Tweak

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Tweak says, "Jenny... 867-5309!"

Lindsey McDonald (stopitevilhand) wrote in colligo_network,
@ 2009-05-23 10:38:00

Entry tags:

james t. kirk (xi)

A minute ago, I was dead in a demon bar and now I'm here. Answer seemed pretty simple. Holding hell dimension. City backdrop, people know nothing, weird ass sentinels keeping you out of places you aren't supposed to go.

Except I'm alive, not brainwashed to think I'm a nice family guy, and they don't give you PDAs with access to message boards.

What the fuck is this place? And more importantly, how do I get out of here? I've got scores to settle.

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stopitevilhand
2009-05-23 10:31 am UTC (link)

Not a relevant point. I was there, now I'm here, and it wasn't by my choosing. Some humans know about demons. Just because the majority of the population is either oblivious or in serious denial doesn't mean there aren't those out there that accept the fact that we aren't alone in the dark. Not lying and not trying to become one. ~~Just needed their strength and speed.~~ And since you seem to know about demons and yet protest that humans don't know about them, what does that make you?

Great. Just what I wanted to hear.

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witchwithaplan
2009-05-23 10:42 am UTC (link)

Pretty relevant point if you start munching on some innocents. ~~No matter how stupid the locals tend to be.~~ Then I'd have to Vanquish you, and I try to know as much as I can before going in with the potions. Oh, I know that but it's like I said. I want to know. Plus, in my experiance anyone who hangs out in demon bars isn't the type of being-demon or not-that I'd invite home for Christmas. Or want around the rest of the population. Me? One of the most powerful good witches in my dimension. Not to mention part ~~whitelighter~~ angel.

Wait til you hear about the natives and the dorms. Then you'll really be jumping for joy.

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stopitevilhand
2009-05-23 10:53 am UTC (link)

Considering I'm neither cannibal or - despite supposedly no longer being dead - nor zombie, that will never happen. If you need to know that badly, I was taking out an elite member of a group that cultivates and ushers in the apocalypse and his entourage. I've seen some innocent types hang out in demon bars. Just like the human types. Not all of them are seedy and full of low lifes.

Powerful witch, huh? Where I come from, they are one and the same as humans, just with a little more oomph to them than everyone else. I didn't know angels could procreate.

Dorms? Screw it. This is starting to sound like Hell.

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witchwithaplan
2009-05-23 11:21 am UTC (link)

Well, you could be into throwing fireballs at them, if your diet's more into the vegitarian side. So you were a spy? Wow. That's a bad way to go. Where I'm from only Evil demons hang out in demon bars. Not the good ones, probably not even the neutral ones, and certainly not any human that wasn't angling to become one or was meant for death.

There are two types of witches where I come from, the magical type-like moi-and the practitioners, like Neopagans. The magical witches are born, I guess you could say it's a genetic trait because usually somebody in their family line was a born witch, and they start out with at least one supernatural ability. Magical witches can also say spells, scry for demons and other witches (good or evil), and make potions. To name a few things.

Angels ... they're gaurdian angels for good witches, the rules are pretty different. They shouldn't but they can.

Oh, it's not so bad. I don't know if your Hell is like the Underworld or like the Demonic Wasteland, but compared to those two places, here's pretty peachy keen.

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stopitevilhand
2009-05-23 11:40 am UTC (link)

Always wanted to learn how to do that but never had the time. Not a spy. It's a long and complicated story that I'm not telling to someone I just started talking to whose name I don't even know. You should see where I come from. Pacifist demon ran a no violence karaoke bar open to all species. Becoming a demon?

So practitioners can't say spells, scry, or make potions among other things? I know some people are more inclined towards magic than others but beyond the psychic subtype, I don't think I've ever heard of someone being born with that kind of power. Maybe forseen.

Angels with a rebel streak. Nice.

There's thousands of them and they can be just about anything miserable.

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witchwithaplan
2009-05-23 11:54 am UTC (link)

~~Humans can~~ ~~Well, I guess so ... but you know this isn't helping your cause that you don't want to become a demon~~ Right. ~~You could be a warlock, maybe warlocks in your world aren't born and aren't evil ... Right~~ I'm sorry. I didn't mean to guess or pry. Paige Matthews, by the way. Pacifist ... demons? I ... guess, that could happen. Always learning something new.

