InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Draft Gore!"

benicio127 (benicio127) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-09-25 11:24:00

Entry tags:

char: joker, creator: guillem march, creator: paul dini, title: gotham city sirens

Return of Mr. J in comics
Words cannot express my love for these two pages.

Upcoming Gotham City Sirens preview can be found here: http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2009/09/25/will-the-joker-cross-paths-with-the-gotham-city-sirens/

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS.

I'm LOL'ing at the juxtaposition of his melodramatic tantrum and the sheer amount of pictures he has of Harley that he has to destroy. Also the fact that he has a Harley doll.

But I think this solves the mystery of how Mr. J is coming back in comics. (Wearing the ol' zoot suit, and not a new costume. Coughcoughcough) EDITED To add: I LOL'd over this. Alley-catting means gang banging. HAHAAHAHA. That's hilarious.

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ex_stig213
2009-09-25 09:42 pm UTC (link)

Don't take this as a personal insult, but you know how classic comics used to have slogans such as "Do Not Miss This One!" or "Find Out What Happens!", etc.? Basically the entirety of Dini's work could easily have an equivalent on the lines of "Nothing Important Will Happen".

At least now we are certain of who was to blame for the gigantic disregard to basic continuity during Countdown To Final Crisis.

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sailorlibra
2009-09-25 09:49 pm UTC (link)

Frankly, I don't give a damn about whether or not something important happens in a story; I just care about if the story interests me. In fact, I prefer stories that don't claim to be the "greatest, biggest story of all" because those get really, really old. I don't want to see the world changed, I just want to be amused for ten minutes.

Which probably explains why I like him and you don't.

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ex_stig213
2009-09-25 09:55 pm UTC (link)

I think we're using wildly different interpretations of the word 'important', and admittedly I'm using a rather wide definition. I don't always want a story to be huge and big and the greatest; but it should at least impress me in some way, be original or new, for me to think it worth spending my money on - and often, for it to be entertaining.

This isn't impressive, original or new. It's a rerun. It's the same old endless Joker-Harley story, and it is dull, dull, dull - and to add insult to injury, it obstinately pushes aside the continuity of other books to go "No, This Is What I'M Doing".

Never mind that Dini is one of the most sexist writers in DC.

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sailorlibra
2009-09-25 10:04 pm UTC (link)

This isn't impressive, original or new. It's a rerun. It's the same old endless Joker-Harley story
This I do agree with to an extent, but I think that extent is me not being a fan of Joker and Harley. I know there are lots of people who are very excited about this story, whether it's a bit old or not. In general, I would say that I trust him to bring something new to the story, but I haven't been too impressed with his run on Gotham City Sirens, so this could very well suck.

it obstinately pushes aside the continuity of other books to go "No, This Is What I'M Doing".
All comic book writers do that everytime a retconn happens. For example, Morrison completely through Countdown to FC out the window while writing FC. Yes, Countdown sucked, but it was still a rude thing to do. So while Dini's neglect to address Joker's feelings about Batman's death really bothers me, I don't think it makes him evil.

Never mind that Dini is one of the most sexist writers in DC.
Scans or it didn't happen. I've never noted anything particularly sexist in any of the books I've read by him. (The word "particularly" was used, because comic books in general tend to be a little sexist.) If you're going to throw that accusation out there, you're going to have to prove it to me.

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	sailorlibra 2009-09-25 10:06 pm UTC (link)
	*completely threw Countdown to FC Brain does not work today. (Reply to this) (Parent)

ex_stig213
2009-09-25 11:38 pm UTC (link)

Actually, in your example, it was the Countdown team that threw out the continuity. Morrison was planning the whole thing out in every detail - it being very complicated - but editorial thought they could make a buck from a lead-in series, so they asked him for the first issue's script and gave it to the Countdown team; they ignored everything but the bare bones of the stories they were meant to be leading into, instead just doing their own thing and generally sucking at it.

