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cyberghostface (cyberghostface) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-07-30 15:14:00

Entry tags:

title: amazing spider-man

Two pages from the upcoming Amazing Spider-Man #601

OH NOES THE TYPICAL PARKER LUCK!!!

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"American Son" was terrible.

box_in_the_box
2009-07-31 12:35 am UTC (link)

Yes, okay, Harry stood up to Norman ... and what happened as a result? NOTHING!!! Norman is still in charge of the Marvel Universe, Lily is still pregnant with Norman's child (and I hate THAT plot development so much that I can't even talk about it without screaming obscenities), Harry is still estranged from Norman, and Harry and Peter ACCOMPLISHED ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF VALUE. Literally EVERYTHING that they did resulted in FAILURE, and Peter doesn't even get the character development points that Harry got for that story arc, because Peter was so useless and unnecessary that HE DIDN'T EVEN NEED TO BE THERE. Oh, wait, at the very end, he made ONE "valuable" contribution, which was to tell Harry not to Kill Norman - except that HE WAS WRONG, BECAUSE NORMAN OSBORN DESERVES TO DIE. Oh, and hey, guess what? Looks like we're going to get YET ANOTHER Harry-gets-addicted storyline now.

And this is what I hate about NuPeter, more than any retcon - he's alternately stupid, selfish, lazy, worthless and weak, to degrees that I can't imagine myself being at my worst (and considering some of the lows I've sunk to in my life, that's saying a lot). He has no motivation and no direction in life, and literally every other character on the cast is more interesting than him, and aside from Norman, damn near every other character on the cast is more HEROIC than him. Harry is now TEN times the hero that Peter has been, in all of the NuSpidey status quo, and considering that Harry STILL, at the end of this arc, made THE MORALLY WRONG CHOICE, that tells you a lot about how much worse Peter is.

I mean, I'm sorry to go CAPS on you like that, but I now utterly despise this character that's calling himself Peter Parker, and "American Son" just supplied one more reason why.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: "American Son" was terrible. arilou_skiff 2009-07-31 12:42 am UTC (link)
	No, murder is wrong. And yes, that includes state-sanctioned murder such as performed by various unethical regimes across the globe. Peter made the right decision. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: "American Son" was terrible.

punishermax
2009-07-31 12:43 am UTC (link)

You seriously wanted PEter to have Harry kill Norman?

That literally goes against absolutly everything the character stands for, that would be WORSE than OMD.

Killing is the morally wrong choice? Jesus Christ dude

No motivation or direction, what are you , his mom? He's in his twenties and he has a job, an apartment, and hmm you know this little super hero thing too.

I really want to know where YOUR Peter Parker came from though.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: "American Son" was terrible. punishermax 2009-07-31 12:44 am UTC (link)
	"Not killing is the morally wrong choice" I meant (Reply to this) (Parent)

box_in_the_box
2009-07-31 01:05 am UTC (link)

The problem is that Norman Osborn has been, at the risk of invoking Godwin, been built up to such a level that he's basically Hitler on a global scale. He's 100-percent pure evil, he deliberately destroys the lives of everyone who even attracts his attention, and thanks to the current Marvel editorial mandates, everyone in the civilian population of the Marvel Universe thinks that he's a greater hero than Captain America.

This is no longer the guy who threw pumpkin bombs, controlled a few gangs and killed Gwen Stacy. This is the guy who IMPREGNATED Gwen Stacy, and Harry's ex-fiancee, and singlehandedly ruined every aspect of Peter and Harry's lives, and now, he's been given full approval from the government, the media and the general public to do exactly the same to the entire world. With just about any other character, I would agree with you - Peter shouldn't kill - but this is basically akin to Doctor Doom becoming emperor of the world, except WORSE, because even DOOM has more sanity and decency than Norman Osborn does anymore. He cannot be redeemed, he cannot be brought to justice under the law (because he IS the law now), and he cannot be allowed to do to the world what he wants to do, because what he wants to do is PURE EVIL.

In this case, killing is the ONLY option, to the point that it would be MORALLY WRONG not to kill Norman Osborn.

