InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "bollocks"

Doop (xdoop) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-07-23 09:58:00

Entry tags:

char: spider-man/peter parker, creator: ed brubaker, creator: marcos martin, creator: mike mckone, creator: stan lee, publisher: marvel comics, title: amazing spider-man

Amazing Spider-Man #600

In one of the back-up stories, by Stan Lee and Marcos Martin, Spidey is talking about his problems to a beleaguered therapist.

The next page shows the traumatized therapist in therapy himself.

Plus, one of the issue's "Amazing Spider-Man covers you'll never see!"

(Post a new comment)

	xammax 2009-07-23 02:24 pm UTC (link)
	Thank you Stan. (Reply to this)

	halloweenjack 2009-07-23 02:29 pm UTC (link)
	Well, that was pretty funny. Still not buying the book, though. (Reply to this)

	colonel_green 2009-07-23 02:29 pm UTC (link)
	Harry cheerfully wishing he was drunk. Heh. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	kingrockwell 2009-07-23 02:51 pm UTC (link)
	Or on pills! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sherkahn 2009-07-23 03:47 pm UTC (link)
	Or cat urine. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2009-07-23 03:23 pm UTC (link)
	Oh ha! I thought that was norman back there at first. for some reason that one made me laugh more (Reply to this) (Parent)

	thatnickguy 2009-07-23 02:44 pm UTC (link)
	It's kind of funny to see Marvel reference their mistakes so much. Unfortunately, pointing out how ridiculous/stupid said mistakes are just makes the changes all the worse. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	starwolf_oakley 2009-07-23 04:23 pm UTC (link)
	The X-Men made jokes about the complexity of the Summers Family Tree. An issue of the early 300s of UNCANNY had Storm wondering what she was thinking when she had a mohawk and wore black leather. That really wasn't a "mistake," just a rather puzzling time based on a joke picture by Paul Smith (of Storm with a mohawk) mixed with standard Claremont oddities. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	drsevarius 2009-07-23 07:18 pm UTC (link)
	a rather puzzling time based on a joke picture by Paul Smith (of Storm with a mohawk) mixed with standard Claremont oddities. huh? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	*choke* 01d55 2009-07-23 02:50 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, the emoticons of the Golden Age. (Reply to this)

	arilou_skiff 2009-07-23 03:23 pm UTC (link)
	I love the "(Or Bucky?)" thing. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	schmevil 2009-07-23 05:16 pm UTC (link)
	This. Quesada lies. They're all Bucky. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	crinosg 2009-07-23 03:26 pm UTC (link)
	Spidey; so emo it's contagious. I bet his therapist when to write some crappy poetry on Myspace while listening to Linkin park. Congratulations Quesada, you've made Pete the patient zero for an andromeda strain of angst. Hope you're real proud of yourself. (Reply to this)

	sandoz_iscariot 2009-07-23 04:10 pm UTC (link)
	Fuuuck, that first panel breaks my heart. Dammit, Quesada. (Reply to this)

box_in_the_box
2009-07-23 06:41 pm UTC (link)

Translation of the first page: Yes, our continuity is fucked! No, we're not going to explain it!

Yes, I get that it's a joke, but making fun of the fact that the continuity regarding things like Mary Jane's pregnancy simply can't be reconciled, and then, choosing to characterize that very same irreconcilability as literally maddening, is not the way to make the new status quo seem more appealing. Indeed, when you couple this page with the "Dallas" retcon of the marriage retcon in the Spider-Man comic strip - which Stan Lee and Roy Thomas claimed on-panel was the result of overwhelming reader demand for the restoration of the marriage, even though they'd always planned for the marriage retcon to be temporary in the comic strip - it's hard not to see this as a Take That to the current Marvel regime from Stan Lee.

Translation of the second page: HA HA HA PETER ALWAYS LOVED GWEN AND NOT MARY JANE, MARY JANE NEVER LOVED PETER, AND EVEN AFTER EVERYTHING ELSE HAS BEEN RETCONNED, "SINS PAST" IS STILL IN CONTINUITY!!! ISN'T IT FUNNY???

