InsaneJournal

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Peter Kelly (nylonghorn) wrote in bellumletale,
@ 2010-06-04 10:36:00

Entry tags:

dr. watson, jonathan harker

202
[locked to 202]

Hey man! Haven't seen you in a while, heard you had a guy locked in the basement, thought this might be an opportune time to catch up. Cole came by to talk, just wondering if you needed anything as well.

And I tried to make out with my wife, I blame you and the booze. :-)

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acatalyst
2010-06-04 07:26 pm UTC (link)

Especially when those women love other men, brother, es la verdad. So you've decided to fight for her then, your Helena? I never got around to mentioning her to Iris, seeing as she unexpectedly cut me off, and I'm just now finding out its because of that hijo de puta Moriarty. We'll get her on the case, though.

If you hang out when the sun sets, Aaron should be wherever Cole and I are. We going to keep the asshole locked down there for that long? Because we might need to think about house arrest if it's going to be extended like that. Not that I'm saying he deserves the luxury, mind you.

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nylonghorn
2010-06-04 08:22 pm UTC (link)

You don't have to tell me that, that's for god damn sure! We should start a club. And yes, I'm going to try that whole fighting thing, I'm pretty sure I'm fighting a losing battle, but that's what lawyers do. As for Iris, she cut you off? That's not good news, we need to do something about that, people need friends around, especially when things suck. And things suck here a lot.

I'll see what I can do about getting Jonathan where he needs to be during the moon, and no we aren't keeping him locked down there for that long. Not by any stretch of the imagination. I think if we're actually going to keep imprisoning people then house arrest is the only way to go.

While I'm on the subject of getting people to talk to me, can you take me to talk to Trenton? And I'll see if Boyd is willing to talk to me, I've never met her so it seems awkward, but I have no problem trying. This needs to be less about what you want to achieve, or what Cole wants, or what the other damn tenants in this place want and more about what the people who were harmed by this guy want. We can't run some kind of trial and expect it not to set a dangerous example for the future. Unfortunately for everyone who is emotionally involved, this needs to be handled with as little emotion and as much diplomacy as possible. I'm pretty sure if I'd been in your situation I'd have done exactly what you and Cole did.

What are your thoughts man? Now that it's over and done with and there's no taking back the fact that Cole told everyone here what happened and what you both did about it, what's hindsight telling you?

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acatalyst
2010-06-04 08:34 pm UTC (link)

Hindsight's telling me we're fucked.

Hindsight's telling me we need to come up with a way to deal with this shit permanently. Some system for investigating claims before people die, or when people die. Think about how many damn attacks we've had lately - not a one of them happening on the full moon. It's dangerous, this damn building, and people get angry and scared. We've had a rape, a murder, two violent attacks, a suicide and two strange deaths in the past half year - and we haven't seen a fucking cop do anything about it.

[...]

We need something set up so other people like Cole and I don't get pissed off at seeing a poor, dead kid and react without thinking things through. We need something that lets people know there are repercussions for their actions. We've got these super powers, and some people use them for shit like hurting women and kids, Peter. That's what hindsight tells me.

Problem is, none of us have pasts that we're going to share, so we have no way of knowing who's trustworthy. My super power tells me Trenton's guilty. I can see it in my mind - There's a fight, the girl's on the floor, Aaron smashes his head. Not premeditated. That's what my ability tells me. My heart and my gut, they tell me I had to cut open an eighteen-year-old boy on my autopsy table over this shit. It tells me I had to sew up a woman who had knife marks on every inch of her body. It tells me someone sliced up a boy and left him in a trunk with a note pinned to his back. It tells me someone raped a girl who looks all of sixteen. It tells me Cole almost lost his leg to a wolf. It tells me Iris is scared, and that a whole fucking handful of people have to be as scared as she is.

[...]

I'll talk to Trenton. What do we do next?

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nylonghorn
2010-06-04 10:57 pm UTC (link)

The problem with a "system," like you said, is that no one trusts anyone around here, I can't possibly be the only open book in this place. We need to have some kind of a meeting, some kind of a group meeting with everyone who wants to be involved. Like a town hall or something. Because we can't just take it upon ourselves to instate some kind of system, but we also can't let people run wild around here.

Like I told Cole, the full moon is bad enough without sleeping with one eye open every other day of the month. I care about people here too, and I don't want to see anyone else get hurt. We have a special circumstance here with this building and my gut is just telling me to get everyone out of this place and burn this mother to the ground. But...That's not really an option.

My super power is telling me that I have a building full of people who need to be protected and that's what I intend on doing, but we can't do it without the consent and knowledge of everyone involved. We can't make decisions for these people because that's how the good guys become the bad guys, Micah.

We take this one day at a time, and we talk with the other tenants, and we come up with some kind of a plan from that. We can't please everyone, but we do have to get their input. We have to get their advice, I don't want people afraid to smoke a joint in their apartment for fear the Bellum Police Brigade is going to knock down their door. I don't want people getting mad at their boyfriend or girlfriend and accusing them of something and putting an innocent person on the hot seat.

When you're putting together something for things like this you need to take all opinions into account and come up with a plan that suits the needs. No one will be all the way happy with it, hell we might not be all the way happy with it, but it has to be sustainable. Maybe if people don't want a meeting we send out a survey. I know it sounds stupid and fifth grade, but it might work and it could be anonymous.