There's this training, pretty brutual from what I've heard, that humans can go through. They earn these marks-chevrons, if I remember right-they need six to become a full-fledged demon. "Graduation" involves killing an innocent.

They could try, but it wouldn't have any results. At least nothing beyond their imaginations ~~especially if they're more of a whack-job than a religious practitioner~~. Guess that's the differences in other dimensions. Witches can have anything from Astral Projection-without spells and potions-to Thought Projection. ~~Forseen?~~ Forseen?

Heh. That's a nice way of putting it ~~better than those long nagging speeches that the Elders usually give~~.

Interesting.

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stopitevilhand
2009-05-23 12:05 pm UTC (link)

Pacifist demons. ~~Except when they're assassinating you.~~ My place, demons are a lot like people. Hundreds, maybe thousands of species, but in about half of them, most are smart enough to have their own personality and quirks. Evil, good, neutral. Shades of grey. Name's Lindsey McDonald.

Never heard of that. Noncoporeal demons can get installed in human corposes by necromancers and vampires are basically demons riding shotgun in the deceased but that's about it.

Huh. This is interesting. You hear about alternate realities but you never quite get how different two seeming similar can be until you talk to someone from the other side. The smarter and determined ones are usually the ones with the ability to do the stronger magics. Seers? Predicting the future? Some of them are hired to tap key players before they're walking.

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witchwithaplan
2009-05-23 12:22 pm UTC (link)

Weird. We've had some good demons, okay, maybe a handful. Though I don't think any of them were Pacifist. Guess it's hard to learn that when most of them are trying to kill you. Shades of grey with demons ... I think I can believe that. Maybe. It would probably make things more complicated. It's hard enough knowing if a Magical witch is friend or foe. We have thousands of different species too, and for the most part-as far as I know, at least-they're all Evil. Capital E. You might luck out and find one, whose a really good guy, helps you out every now and again. But for the most part, even the half-demons just want to prove they're just as evil as the full ones.

Yep. It's all matter of the kill. Wait. So your vampires are really dead humans, reanimated somehow? Talk about bizarre. Then again, I guess it isn't anymore strange than undead demons or almost becoming one.

Alternate realties are a bitch. Worse than time traveling. And still humans. ~~I'll have to write all of this into the Book of Shadows when I get back home ..~~ Ohhh ... Seers. We have those too. Oracles. Soothsayers. Some witches have the ability of premonition. Then there is THE Seer. The 'the' is very important. She tends to be a 'she' and she usually was the eyes and ears and voyeur for the Source of All Evil. We Vanquished her ass. Seers, with 'the', are usually evil ... except for one. Other seers are like witches, they can be good or evil. Or even in between. Though pretty much usually they have a side.

Key players? You mean, like destinies?

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stopitevilhand
2009-05-23 12:51 pm UTC (link)

It's the concept of the more attention the species gets, the more its known for the cause of that attention. The good ones keep their heads down. The evil ones don't. Of course, that applies to everyone. If we come to find out that there is intelligent life out there, they probably think the majority of us are vapid idiots with a penchant for the dramatic. Which might be true to a point but the rest of us are poorly represented because we don't attract that kind of attention.

Pretty much. The story goes that before mankind booted the last purebred demon out of our dimension, it bit a human and infected him, creating the first vampire. Demons basically regard them as halfbreeds, not much to trifle with. Not really. Anyway you look at it, it's some kind of screwed up.

You're not wrong. I've known a few, no real alignment. Then there was one that was the messanger for the Powers That Be, known as the represenatives of Good. She was a pain in my ass and wouldn't know tact if it stood right in front of her and sang opera. I'm guessing the ones of your dimension got that whole annoyingly vague thing going on for them too?

Yeah. Tapped to play a bigger part in the ongoing battle between Good and Evil, at its most simple.

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witchwithaplan
2009-05-23 01:14 pm UTC (link)

Makes sense. I guess I always thought of magical creatures as being the umbrella and everything else being the categories that fell under it. Like leprechauns, fairies, and muses are good. Demons, hags, and vampires are evil. Firestarters, Valkyries, and witch doctors ~~for the most part~~ are neutral. Any variations are usually exceptions to the rule. Sure they have their evil or good counterparts, like the angels have dark~~lighters~~angels and the fairies have the trolls .. But you're right, it's something to consider more.

