11 11:07 pm UTC (link)
	'Jackson Guice (pencils, inks) [...] Gloria Vasquez (colors); Digital Chameleon (color seperations)' (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: In Google I Trust -

mysteryfan, 2009-10-12 01:12 am UTC

	bluefall 2009-10-11 11:07 pm UTC (link)
	Butch Guice. Which is why this is so fun. I don't love his run on Birds, but one thing you can absolutely say about him is he doesn't put women into weird or porny positions when it isn't appropriate. If this were still Land, you could wave it off, all "oh he just traced it from porn, it doesn't mean anything," but not with Guice. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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mysteryfan, 2009-10-12 01:12 am UTC

	mullon 2009-10-11 11:17 pm UTC (link)
	I wonder how many people are responsible for some of those. I'm assuming all the ones at the bottom. (Reply to this)

	thebigapricot 2009-10-11 11:53 pm UTC (link)
	It always cracks me up that the most iconic slash image of Babs and Dinah came on Dixon's run. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	darkknightjrk 2009-10-11 11:59 pm UTC (link)
	...Please don't tell me he's a phobe. It would make me really sad. :( (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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bluefall, 2009-10-12 12:02 am UTC

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galateus, 2009-10-12 12:38 am UTC

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scottyquick, 2009-10-12 12:56 am UTC

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thebigapricot, 2009-10-12 01:08 am UTC

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scottyquick, 2009-10-12 01:25 am UTC

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bluefall, 2009-10-12 01:52 am UTC

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scottyquick, 2009-10-12 02:01 am UTC

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bluefall, 2009-10-12 02:23 am UTC

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scottyquick, 2009-10-12 02:43 am UTC

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ladymirth, 2009-10-12 05:55 pm UTC

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scottyquick, 2009-10-12 06:00 pm UTC

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ladymirth, 2009-10-12 06:03 pm UTC

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runespoor7, 2009-10-12 09:34 pm UTC

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galateus, 2009-10-12 02:41 am UTC

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ladymirth, 2009-10-12 06:05 pm UTC

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galateus, 2009-10-12 07:14 pm UTC

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ladymirth, 2009-10-13 02:47 am UTC

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misterfedex, 2009-10-12 03:44 am UTC

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bluefall, 2009-10-12 05:24 am UTC

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ladymirth, 2009-10-12 05:53 pm UTC

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bariman1987, 2009-10-13 12:07 pm UTC

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gailsimone, 2009-10-13 01:02 pm UTC

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darkknightjrk, 2009-10-13 03:35 pm UTC

	bluejaybirdie 2009-10-12 12:07 am UTC (link)
	Heh. Look at Dinah cop a feel there. And Babs is about to! Reportedly, the "hetero to the BONE" line was originally something like "80% hetero", but got changed by the editors :( (Reply to this) (Thread)

bluefall
2009-10-12 12:51 am UTC (link)

Shit, I wish I still had the email, or we still had comments from the old site. IIRC Gail said it was "placeholder dialog," as in, that's what she put on the page, intending to later get clearance to change it (which she expected she'd be able to), but never got around to it.

It's not a real hard line to work with as is, though, you can easily go the "deep denial" route, since "I AM SO VERY HETERO THAT I AM HETERO RIGHT DOWN TO MY BONES" spins pretty well as "doth protest too much," and the whole running-off-to-Asia-when-Babs-gets-engaged and marry-Ollie-despite-not-having-a-single-real-reason-to shenanigans support the reading of "desperate to assert her heterosexuality."

I love this post, I get to give my favorite icon a workout.

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scottyquick, 2009-10-12 12:54 am UTC

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bluejaybirdie, 2009-10-12 01:15 am UTC

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gailsimone, 2009-10-13 11:32 am UTC

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bariman1987, 2009-10-13 12:15 pm UTC

! -

bluejaybirdie, 2009-10-13 11:01 pm UTC

	ladymirth 2009-10-12 05:56 pm UTC (link)
	What "hetero to the bone line"? What's that about? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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galateus, 2009-10-12 07:04 pm UTC

gailsimone
2009-10-13 11:31 am UTC (link)

Yeah, that's exactly what happened. I often try out a lot of different dialogue, and most of my scripts go through several stages, but the crucial one is the one right after the art comes back with tentative lettering, because that's the final stage.

I am not sure where the 'hetero to the bone,' thing actually was coming from, as it's not how I think of Diana. I needed the line to be fierce, and while I thought her saying "and at least 70% hetero" was a much better line, it didn't have the appropriate dramatic punch I needed for that moment. In the end, I switched it to that anyway as I felt it made the point.

I still have the corrected script. When the actual issue came out and none of the fixes had been made, I was heartbroken. It not only didn't say what I wanted to say about Dinah, it sort of flew in the face of the interactive flexibility that I had wanted to build with the character. It should have been an important moment, because it states, for canon, a bisexual curiosity, at least.

But a couple important things...the editor of the book at that time was an openly lesbian woman and activist. She didn't take the comment out on purpose, it was simply a matter of the book running very late. A similar thing happened on my first Teen Titans issue, to much more devastatingly terrible effect, unfortunately.

And yeah, I'm still bummed about it. Even more irritating is that I had a chance to fix it in the TPBs and wasn't told about it in time.

Bleah.

Dinah's love for Babs is pretty obvious anyway, I think.

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drsevarius, 2009-10-15 06:27 am UTC

	retro_nouveau 2009-10-12 03:54 am UTC (link)
	Well, I had to try "the most iconic slash image of Babs and Dinah" or the ~~plot bunny~~ pixel bunny was going to eat away at my brain. (Reply to this)

ladymirth
2009-10-12 06:00 pm UTC (link)

I see no sub in this text.

Speaking as a completely straight female, this is one of the sexiest images in comics I've ever seen. Incidentally, my love for Dixon-Guice is only eclipsed by my love for Gail's run. I remember thinking during Dixon's run "there is no possible way this comic could get any awesomer" and then Simone took over and I had fits from awesome overload.

Best. DC Book. Ever.

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	scottyquick 2009-10-12 07:30 pm UTC (link)
	I KNOW RIGHT! Birds of Prey was so cool. So cool. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	bariman1987 2009-10-13 12:14 pm UTC (link)
	I see no sub in this text. But Dinah's right there! Best. DC Book. Ever. I don't know, Blue Beetle gave it a run for its money. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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bluefall, 2009-10-13 10:18 pm UTC