For as much as the current Marvel regime bemoans the fans, like me, who refuse to stop complaining about their retcons and editorial mandates, they really do go out of their way to antagonize us, even though there's no discernible benefit in doing so, since even a lot of supporters of the new status quo have rolled their eyes and expressed the desire to see Marvel move past this shit. Scabs do not heal if you keep picking at them.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	arilou_skiff 2009-07-23 08:40 pm UTC (link)
	To be honest, the pregnancy thing was already snafued long before Quesada came along. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-07-23 08:50 pm UTC (link)

There are still degrees of fucked-upness, though. :)

It's pretty fucked-up to say, "Oh, no, Alison Mongraine kidnapped AUNT May, not BABY May," I'll agree.

But it's a quantum leap BEYOND of fucked-up to say, "Hey, you know Mary Jane's pregnancy, which was pretty much a central driving plot point for the Clone Saga, which we've chosen NOW of all times to start referencing heavily again? Yeah, well that pregnancy NEVER EVEN HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE."

(Reply to this) (Parent)

angelophile
2009-07-23 09:33 pm UTC (link)

"For as much as the current Marvel regime bemoans the fans, like me, who refuse to stop complaining about their retcons and editorial mandates, they really do go out of their way to antagonize us, even though there's no discernible benefit in doing so, since even a lot of supporters of the new status quo have rolled their eyes and expressed the desire to see Marvel move past this shit. Scabs do not heal if you keep picking at them."

This. Seriously. Those associated with Spider-man at Marvel do seem to be like people who poke a dog repeatedly with a stick and then express shock and disappointment when it turns around and bites them.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

stolisomancer
2009-07-23 11:53 pm UTC (link)

It's because they know that a big chunk of their readership are going to complain violently about any goddamn thing they do, but they'll still keep buying the book.

Meanwhile, whenever they actually try new things - new characters, changing the old ones, new stories, non-superhero work - they're punished for it even if the books thusly produced are good. Quesada started out his run at Marvel as a very experimental EIC - Morrison's X-Men, the Tsunami line, a move towards pulp-style adventure and away from express superheroics - and almost none of it worked. Their fans demand new things, but not too new; they want everything to stay the same, but complain about reversed deaths and retcons.

I'm not sure I would deliberately antagonize the fanbase to this extent, but good Lord I know why he's doing it. The biggest problem comics have today are half the people reading comics.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	unknownscribler 2009-07-24 08:36 am UTC (link)
	Part of the key is speed -- change, but at a pace it can be adapted to. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	darkknightjrk 2009-07-23 06:46 pm UTC (link)
	Wow--and I thought the "Shame of the Spider-Son" was hilarious. "Man, sure wish I wasn't sober!" You and me both, Harry. You and me both. (Reply to this)

	greenmask 2009-07-23 07:24 pm UTC (link)
	BOOOOOOOOOOO. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	box_in_the_box 2009-07-23 07:50 pm UTC (link)
	Never has your icon's facial expression been more appropriate. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	greenmask 2009-07-23 07:55 pm UTC (link)
	This one and my LJ version both: http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/71190087/13328750 (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

fredneil.livejournal.com
2009-07-23 08:30 pm UTC (link)

Look on the bright side. That cover can be read as "Quesada is stopping us from undoing this stuff, so as soon as he's not in charge, it's all gone."

There are three ways of looking at that.
1. When the king lets his subjects mock him, it means he's secure about his power.
2. Even Marvel knows that Sins Past and OMD were mistakes that should be undone.
3. It's just a joke. We should all lighten up and not take these things too seriously.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

box_in_the_box
2009-07-23 09:02 pm UTC (link)

We should all lighten up and not take these things too seriously.

