InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Hey Moss-head!"

starwolf_oakley (starwolf_oakley) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-08-13 22:25:00

Entry tags:

char: captain america/steve rogers, char: invisible woman/susan storm, char: punisher/frank castle, creator: ariel olivetti, creator: mark millar, creator: matt fraction, creator: steve mcniven

By request: Captain America beats up the Punisher... and lets him leave.
Upon request from wizardru, here's the CIVIL WAR scene of the Punisher killing two villains right in front of the Secret Avengers. Frank gets a pass on this, even though Cap beats him up and Frank feels he proved something to Cap nevertheless.

Goldbug was a Luke Cage foe obsessed with gold. He also was part of the Bendis SECRET WAR series that never really caught on. The Plunderer was Ka-Zar's brother. However, he re-appeared in MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS #5–6 (March–April 2008), explaining the man who had died was his "American representative."

What's worse: the Punisher killing these two or Captain America willingness to work with them?

An A+ parody of this scene and the rest of CIVIL WAR can be found here:
http://mightygodking.com/index.php/i-dont-need-your-civil-war/
Oddly, the parody seems to have a more in-character Spider-Man than the actual CIVIL WAR story.

Matt Fraction put his own twist on this in PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL #2 and #3.

It is unusual that no one else in the room, given their powers, can do *anything* to stop the Punisher.

The direct order seemed to be regarding lethal force. Of course, that non-lethal force had been against police officers.

I'll pause for a moment to reflect on a line said in a podcast reviewing CIVIL WAR #6. It was either a Marvel podcast or a Marvel-themed podcast, but I remember the line very well.

"Now, the Punisher's crazy. He's a killer. But he's not an idiot."

This is intercut with a flashback to Frank at boot camp, being asked by "Captain America" to hit him. Frank refuses. This is one of the "alternate" Caps, and probably the "Crazy Cap" from the 1950s.

The Punisher is deliberately provoking Captain America. I'm starting to question the "crazy, but not an idiot" idea.

"I got to doin'." As someone said in a review of this issue, Frank Castle isn't Mal Reynolds (from Firefly and Serenity).

Captain America wanted the Punisher on the team to do the dirty work? Well, it's pretty much the same reason they wanted Wolverine in the New Avengers, so it isn't that OOC. Meaning the Punisher is right, although I doubt Cap had "executing villains that want to help out" in mind.

Cap doesn't understand why the Punisher won't fight back. Perhaps a flashback might help:

Scenes of Frank Castle's earlier life often show that he had something wrong with him. It just wasn't "kill all criminals" wrong until his family was murdered.

So... the Punisher killed two super-villains and then let Captain America beat him up just to prove a point? Anyone know the point?

And none of the heroes do anything to stop the Punisher from LEAVING. I usually criticize Spider-Man for doing that, but this was a WHOLE ROOM of superheroes!

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xdoop
2009-08-14 03:42 am UTC (link)

Frank deals with the child rapists, the men who turn women into slaves and sell them, he deals with the nastiest most sour searing things and he is the only person who can

He also deals with goofy supervillains, like killing the Stilt Man and then blowing up the Bar With No Name where the other villains (people like the Gibbon and Princess Python) were paying their respects. Not to mention that if Puma and the Prowler (both superheroes) hadn't left beforehand, they'd have probably been blown up too.

He also shot one of his only friends, Microchip, in the head.

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punishermax
2009-08-14 03:47 am UTC (link)

Well the Bar with no Name Incident solidfies the fact that Frank really gives no shit about the whole Super Villain thing. They're criminals and he deals the same thing he does to criminals.

Microchips death ties into that as well. Frank's world is VERY black and white most of the time. Micro had sold him out to gangsters. If we're talking the same thing (I assume you mean the MAx series) then Frank even gave Micro a chance to leave and not get killed.

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	xdoop 2009-08-14 03:50 am UTC (link)
	So Frank goes after all criminals, regardless of the severity of their crime. You made it sound like he only went after the people who were really really evil. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	punishermax 2009-08-14 03:52 am UTC (link)
	Yeah that's what I was going for. I was implying that Frank generally goes after the street level stuff since he really has no arch villains of his own to go after. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	neuhallidae 2009-08-14 04:13 am UTC (link)
	So, basically, anything you do to screw up, even if it's just having the wrong friends, whether you know their crimes or not, is a death penalty. That's really fucking comforting. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	foxhack 2009-08-14 05:51 am UTC (link)
	Not really. He DOES draw the line somewhere. I'm not exactly where but I don't see him shooting at jaywalkers or people who litter anytime soon. Well, except for that one story... (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	punishermax 2009-08-14 12:08 pm UTC (link)
	MAX covers the line pretty well, he always goes after the big crimes, rape, murder, slavery and such. Drugs he goes after big as well, but that's mainly because it usually funds the other stuff. I don;t recall him ever blowing away some teen for selling pot either. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	lynxara 2009-08-14 03:43 pm UTC (link)
	He wouldn't kill anybody in Riverdale! Frank's not so bad, deep down. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	timemonkey 2009-08-14 03:51 am UTC (link)
	Problem with that is that supervillains can cause a lot more damage than normal criminals. Show you're willing to kill them and they'd crush him, But just like the heroes the villains get crippled to allow his existance. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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