So if they were human, do they still have human wants? Needs? Interests? Do they have souls. Demons, at least the halfbreeds have souls. There wants and needs to focus more on power and domination, they don't feel the way that humans do. At least mine don't. ... And I'm sorry to be throwing all these questions at you. It's just all so very interesting, who would have thought that vampires could be so different. Do yours turn into bats? ... Don't answer that. Unless, you know, you want to. Then hey? Who am I to stop you?

If humans in your world booted out the demons, why don't most of them know about them? Knowledge lost throughout the years?

God yes, you'd think having a pool that shows you what's happening would make things much more easier to explain. But premonitions, I guess I can understand why they're vague. First off the people controlling them are jerks and rarely ever know anything themselves. Second, they usually depend on how strong the witch who has them is. I know someone who could only see bits and pieces flashes, when she first started. But as she became stronger she was mentally transported to her visions, so she could walk around ... and actually get with the specifics. It didn't hurt that she was an Empath too.

Sooooo ... your dimension doesn't have anything called Elders as the ~~supposed~~ head honcho good guys? ~~Your seer sounds a lot like Piper .. except for the opera singing~~

Oh, well. That just sounds like the story of my life the past three years.

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stopitevilhand
2009-05-23 01:39 pm UTC (link)

No such distinction. You've got your few species predisposed to evil and the ones that are nothing more than dumb muscle for hire. The ones with half a brain are pretty much just strange looking human beings, magic and abilities aside. You guys actually have leprechauns?

After the whole blood exchange, the person dies and their soul flies off to who knows where. The demon takes its place but it retains the personality and memories of the person. Except it really is evil. The only exception is a gypsy curse that can return the soul to the vampire. Rare and usually comes with a catch. One moment of happiness and it's back to maiming and killing again. No turning into bats, wolves, mist.

I've studied this kind of thing for a good part of my life. Discussing it beats growing dwelling on and becoming frustrated by my current situation.

They don't say. No doubt some of them were forerunners for the Watcher's Council. If you don't have that one, long story short, "good guys" that prep girls in case one of them gets called to be the Slayer. One girl in her generation to fight the darkness, yada ya and so on.

Good to know. Nothing worse than being given a color and a single world and then being expected to make something out of it. Not to mention the vague prophecies that could either be the apocalypse in May 2004 or a brawl at a soccer game in England in June. Higher powers. Doesn't matter which side, they are bitches. That whole "won't interfere" thing is bullshit.

The Powers That Be would probably be the Elders. Higher beings, right? Opposition is the Senior Partners. They clash regularly.

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witchwithaplan
2009-05-23 01:55 pm UTC (link)

Huh. Dumb enough for hire, I think there will be a bunch of those no matter what the dimension. Yes, we have leprechauns. I've become working friends with a few of them. We help each other out where we can. We have a lot of things I never would have thought existed before I found out about my powers, and believe me when I say before that I was pretty open minded about the supernatural.

~~This is so going into the Book of Shadows, never know when another reality rift will happen~~ Soulless, evil, killers. Got it. One true moment of happiness, that's got to bite. No pun intended.

Dwelling and frustration never really solves anything. ~~Unless you're pouting ... and rambling, then that's just because it feels good~~

Most of your life? So if you're not a Warlock, not a demon, not a witch, and you're human ... are you part of this Watcher's Council. "Good guys". Got to love the "good guys". With their constant spiel about the greater good and knowing what's best and that constant need to mess with people's lives. They too fall under the "don't invite over for Christmas or trust with the general population". One girl? Does she have supernatural abilities? Magic?

Prophecies. Annoying things. But they're helpful to know to a) help fulfill a destiny or b) keep one from happening. Exactly! Because all they do is interfere and try to take your life from you.

Yep. Senior Partners? Your evil is organized? ~~And lawyers?~~ I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. The Underworld had the Source of All Evil. He pretty much ruled everything, I guess sorta like a loose confederation. Me and my ~~sisters~~ coven got rid of him. Ever since then demons and other evil critters have been scrambling to take control. Easier said than done.

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stopitevilhand
2009-05-23 02:17 pm UTC (link)

Who would've thought muscle for hire would be a constant. That'd be one of the few species we don't have. Got banshees though. Ear drums didn't quit ringing for hours after that meeting. I wasn't so much open as I didn't give a damn about it before I realized it existed.