The only problem I have with this, as somebody who admittedly DOES take these things WAY too seriously, one is that it basically holds the audience to a higher standard than the people who are asking to be paid for producing this stuff, because the only reason these retcons and editorial mandates came about in the first place is because Quesada, a former fan himself, decided that a married Spider-Man was such a SERIOUS BUSINESS problem with the character that he's gotten into full-on FLAME WARS with fans over it for the past DECADE, and he undid 20 years of published stories because he couldn't let go of the idea that the character should be how HE remembers him being, even though sales and readership have both plummeted as a result.

Yes, I rant and rave and bitch and moan over the new status quo, but Quesada was the one who justified the new status quo by using his mother's death from cancer as a means of "winning" the argument.

You don't get to pull the My Mom Is Dead From Cancer So I Get To Do What I Want To Mary Jane card, and THEN accuse the FANS of being the ones who need to "lighten up."

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

fredneil.livejournal.com
2009-07-23 09:54 pm UTC (link)

My mom is fine and hopefully will be for many years to come.

I don't really think he was doing that so much as using the story to justify Mary Jane's actions in OMD and, to be honest, if my mother had died, that would be at the forefront of my mind whenever I was looking for a story that could illustrate a point. It's still a pretty weak comparison.

Still, it really is a more serious business to him than it is to the average fan. It's our hobby and, at the end of the day, we can always just walk away if we get so disgusted at what's happening. It's his livelihood. It seems he's not very good at it, but he still is going to want to sell comic books and if he can't do that, at least defend his decisions against detractors so he loses as few readers as possible. That's really all it is. He thought a single Spider-Man would sell better than a married Spider-Man. It didn't work out that way, so he tried spinning it so that some of the audience might say "hey, that wasn't such a bad idea after all." My guess is that it was a stalling trick, they were considering bringing back the marriage when sales got bad, but they were waiting until a decent amount of time had passed so they wouldn't look foolish and turn more people off. (If they had brought back the marriage after a few months, some people would have been happy, but others would have rolled their eyes at Marvel having a major event and undoing it right away.)

I'm with you in that between Sins Past and OMD It seemed like he was trying to push people's buttons, but few people deliberately try to be awful at their jobs.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	greenmask 2009-07-23 10:15 pm UTC (link)
	Few people. But some people. :/ But besides that, more than few people are bad at their jobs because they refuse to listen to sense or learn from their mistakes and that, really, is their fault. I'm not sure if that directly applies here because I am sleepy and have a headache, but nevertheless.. it is true! :x (Reply to this) (Parent)

Speaking of Gwen and Normie...

silverzeo
2009-07-24 01:56 am UTC (link)

What ever happy to their love-kids from "Sins of the Past?" The ones that Gwen gave birth to before she died and they rapidly age into teenagers in '5-years' or something like that and that was the only story from OMD that WASN'T retcon when it should? With all the talk about "Goblin Prince" you think Norman would look up he lethal twins, or is he just a big jerk to leave them in the middle of nowhere?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Speaking of Gwen and Normie... ashtoreth 2009-07-26 07:14 am UTC (link)
	They were aging too fast and dying, supposedly. However, in the American Son storyline, we see a blond male body in a tube with the last name, 'Stacy'. And Norman mentions that the serum he gives to Harry has been tested. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	Re: Speaking of Gwen and Normie... fredneil.livejournal.com 2009-07-26 09:29 pm UTC (link)
	But Gabriel wasn't blond. Maybe Capt. Stacy didn't really die and Norman tested a formula on him and it not only healed him, it de-aged him, too. I should probably stop making jokes like that. Someone from Marvel might read them and think "hey, that's not a bad idea." (Reply to this) (Parent)

	superfan1 2009-07-24 02:54 am UTC (link)
	Is it wrong to want to give harry a big hug and cuddle him, while telling him everything going to be all right? (Reply to this)

	zegim 2009-07-24 04:57 am UTC (link)
	And that's (the whole short story) why I like Stan Lee so much. (Reply to this)

	magnetic_regina 2009-07-24 05:57 am UTC (link)
	Damnit. Now I need to buy this just for Harry wishing he wasn't sober. (Reply to this)