As for Peter, he felt so blase about being a superhero after OMD that he quit for three months, and even he admitted that the city didn't miss or need him, so there wasn't really any reason for him to start back up again, especially since he's failed miserably in every single thing that he's tried to accomplish as a superhero, and been defeated by damn near every bad guy he's fought. Also, he's working at a job that's utterly beneath him, and that should have been ditched from his status quo back in the '80s, and the only reason he still has an apartment is because he's freeloading off Michelle, just like he freeloaded off Aunt May at the beginning of BND.

You think this version of Peter is at all mature? I say that even the TEENAGE Peter of ULTIMATE Spider-Man is LIGHT-YEARS more intelligent, motivated and competent at his job than the supposedly "adult" Peter we see here.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

arilou_skiff
2009-07-31 01:10 am UTC (link)

Oh please, Norman isn't anywhere close to Hitler. He's a psycho on a power-trip so busy antagonizing even his allies that he'll go down in flames before you can say "Snikt!Bub!"

He doesen't have the institutional strength or resiliency to cause any serious damage, because even the people who are on *his* side hates his guts.

He is also, to some degree constrained: Unlike your Doom example he has to at least *pretend* to be a good guy (although as shown he isn't that good at it)

Norman is a thug who circumstance brought into position to cause some serious damage: But he can't even control his own *mind* much less his accomplices. He's a joke, a non-starter.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-07-31 01:29 am UTC (link)

He's a joke, a non-starter.

I actually agree, except that this is not how Marvel itself is treating him, since literally every single superhero in the Marvel Universe is saying, "Norman Osborn is in power, AND THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO TO STOP HIM." Really? Nothing? Not even with all of your forces combined? Either that means that Norman has become the Canon Villain Sue that I've accused him of being all along, or else it means that every single superhero in the MU has gotten REALLY dumb. But no dumber than the public, who somehow can't see that Norman is pure evil even when he threatens children with bodily harm at the UN.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

arilou_skiff
2009-07-31 01:35 am UTC (link)

No, that IS how they are treating him. Read the damn books. He can't even control his own teams, he's antagonizing literally EVERYONE, even the people who are supposed to work for him. He's trying to herd giraffes and it's obviously not working out, he's essentially kept afloat by momentum alone.

People aren't doing anything about him mainly because they're still trying to get their bearings. (His villains are trying to plot the way to get rid of him to their best advantage, and the heroes are trying to figure out something similar when they aren't just running for the moment)

Seriously. Read the damn subtext.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-07-31 01:47 am UTC (link)

Under any other Marvel regime, the combined heroes of the Marvel universe would have taken out Norman in an HOUR. I've already read COUNTLESS fan-alternatives that are better than anything that's been written "in the damn books." THERE IS NO EXCUSE for Norman's unseating to take this long. It's never taken ANY of these characters THIS long to "get their bearings" before, and there is no possible way that 4chan or DailyKos or someone on the Internet, or even the mainstream media, wouldn't have outed him as a monster by now, when he's cracking this badly, this close to the cameras. I can believe that a man can fly, but in a world where EVERYONE has an agenda, and EVERY conspiracy theory finds COUNTLESS supporters (ask the "birthers" about Obama), I am inherently incapable of suspending my disbelief enough to accept that NO ONE would have fucked over Norman by now, because it runs counter to human nature.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	arilou_skiff 2009-07-31 01:49 am UTC (link)
	Yes there is an excuse: So they can do all these fun little minis (admittedly some are more fun than others, but that's the way with minis) (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-07-31 01:55 am UTC (link)

So they can do all these fun little minis (admittedly some are more fun than others, but that's the way with minis)

Except that I hate all of those minis, because I hate the status quo that they're based on, because that status quo argues that heroes are stupid and weak, and because Marvel is promoting the view that villains actually make better "heroes" than heroes themselves, precisely because (according to Bendis in his interviews) being EVIL makes them BETTER "heroes." I despise everything that Marvel has become, and every idea about freedom and security that it espouses.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

punishermax
2009-07-31 02:32 am UTC (link)

Stupid and Weak?

The Punisher is basically dismanteling the Hood's crime network.