That it does, especially when that soul is keeping a serial killer with the world's biggest body count on the good guy team. Soul's gone, chaos breaks loose.

Feels like it. After getting out of law school, at least. Not part of the Watcher's Council. I get the feeling they'd lock me in their holding cells if I even came within ten feet of them. And don't forget their blatent hypocrisy, the choice of who can be redeemed and who can't, they're right and everyone else is wrong. If the "good guys" had more anti-heroes, the scales would be a little more in balance.

She's got enhanced strength, speed, endurance, healing. Enough to keep her toe to toe with the vamps and demons. I heard prophetic dreams but that might just be rumored. No magic. They're the warriors.

Or just lead to a big build up where nothing happens at all. It really is hit and miss with those things.

Somewhat. The Senior Partners are higher beings, very powerful demons. They exist as long as evil exists, hate, anger, betrayal, all that. They have a set up that exists to nurture and spread that evil. Some of their side fall in line, others don't really know much about it.

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witchwithaplan
2009-05-23 02:54 pm UTC (link)

I would have. What with the way half of them like lording it over people, there'd have to be some-being out there dumb enough to make them feel good about themselves. I know someone who got turned into one. Long story. Most people usually don't. I was just a really weird little kid ... that grew up to be a really weird adult. Made my day meeting a Sandman.

Oh, so when you said rare? You meant just the one. That's bad. Very bad. I'm guessing that your gypsies aren't much like your witches if they can curse people with souls. Though, I gotta admit, while I've met some powerful gypsies-very powerful ... they're kind of like of my kind of witches, born-I've never heard of any this soul-business. Might be because we don't have your type of vamps. But I would have thought that magic like that would be trans-dimensional. Like Karma magic.

They have a magic law school in your world? Or did you .. work for those Senior Partners? Why would they do that? Don't get me started on the hypocrisy. "We must protect the future of good magic ... oh, wait, except that little bit of future, becuase it's too powerful and I'm just a really big wimp." Does power make a person good or evil? No! It doesn't. Yeah, yeah, sure, power corrupts, but is it that hard to imagine that a good and solid up-bringing can change all of that? ~~Bet his dumb Elder self didn't even consider the fact that someone he trusted actually trying to kill Wyatt could have been one of the things that made evil-him~~ Sorry. Sore spot. Anti-hero good guys? You mean people just in it for themselves? Or more like Batman. Who didn't always play it by the rules. Except you know, not as violent. And yes, I do know all about Batman's wily ways. ~~Being a teacher than a Headmistress does that to a person~~ I guess it makes sense. I certainly know that me and my coven spent all of our time since we learned about magic, breaking a lot of the more ridiculous rules.

That's .. that's not fair. Even with all of that one girl wouldn't be able to handle all the forces of evil on her own, even if it was just the demons and vamps. I have my coven, the ability to orb, a form of telekinisis, am more durable the average person, and have the scrying and the potions and all the regular witchy stuff. That still hasn't stopped me from dying seven times in the three years that I've been doing magic! These Watcher guys are sounding so much more messed up than the Elders and that's saying something!

Most of our prophecies something has happened. They usually predict death or birth or speak about destinies or the days that magic is just going to up and die. No battles or anything. Not that I know of. I'd have to check out Magic School about that.

Sounds like the Source. What would happen if someone just sealed them out of your dimension? Or destroyed their bodies? Just out of curiousity? Because when we destroyed the Source's demonic body, the essence which pretty much is as ancient as your Senior Partners, just went to the next one crowned as the Source. But we managed to take care of that when our coven's angel just orbed that thing under a rock. Far, far away. Balance was still normal. However, when the Avatars took over and erased all evil ... well, that's when things went, for lack of a better word, bad. ... What I'm trying to ask is. Which would happen if your good guys, without the quotes, kicked your Partners butts?

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stopitevilhand
2009-05-23 03:32 pm UTC (link)

My mama was a believer. I just accepted it and didn't give much thought after. One of those things where if it doesn't affect you, it's not worth dwelling on. You've met an actual Sandman? There any species that you haven't actually met?

