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espanolbot (espanolbot) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-07-17 22:48:00

Entry tags:

char: death of the endless, title: ambush bug, title: lucifer, title: madame xanadu

As Blackest Night starts week I thought I'd post these cameos of everyone's favourite Goth
Possibly NSFW due to Ken Dollish nudity.

Firstly, from Lucifer, where Death comes to observe after he is sent as close to dying he can by a magical tarot pack called Basanos,

Later,

He is then brought back to life by the timely intervention of his niece, Elaine, who is the daughter of his brother the archangel Michael.

Note the comparision here to how she was with Lucifer,

I have Death's appearence in Lobo around somewhere, but until I, or someone else, posts it, here's her cameo in Ambush Bug, which sadly seems to have even more resonance now then back in 1992 or when it was published,

And here is her most recent appearence (I think) in the current Madame Xanadu series.

Madame X is in prison, and her immortality running out, she is rapidly aging to death.

Out of desperation, she performs what seems to be the same ritual they tried at the beginning of the Sandman series,

Xanadu askes that she be allowed to perform Death's card reading in exchange for not dying, and out of amusement Death agrees,

And here's the artwork from the above Lucifer issue, 'cause it's pretty,

Will possibly post her appearence in Books of Magic at some point in the future, depending on whether my photobucket bandwidth doesn't decide to go tits up.

Anyway, here's the thing.

Although I know that the current (kind of stupid) mandate between Vertigo and DC is that characters can't cross over anymore, I'd... Like it so that when characters like the Dibnys die, they have this particular anthropomorphic personification there waiting for them.

Not the Black Racer. Not Black Flash. Not Nekron. Just... Death.

Personally, I think that life in the DCU must be scary enough with the possiblity of that lot coming after you.

Anyway, here's to Death of the Endless, the joint first nicest personification of death after this guy,

From the Soul Music cartoon from the early 90s,

(Post a new comment)

	volksjager 2009-07-17 10:37 pm UTC (link)
	When was the "no crossovrs" rule put into effect ? (Reply to this) (Thread)

espanolbot
2009-07-17 10:41 pm UTC (link)

Late 90s I think.

Prior to that you have Dream of the Endless showing up in JLA, and Constantine appearing in the background of things like Underworld Unleashed and Hal Jordan's funeral.

Now they can reference things but not directly have them appearing.

So they can reference the Endless, Swamp Thing and the events of the Lucifer comic at the beginning of the Day of Vengence tie-in, but they can't actually show up.

Though Kid Devil was shown to be reading a Hellblazer comic in Teen Titans at some point.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	volksjager 2009-07-17 10:43 pm UTC (link)
	This is something Official ? do you have a source ? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	espanolbot 2009-07-17 11:26 pm UTC (link)
	It is official, though I'm afraid that I don't have an exact source. It's just something that's appeared in interviews with Didio and stuff over in his Newsarama talks. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	volksjager 2009-07-18 12:15 am UTC (link)
	I doubt it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	espanolbot 2009-07-18 12:29 am UTC (link)
	Don't believe me if you want, but that's the case. (Reply to this) (Parent)

statham1986
2009-07-18 08:26 am UTC (link)

Actually, it was a talking point at a Convention or two in recent years. Vertigo, despite being a division of DC, isn't obliged to give back any characters they've used from DC - Like Swamp Thing. Also, the general nature of some of the Vertigo books seems to render crossovers and the like undoable.

But yeah. The head of Vertigo, Karen Berger, I think, I don't really know, generally seems to play hardball with the stuff Vertigo's got. She won't give Swamp Thing back at all.

So crossovers are officially unlikely at best, although I think in the case of taking prominent DC characters like Xanadu and the Phantom Stranger, it's considered out of DC continuity.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	aulayan 2009-07-18 12:30 pm UTC (link)
	You can doubt, but back in the early 2000s, it was a big deal when Daniel/Dream showed up in JSA, because of the "Thou Shalt Not Use Our Characters Rule" Basically. Vertigo has said "You can't use our characters" and Vertigo is slowly stealing more and more characters from DC. It takes a lot of begging to get any of them back. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	interrobamf 2009-07-18 12:27 am UTC (link)
	Although Dream appeared in JSA. I think the deal was that Vertigo would get Madame Xandau in exchange. When did Day of Vengeance reference Lucifer? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	espanolbot 2009-07-18 12:31 am UTC (link)
	All things fair. And it technically wasn't an appearence the last time we saw Dream/Daniel as it didn't really say who he was, or something. Just a shining doorway. Obvious who it is if you've followed the characters, though not necessarily the same as him showing up and interacting with the characters like he did in JLA. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

interrobamf
2009-07-18 01:19 am UTC (link)

It wasn't just a doorway. We saw Daniel. There was an appearance before that where he basically told Per Degaton to fuck off and leave his parents alone, but that was as an nondescript red portal thingy.