Deadpool essentially kicked the Thunderbolts asses and publically humilated Norman AND beat a Dark Avenger.

The X-Men are currently ready to take down his Dark X Men and then take San Fransisco.

The New Avengers beat the piss out of The Hood so bad he lost his powers.

The Thunderbolts are beign infiltrated by Nick Fury.

Nick Fury and his Howling Commando's are taking down Hydra and major support for Norman.

Norman is slowly going insane.

Zodiac is killing HAMMER troops left and right.

The Lethal Legion nearly killed Norman.

And finally his American Son program took two shits and died.

Norman is getting his ass kicked daily.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	arilou_skiff 2009-07-31 09:47 am UTC (link)
	But it's not the status quo, it's a temporary aberration. That's been pretty clear. Norman was pretty much intended to last maybe a year or two, at most. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	fredneil.livejournal.com 2009-07-31 03:05 am UTC (link)
	My theory about why Spider-Man hasn't killed Norman yet is because he's afraid he'd enjoy it too much. Every time he hears something about Osborne on the news, he must think, "OK, TODAY is the day I toss him off a bridge," then he tells himself, "calm down, bloodlust is not a good thing." (Reply to this) (Parent)

ashtoreth
2009-07-31 03:46 am UTC (link)

Have you not been paying attention to the institutional changes Osborn has been making? Serial murderers are being given authority and shelter and advice and not just protection, but procurement. Norman has secret labs where innocents are imprisoned and tortured and experimented on. His soldiers are sent to terrorize Norman's defenseless enemies. He has corrupted normal people by having them participate in these acts, and given them legal and moral doubletalk to convince them it isn't evil. Osborn doesn't have Hitler's bodycount, but the writers are stealing from 'It Couldn't Happen Here', which was meant to depict an American version of Hitler.

All his enemies keep saying he won't last, but he's still there and people are still dying. Probably because people don't take him seriously enough to truly work to oppose him. He is 'the little tramp' clown in a Halloween mask.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

punishermax
2009-07-31 01:11 am UTC (link)

Peter's quit being SpiderMan multiple times in the past before this.

And KILLING IS ALWAYS MORALLY WRONG. Do you have any idea the backlash if Peter killed Norman? It would be OMD times a thousand and for good reason.

Norman is nowhere near as bad as you say, Norman is John Wayne Gacy compared to Doom's Hitler and the FF haven't killed him yet.

Spider man killing Norman would be like Cap becoming a Nazi, it's the absolute opposite of who he is.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	box_in_the_box 2009-07-31 01:23 am UTC (link)
	Peter's quit being SpiderMan multiple times in the past before this. Except that he had REASONS before. We STILL don't know why he quit before BND. And KILLING IS ALWAYS MORALLY WRONG. As a former member of the military, I cannot disagree strongly enough. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	punishermax 2009-07-31 01:30 am UTC (link)
	Do you or do you not agree that Spiderman killing Norman would be worse than OMD? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-07-31 01:36 am UTC (link)

Peter killing Norman, if he felt the character-appropriate amount of guilt for it afterwards, could actually result in genuine character growth for him - as he struggled for redemption and his conflicted feelings over saving lives by committing an act that he himself nonetheless considers wrong - something that he's been totally devoid of throughout BND. Plus, it would rid the MU of Norman Osborn, which would be The Ultimate Good.

So, yes, Peter killing Norman would be better, in every possible way, than everything else that's happened in both OMD and BND, all of which have been garbage.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	punishermax 2009-07-31 01:42 am UTC (link)
	So murdering someone in cold blood>dissolution of marriage. Okay then. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	box_in_the_box 2009-07-31 01:52 am UTC (link)
	Murdering the most dangerously evil man on Earth? Depending upon your job - like, say, if you're wearing a UNIFORM - that makes you a goddamn HERO. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	punishermax 2009-07-31 01:54 am UTC (link)
	He isn't the most dangerousman on earth. Did you read the Cabal mini? Both Namor and Doom know he's gonna crack, he's already shown signs of breaking down, Nick Fury is taking him out from the inside AND out and his Dark Avengers are slowly imploding while Sentry slowly grows crazier. He's dead and he just doens't know it already. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)