Two. The one mentioned above and his grandchilde, the latter actually going out of his way to get his to impress a Slayer, no less. Don't ask. It's a tedious soap opera. Gypsies share a similar brand of magic, just specialized. Doesn't mean someone who isn't a gypsy couldn't do it, just that they're known for it. Same goes with shamans, who know a spell to remove the soul. It probably is the differences in realities. Changes the rules.

There's no magical law schools. It's the kind of thing you learn only after you've been employed, unless you've run into it beforehand. They'd lock me up because my reputation isn't exactly sterling. Ever notice they can't do anything themselves? There's always someone sent to do their dirty work unless it isn't going their way. Then they step in. Upbringing might change that but I doubt it factors in as strongly as personality and disposition does.

Anti-hero. Someone willing to do some evil to do some good. Side "evil" doesn't think twice about some of the methods it uses while side "good" has a list of rules a mile long about what it can't do to win. Evil sometimes wins just because Good has its hands tied, all under the excuse "for the greater good." So yeah, something like Batman. Or what I can remember of him.

Tell it to the Watcher's Council. Then again, they don't see her as much more than a weapon anyway. One dies, another takes her place. Seems the only one who ever really loses sleep over it is the Watcher assigned to her that ends up caring about her. It happens.

Magic School? There's an actual school to go learn magic?

Wouldn't happen. To defeat the Senior Partners, all bad in the world would have to cease to exist. They exist on another plane and if there's evidence to them having physical bodies, they've managed to keep it out of all recorded records. That's the thing. Evil can't cease to exist. There will always be something and on the long shot that it does? There goes balance and the world as we know it is screwed. Same goes for good.

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witchwithaplan
2009-05-23 04:12 pm UTC (link)

~~That’s a great outlook on life~~ Uhh, well, I didn’t actually meet the Banshee. I’ve never met a Wendigo. Thank God for that too. I’ve never met a Bunyip. I’m sure there are lots out there that I haven’t met yet.

But aren’t Slayers … oh, well, it could be romantic. It could be about trials and tribulation and fighting against the rules. Or it could just be a lot of angst. And boring. Okay. No asking. Got it.

~~You didn’t answer my question about you and these Partners .. Though I guess you kind of just did~~ Uh-huh. And what exactly is “isn’t exactly sterling”? Of course I notice. I have to deal with it all the damn time. Makes you want to strangle them. Especially since they’re supposed to “know more than you do”. Yeah, I notice that too. Can’t see why they couldn’t have stepped in for the first place. Not only does it causes them less frustration, it makes it easier for me to step in and give them just what they deserve before they can actually do any harm. I think that matters a lot too. I think that despite my wild youth, if I’d been adopted by lowlifes I’d still be determined enough to make something out of myself. At the same time, I know the way my adopted parents raised me went a long way in shaping my future and my decisions. Not to mention, the fact there are forces out there that are quite capable of turning someone evil. No matter their personality or disposition. Just like a love of a good parent is sometimes just enough to keep a baby from giving into their demon side-a demon side that is completely evil.

I can’t believe I’m going to say this … but rules are there for a reason. If we didn’t have the rules who knows what the less moral would be willing to do. Heck, I’d like to say I’m on pretty good moral and karmic standing, and I know I’d be willing to cut more than a few rules but once you start on that path, often times there is no stopping it. Batman also had his family to keep him from going too far. Not all anti-heroes are gonna have that.

I hope one of those Watcher people don’t end up showing here. Or else I might forget just for a second that I can’t use my powers against humans.

Yep. To provide a space of education and safety for the next generation of good magic. Give them some place where they won’t feel like .. Well, like a freak for having powers. Where they can learn about magical history, improve their craft, take classes on everything from astral projection to telekinesis and biology to literature. The school it self is pretty secret, but it’s … it’s hard to describe magic school in and of itself. I’ve worked in it for almost a year now ~~I think, time goes by so fast .. A year~~ and I’ve been the Headmistress for almost half as long and I still haven’t discovered all the rooms in the place.

Then it’s like, or would be like, when the Avatars tried to create Utopia. Or when Gideon screwed with the balance. Having lived through two versions of a world without Evil, I agree .. As much as it has taken so much from me ~~and mine~~, I kinda like that thing called free will.