Things we need to think about:

1. How do we classify a crime?
2. Are we going with trial by jury of peers (in this case, each incident would need a jury selected by the "prosecution" and the "defense" and it would change every time)
3. Are we going with a review panel where they'd hear the cases and decide guilt or innocence amongst themselves?
4. Who selects the review panel? (we can have a representative from each floor chosen by the tenants on that floor, we can have an election)
5. We're going to need a review panel regardless, a "legislative body" that the tenants choose who decide if there is enough evidence to go through with a "trial"
6. What sorts of punishments are we talking about carrying out here?
7. What measures are going to be put in place to respect privacy and ensure fairness?

That's just off the top of my head there are a million more questions to consider and probably a million more I haven't even thought of. You know, most tenants associations and home owners associations have panels but they stick to "can Mrs. Jones put new siding on her house?" not "can we put someone in Bellum jail for distilling moonshine?"

We already have the watches going on, correct? That's one instance where this building seems to be working together, maybe coupled with that and the idea that there IS a mechanism in place to ensure safety it will keep people from murdering each other.

You are right, we can't keep living like this, and we can't just everyone in this place destroy each other, but we also can't be vigilantes. No one trusts each other around here, but we're going to have to start trying to if we want all want to live to see what next year looks like.

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acatalyst
2010-06-05 12:37 am UTC (link)

My original suggestion, when I was sane, was to use the watch as a way to ease into all this. We let them see that we can work together, and then we take it a step further with elected offices - law, building, moon preparation. But then everything went crazy, and we went too far with Trenton. The man pushes, though, Pedro. You'd have to gag him not to try to kill him.

Before I give you my take on your seven questions: Should we just follow whatever the law is here for that? Or should we draft our own?

I knew I liked your ass for a reason, brother.

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nylonghorn
2010-06-05 12:56 am UTC (link)

That would have been a good direction to go, and I think it's still salvageable if we want to go that way.

I think we need to take the laws we have here, and do some editing to fit the situations we've found ourselves in as of late. I don't feel comfortable having the power, or giving the power to anyone else, of handing down something like a death sentence for a crime. I think that people have a strong sense of right and wrong and if we can build laws/bylaws/rules/regulations etc and systematize it based on what we have in front of us as well as varying comfort levels we can come up with something.

We'll figure it out, that I have no doubt of. It's just a matter of figuring it out in a timely manner before the guy in the basement rots, or before people start going on a rampage around here. And what can I say, my ass is pretty awesome.

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acatalyst
2010-06-05 01:22 am UTC (link)

We need to get your wife understanding that, and I'm not saying that just because you might go sniffing around Iris if it doesn't pan out. I've already got Eliot to deal with, so you would have to get your ass in line.

1. How do we classify a crime?
We use U.S. crimes and add one for use of our abilities?

2. Are we going with trial by jury of peers (in this case, each incident would need a jury selected by the "prosecution" and the "defense" and it would change every time)
I always recommended a jury - but one building 'sheriff' to manage everything. Maybe a deputy too?

3. Are we going with a review panel where they'd hear the cases and decide guilt or innocence amongst themselves?
Just as good as number two, in my opinion.

4. Who selects the review panel? (we can have a representative from each floor chosen by the tenants on that floor, we can have an election)
Too many floors, Pedro. I think Cole's right on this one - we go with five - a set number, odd, always.

5. We're going to need a review panel regardless, a "legislative body" that the tenants choose who decide if there is enough evidence to go through with a "trial"
Yes.

6. What sorts of punishments are we talking about carrying out here?
This is the question, isn't it? House arrest and fines, for starters. But what about murderers and rapists? Has to be house arrest forever. Can they leave the building if they'd been found guilty?

7. What measures are going to be put in place to respect privacy and ensure fairness?
This is the one everyone is worried about, brother.

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nylonghorn
2010-06-05 02:21 am UTC (link)

No worries, Micah. I'm not really one for standing in line. :-)

1. Good starting point, I think we need to worry about the more serious ones the most anyway.

2. Who holds the sheriff accountable? There needs to be a mechanism in place where he or she can be voted of the island if shit goes sour.

3. Agreed

4. Five is a good number, how do we get them in place? Election idea?

6. Fines? Fines paid to whom? Like reparations to victims? Are we going to worry about victimless crime? What about crimes that take place outside of the building? Just for shits and giggles, lets say I randomly mug some dude outside the gas n' sip ~~do they even have a gas n' sip in the city? Not relevant Pete...~~ and come back here and someone finds out about it? Am I on trial here?

7. Then we better have a damn good plan to propose, and be prepared to take edits when necessary.

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acatalyst
2010-06-05 02:46 am UTC (link)

The sheriff needs to be an elected office. One person and everyone in the building gets a vote. They need to be skilled somehow, capable. No scared girls or selfish men.

Tribunal is harder, because they need to be chosen for their unbiased natures. Maybe nominations for that one? Cole and I have a list we started, if it helps.

Fines to victims, to the buildings. I think we can't worry about outside crimes, not yet. Eventually, maybe the sheriff can, but now we need to worry about inside. Exceptions: Crimes against residents that take place outside the building - so if I attack you on the street, for example.

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	nylonghorn 2010-06-05 07:20 am UTC (link)
	Any ideas where we should start with that? Nominations are a good idea, but no one is going to be able to be unbiased in every single situation so it should definitely be some kind of a rotating basis. Sounds like a good jumping off point. And definitely if it's tenant on tenant crime outside the building it can still be dealt with here. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	acatalyst 2010-06-05 05:11 pm UTC (link)
	[This one is sent after his forum convo with Rosalie] We should sit down with Cole and talk it through. You're amazingly fucking calming, brother. I know just the place - R1. Big, roomy, unbiased recluse who doesn't give a shit about the building rules. Just don't bring booze. Tonight? Eight? (Reply to this) (Parent)

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