And since your other comment was deleted, what specifically did the Day of Vengeance TPB say about Lucifer? I already used Lucifer to explain some events in the crossover, but I surprised that's actually the case.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	neuhallidae 2009-07-18 12:35 am UTC (link)
	IIRC, Dream's last JSA appearance was considered a special one-off thing due to the characters involved and there was a lot of permission-getting going around. DC's usually been trying to keep things separate between them and their little brother company since around '93. I could be wrong, though. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	btravage.livejournal.com 2009-07-17 10:53 pm UTC (link)
	I like this look for Madame Xanadu, I hope she remains old. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	ghosty732 2009-07-17 11:05 pm UTC (link)
	Spoilers: She quickly does not. This was set in the past, and she is clearly young in our present. I love that story, though. And the art: so simple. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mullon 2009-07-17 11:11 pm UTC (link)
	I hope they remember her for Blackest Night, but don't try to usurp or supplant her. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	espanolbot 2009-07-17 11:23 pm UTC (link)
	Apparently there are hints that it's meant to be this guy, who (admittedly) is a Green Lantern villain and he debuted prior to her. Still want Our Favourite Goth though. pout (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	btravage.livejournal.com 2009-07-18 02:10 am UTC (link)
	I don't get why Gaimon insists so much on Death being a distinct entity from guys like Nekron or the Black Racer. (Reply to this) (Parent)

psychop_rex
2009-07-18 06:09 am UTC (link)

I dunno - 'Lord of the Unliving' is a pretty nebulous position. It doesn't say that he IS Death, necessarily; just that he controls the dead - and far from all of the dead, either, since Hell seems to be a pretty prominent part of the DCU, and we've never seen him controlling any of the souls there. Anyway, if he WAS Death personified, why would he have villainous ambitions? Death has no ambitions; Death just does his/her/its job.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	bruinsfan 2009-07-19 04:06 am UTC (link)
	There was a Captain Atom issue in the 80s in which Gaiman's Death explained that Nekron was death personified as a cosmic enemy, while the Black Racer was death as inevitability and she herself was death as a merciful release. All sort of different facets of the same thing. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-07-19 06:50 am UTC (link)

Hurrm. Well, that smacks of revisionism to me, since 'Sandman' says more-or-less outright, if I recall, that while people saw Dream and his brethren (among which is Death) in all sorts of different ways (J'onn, for example, sees Dream as a legendary Martian god of nightmares), they were all just the same set of entities seen in different ways. Separate versions of Death would seem to contradict that - besides, I would think that the personification of Death would count as a cosmic being in any case.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

espanolbot
2009-07-19 12:10 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, Gaiman apparently got annoyed that they had contradicted the Sandman series as he was still writing it at the time, and Death's speech in the Element Girl story was meant to clarify it.

The one where she said that she represented the death of everything from bacteria to crystalline beings on a planet orbiting a dead star, for example.

Though some people still seem to claim that this was him throwing a hissy fit, but really how can you write an ongoing series while someone else is making up their own stuff about your characters in another book without telling you first.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-07-19 08:26 pm UTC (link)
	Right. I say, ignore revisionism except when it actually clarifies; this obfuscates instead. Stick to what the original writer said, unless he's an idiot which Neil is not. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sd_mouser 2009-07-18 12:05 am UTC (link)
	Wagons explode on impact? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	bariman1987 2009-07-18 03:39 am UTC (link)
	Every car is a Pinto, even ones that don't have combustion engines. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

xandertarbert
2009-07-18 05:40 am UTC (link)

I'm going by memory, so this isn't an exact quote from Soul Music.

"The carriage crashed on the rocks below and the oil lamps ignited, bursting it into flames. And, because some things have to happen, even in a tragedy, a wheel rolls out from the wreckage."

I might clean this up later when I'm back at home with my books. But because it's not right, here's a bonus quote from Hogfather!