Unfortunately, my scanner is broken, so here's a few textual examples:

* Poison Ivy – his previous non-DCAU story with her consists of her being stalked by a giant plant, possessed with the souls of the people she fed to it (cliche alert), leading to an entire issue of poor excuses for tentacle porn in which she is raped by said plant and develops a phobia of her own freaking powers, rendering her utterly pathetic and useless. Or, in simple terms, she spent an entire issue being raped by a haunted tree.
* Catwoman – his major arc with her in Detective reduces her to “Batman’s ex/Woman in Fridge/Woman placed on pedestal”, less than half a year after the final issue of her series said the exact opposite.
* Likewise Zatanna – all the character-building and ideas created by Morrison in Seven Soldiers: Zatanna are thrown out the window in favour of a Mary-Sue “Batman’s Girlfriend” based largely on Dini's own wife - which really shouldn't be allowed.
* Oh, and the ‘new, improved’ Ventriloquist. I’ve explained this before, but here we go again: The Ventriloquist-Scarface team worked only because it was a juxtaposition of how pathetic Arnold Wesker was compared with his alter-ego; look, for instance, in BATMAN: CITY OF CRIME, where his blank expression and silent demeanour next to his alter-ego gives him an almost frightening aspect. Replacing Wesker with a beautiful vapid blonde woman negates all of the character’s interesting features and potential for scariness, partly because it suggests that Scarface is more of a malevolent spirit than one man’s alternate personality (it is scientifically and psychologically impossible for two separate people to engender the same alternate personality), and partly because it implies that beautiful blonde women are just as pathetic as sad, useless old men. Which is a pretty broad generalisation, no?
* …And continuing with that trend, the new Ventriloquist’s origin? “Hush’s Girlfriend”.

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sailorlibra
2009-09-26 03:44 am UTC (link)

1) Poison Ivy: As far as I could tell, the tree was supposed to be symbolic of Poison Ivy's bad karma catching up with her. The only thing sexual about the story I noticed was the art.

2) Catwoman: FYI, female superheroes are allowed to be injured without being fridged, same as male characters. Whether or not an injury is WiR-worthy usually depends on the response of the attacked. What did Catwoman do when she recovered? She took away from him the one thing he really cared about. If that's the actions of a weak character, then Batman, who has never really had the upper hand on Hush, must be really pathetic. On the other hand, Selina's own series had her getting pregnant from a guy she barely knew and then give up Helena when the writer got tired of writing about her.

3) Zatanna: I don't see why you think that a woman can't be someone's potential love interest and a strong character in her own right. And I also don't see why Dini should base his Zatanna off a version that wasn't even in continuity. This is really a topic we're never going to agree on, since I personally believe that Grant Morrison is a very sexist writer. His Zee series wasn't too bad, but his bitchy Lois Lane from All Star Superman and his fridged Wonder Woman from Final Crisis really got on my nerves. And his Bulleteer series seemed to imply that all women were obsessed with men.

4) Ventriloquist: Seriously calling the new Ventriloquist "vapid?" I don't think so. Her character was not as complicated as Wesker's, which is expected considering he had been around a lot longer than her, but she had an interesting backstory and she was very intelligent. To me your explanation for why you don't like her seems actually pretty sexist. Your basic explanation is oooh, she's a woman. Women can't be scary or creeped or messed up.

Her being Hush's girlfriend did annoy me, but not because it seemed sexist. Dini's tying Peyton in with Matthew and Hush just seemed like really lazy writing. Like he couldn't think up a new female and decided to stick her in last minute. Also, it messed up her character as had been established before.

Frankly, even if I believed the examples you list to be truly sexist, Dini would still not qualify as one of the more sexist writers in comics.

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	batcookies 2009-09-26 03:50 am UTC (link)
	Peyton's origin isn't even "Hush's girlfriend". That's part of her past, but it wasn't the thing that defined her. She got stuck in a mob marriage because of her dad, proved to be far smarter and more competent than her louse of a husband, and then he tried to kill her when he got tired of her... so she rose from the grave and killed him instead. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	benicio127 2009-09-25 10:05 pm UTC (link)
	Never mind that Dini is one of the most sexist writers in DC. Where are you getting THAT from? Maybe you should give some sources before throwing out the accusations, esp. one like that. And especially since Dini has written some very amazing women and created some; in part giving us Renee Montoya as well. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kingrockwell 2009-09-26 03:09 am UTC (link)
	Well, He gave us Renee to begin with, at least, but the Renee we know today is just as much, if not more, given by Greg Rucka. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	every-piece.livejournal.com 2009-09-26 12:03 am UTC (link)
	iawtc (Reply to this) (Parent)

	jlbarnett 2009-09-25 10:27 pm UTC (link)
	same here. Just give me good solid writing. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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