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stopitevilhand
2009-05-23 05:53 pm UTC (link)

They know all, they see all, they do whatever the hell they want. Despite what they want us to believe, omniscent beings, good or evil, are not above being petty, throwing tantrums, or breaking their own rules. It makes them less than perfect which is better for us in the long run. I'm not saying upbringing doesn't factor in but you could have a kid raised in a good, loving household that ends up wanting to kill his little sister because she got more marshmallows in her hot chocolate than he did.

Some of them are. Others are put in place to protect the ass or asses of the rule makers and let's them get away with things they might otherwise not be able to. Not every rule should be followed. No they don't but not every anti-hero is going to fall by the dark side because he's got a few damaged morals either.

Huh. Learning magic is still just a self-taught or mentor thing where I'm from, outside of the few covens in existence.

There should always be the right to free will. Once that's taken away, the end is coming soon after, as overdramatic as it sounds.

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witchwithaplan
2009-05-23 06:25 pm UTC (link)

I don't know if the Elders are exactly omniscient since they're clueless about a lot of things but I get and agree with what you're saying. Okay, and I get that point too ~~Please don't ever talk to Piper. She's neurotic enough about Wyatt as it is. Now with baby Chris~~.

Can't say I've seen or heard of the Elder's breaking that many rules. Only one, but I guess where one can, they all can. I know not every rule should be followed. Believe me if they all had been, I wouldn't be here talking to you right now. I owe my birth to rule-breaking, but for the most part they're good guidelines. And not every rule follower is going to end up like a Watcher or an Elder or your powers.

Me and my coven were mostly self-taught. We didn't learn about Magic School until they really needed our help.

Oh don't worry about overdramatic. It has it's place. And when it comes to free will, I say go with it.

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	stopitevilhand 2009-05-23 07:50 pm UTC (link)
	It's possible they can be but there's ways of fooling them too. Just have to know where to look. I'm not saying all rules. There are some to keep to if you want to live to see another day but others...probably just something we'd have to agree to disagree on. And then you later on ended up headmistress of the school. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

witchwithaplan
2009-05-23 08:17 pm UTC (link)

I think I've a few tricks up my sleeves on that front. ~~My sisters have more, of course~~

Looks like.

Yeah that, that was really unexpected. It starts off with, "Paige, teaching is the path that you must take" then it becomes a way to save the place because the vague moron who set you on said path goes evil, or all "greater good", on yeah ... Next thing you know you're being coerced by the Elders and hundreds of lost begging faces, and the head of a school.

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	stopitevilhand 2009-05-23 09:02 pm UTC (link)
	Always handy to have. ~~Damn ex-watchers.~~ And it was something you just couldn't say no to, right? That's a heck of a way to get hired. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	witchwithaplan 2009-05-23 09:11 pm UTC (link)
	I think so. Yeah, pretty much. It's not that I really wanted to say no ... I mean, I enjoy teaching. I love the school, my co-workers, the students. It's just ... running it isn't how I planned to spend the rest of my life. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	stopitevilhand 2009-05-23 09:30 pm UTC (link)
	Looks like you won't have to worry about that now. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

witchwithaplan
2009-05-23 09:36 pm UTC (link)

Of course I do. Knowing the Elders me disappearing will be just an excuse for them to close down the school and that's the very thing that I don't want. I didn't go up against them just to end up in this place and have them kick all of those kids out from the safest place that they have.

Sorry. It's just that I know the Elders and instead of doing the smart thing and look for me they're going to do what's easiest for them. Not caring who they hurt in the long run.

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	stopitevilhand 2009-05-23 09:42 pm UTC (link)
	I think that right there is evidence to some of the points in the conversation we just had. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

witchwithaplan, 2009-05-23 10:51 pm UTC

stopitevilhand, 2009-05-23 11:18 pm UTC

witchwithaplan, 2009-05-23 11:31 pm UTC

stopitevilhand, 2009-05-24 12:08 am UTC

witchwithaplan, 2009-05-24 12:19 am UTC

stopitevilhand, 2009-05-24 08:48 am UTC

witchwithaplan, 2009-05-24 09:24 am UTC

stopitevilhand, 2009-05-24 05:21 pm UTC

witchwithaplan, 2009-05-25 10:54 am UTC

stopitevilhand, 2009-05-25 11:59 am UTC

witchwithaplan, 2009-05-25 12:21 pm UTC

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