'All right,' said Susan. 'I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."
"REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE"
'Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little- "
"YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES"
'So we can believe the big ones?"
"YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING"
'They're not the same at all!"
"YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET-- "
Death waved a hand. "AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME... SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED"
'Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point---"
"MY POINT EXACTLY"

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-07-18 06:15 am UTC (link)
	One of the things I like about the Discworld books is that they're so unexpectedly profound. I mean, you have pages and pages of oddball humor and off-the-wall situations and characters - and then you have moments like these. It's an interesting mixture - I don't think I've come across any other books that combine humor and philosophy in that precise way. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	faile_neume 2009-07-18 07:03 am UTC (link)
	I love that quote so much <33333 I have a book of Pratchett quotes and it's full of amazing and funny and profound words that never cease to amaze me. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	leikomgwtfbbq 2009-07-18 03:45 am UTC (link)
	It's ~~a little~~ a lot weird to want to go and hug Death, but that's always what I want to do when I see Endless-Death OR Pratchett-Death. They're just neat. :D (Reply to this) (Thread)

	xandertarbert 2009-07-18 05:42 am UTC (link)
	Terry Pratchett says he gets a lot of mail from people going to die, and hoping his Death is the one they meet. It makes him stare at a wall for a while. (Reply to this) (Parent)

ashtoreth
2009-07-18 04:03 am UTC (link)

You know, I've been wondering when Death changed. Gaiman showed a character progression; in Endless Nights, she was melodramatic and into ballgowns and a little sadistic and depressed. Nobody liked her or wanted her around.

Modern times, she is perky and philosophical and even cheery about what she offers. It would make sense that Xanadu, a master of symbolic magic, offered Death a choice: be the feared End of Life that she'd always been, or take on the new meaning that Xanadu described. She literally bargained for immortality in exchange for a paradigm shift.

(Reply to this)

	silverzeo 2009-07-18 04:12 am UTC (link)
	Please tell me seeing going to be in Blackest Night. I hope so as much as Tana Moon as a Black Lantern. (Reply to this)

	psychop_rex 2009-07-18 06:18 am UTC (link)
	I call foul - my favorite goth is Lydia Deetz from 'Beetlejuice'. Still, nice to see what Death's been up to lately. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	jarodrussell 2009-07-18 06:11 pm UTC (link)
	Foul here too. There's no Abby in these posts. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-07-18 09:16 pm UTC (link)
	ponders 'Abby'? Who's Abby? I don't think I've heard of her. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	jarodrussell 2009-07-18 09:28 pm UTC (link)
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abby_Sciuto (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	psychop_rex 2009-07-18 09:30 pm UTC (link)
	Ah. That would explain it; never seen that show. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	red_cyclone 2009-07-18 08:26 am UTC (link)
	Oh Elaine :( That bit where she dies always makes me so sad, depite how mature she is in most ways the way she is acting there always reminds me she is just a child still, at least at that point. (Reply to this)

	ex_menagerie993 2009-07-18 08:58 pm UTC (link)
	Have to say, whenever I kick the bucket, I hope there's a cute perky goth chick at the end of the tunnel. It'd damn well make my day I think. (Reply to this)

	ex_menagerie993 2009-07-18 09:00 pm UTC (link)
	Also, I hate the whole no crossover thing DC and Vertigo have. I'd love to see Donna Troy and Death have a talk. I realize a lot of things don't work as well if the two universes are combined (Blackest Night? Yea that might get odd), but still, these sort of things would be nice once and awhile. (Reply to this) (Thread)

psychop_rex
2009-07-18 09:25 pm UTC (link)

Frankly, I don't see how they CAN'T crossover - most of their characters come from mainstream DC. Swamp Thing? Check. Shade, the Changing Man? Check. John Constantine? Check; came over with Swamp Thing. Angel and the Ape? Check. Black Orchid? Check. And so on, and so forth. Even in 'Sandman', which, of all of them, works best in its own universe, has cameos from regular DCU characters like Dr. Destiny, Mr. Miracle, and J'onn J'onnz, not to mention the original Wesley Dodds Sandman, who in revised continuity got his prophetic dreams from the captured Dream. Why not simply have Vertigo be the darker side of the DCU? It'd make much more sense.

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espanolbot
2009-07-18 09:30 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, Sandman Mystery Theatre (and the sequel Sleep of Reason) are connected to James Robinson's Starman, Robinson's JSA and Gaiman's Sandman, so ignoring it would be more than slightly stupid.

However, it could be argued that DC is becoming it's own more... mature variant (in terms of violence it certainly is, being able to show most things in terms of nudity, but with some of the swearing censored).

Especially when they appear to use rejects from the Hellblazer comics, like that poop-eating dead-baby monster from Countdown.

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psychop_rex
2009-07-18 09:40 pm UTC (link)

Fine, then; how about this - the ALTERNATIVE side of the DCU. The counter-cultural aspect. The parts with the Goths and freaky tattooed people and occult bookstores. The side of the DCU that pretty much ignores all the flash-bang-boom of the mainstream, that hangs out in dimly-lit bars, smokes cigarettes out on the sidewalk, gets piercings in odd places, and attends poetry readings. If the regular DCU is New York and Tokyo and LA, Vertigo is San Francisco and Paris and Berlin.

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