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Tweak says, "Scars can come in useful"

arbre_rieur (arbre_rieur) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-07-11 03:54:00

Entry tags:

creator: bill willingham, creator: gilbert hernandez, creator: matthew sturges, publisher: vertigo comics, title: house of mystery

House of Mystery #14: "Maidenhead"

And that's how she wound up at the inter-dimensional watering hole that is the House of Mystery.

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	jkcarrier 2009-07-11 01:19 pm UTC (link)
	I didn't know that Gilbert H. had worked on that book. Kind of weird to see his stuff colored in that style, but it doesn't look bad. (Reply to this)

	foxhack 2009-07-11 01:45 pm UTC (link)
	I think I'm missing something here. Something that isn't so blatantly obvious. (Reply to this)

	greenmask 2009-07-11 01:47 pm UTC (link)
	I need more. (Reply to this)

	besamim 2009-07-11 04:09 pm UTC (link)
	Hm. Well, I'd probably need to read the whole story to have the ending make any sense. Why do they both suddenly transform into werewolves? But I do love Gilbert Hernandez's art (when he's not drawing nude women with grotesquely oversized boobs), and having never seen it in colour before, I think it looks great. (Reply to this) (Thread)

fungo_squiggly
2009-07-11 04:20 pm UTC (link)

There are some clues as the story goes along: "guttercub," "blue gray wolf would take me up by the scruff," "it felt like the change, like being alone with a man while in season."

They didn't just suddenly turn into werewolves. They were always werewolves, along with the rest of the Qobusun. Presumably that's part of why the Sinti are so hostile to them.

(And if this was that one episode of the old Ghostbusters cartoon, the Sinti themselves would be vampires.)

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	crinosg 2009-07-11 05:05 pm UTC (link)
	And it would end with a big fight with all the vampires and werewolves constantly turning each other into more werewolves/vampires with their bites until no one knew who was who. I vaguely remember that episode; The ending at least. (Reply to this) (Parent)

arbre_rieur
2009-07-12 03:13 am UTC (link)

While it's never stated to be the case, my impression from reading the whole issue was that the Sinti were werewolves, too. The Qobusun consider themselves descendants of the Blue-Gray Wolf's middle son (of three sons), which I inferred to mean that the Sinti thought of themselves as the descendants of another son. It would parallel the real world if they worshipped the same god, certainly.

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	fungo_squiggly 2009-07-11 04:13 pm UTC (link)
	Wow, this looks pretty good. I didn't see the werewolf thing coming at all until the end of it, but looking back, the clues are there. It's funny that the Sinti guards let a female werewolf go by, but shot the male one. I guess maybe it's another reflection on how female suicide bombers can slip through more easily? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	jlbarnett 2009-07-11 05:43 pm UTC (link)
	it might be a sign that the other side isn't as bad as the werewolves are making them out to be. When they see a female werewolf being chased agressively by a male werewolf they react as they would to an ordinary woman being chased by an ordinary man. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	fungo_squiggly 2009-07-11 06:00 pm UTC (link)
	I'd say shooting him dead right away was excessive (unless they weren't using silver bullets and so the shots we see aren't lethal?), but your point still stands. I like how neither side is presented as totally good or totally evil. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kamino_neko 2009-07-11 08:11 pm UTC (link)
	In the actual book, it wasn't a surprise - she turned in the first couple pages - which is why she was disgraced and sent to live with the old man (a male thief had come in as she changed, and since the change came with being 'in season', they copulated). (Reply to this) (Parent)

	houbanaut 2009-07-11 04:35 pm UTC (link)
	Bill Willingham doing a completely fair and balanced allegory of the Israel-Palestine conflict, I see. :\| (Reply to this) (Thread)

	daningram 2009-07-11 05:01 pm UTC (link)
	What exactly was unfair? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kaetepixie 2009-07-11 05:35 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, I'm wondering that too. He didn't exactly make out either side to be the "good" side here. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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besamim, 2009-07-11 05:44 pm UTC

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mugiwara, 2009-07-11 06:46 pm UTC

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greenmask, 2009-07-11 07:31 pm UTC

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flidgetjerome, 2009-07-11 09:00 pm UTC

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greenmask, 2009-07-11 09:02 pm UTC

	flidgetjerome 2009-07-11 06:56 pm UTC (link)
	The Sinti is so clean and nice and even though a kid spits at her she feels all the hate drain out of her! Yeah, that's not biased at all. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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greenmask, 2009-07-11 07:36 pm UTC

	khamelea 2009-07-11 07:08 pm UTC (link)
	Werewolves. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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fungo_squiggly, 2009-07-11 07:21 pm UTC

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khamelea, 2009-07-11 07:25 pm UTC

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dorksidefiker, 2009-07-11 09:28 pm UTC

where to start

pervymax
2009-07-12 02:02 am UTC (link)

the occupied side are a bunch of child molesting nutjobs who indoctrinate their children into hate & suicide bombings and are really monsters on the inside anyway, and the occupying side are a bunch of soldiers, mothers, and pretty children who's worst crimes are on the level of forgivable tantrums thrown by little girls.

On Yey: no bias there.

For more on casual racism against people of color, see here(http://www.reelbadarabs.com/)

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: where to start -

psychop_rex, 2009-07-12 07:12 am UTC

Re: where to start -

pervymax, 2009-07-12 01:24 pm UTC

Re: where to start -

psychop_rex, 2009-07-12 09:51 pm UTC

Re: where to start -

pervymax, 2009-07-12 11:18 pm UTC

Re: where to start -

psychop_rex, 2009-07-13 12:05 am UTC

Re: where to start -

pervymax, 2009-07-13 02:34 am UTC

Re: where to start -

psychop_rex, 2009-07-13 10:23 am UTC

	ian_karkull 2009-07-11 05:39 pm UTC (link)
	I dislike Willingham's ludicrous little propaganda pieces as much as the next person, but this may have been tagged wrongly. As far as I'm aware, Sturges writes House Of Mystery all by himself and he has never given any indication of a political opinion, one way or another. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

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suzene, 2009-07-11 06:33 pm UTC

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kamino_neko, 2009-07-11 08:19 pm UTC

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arbre_rieur, 2009-07-12 03:16 am UTC

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kamino_neko, 2009-07-12 03:39 am UTC

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ex_menagerie993, 2009-07-13 02:56 pm UTC

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kamino_neko, 2009-07-13 03:04 pm UTC

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ian_karkull, 2009-07-11 10:07 pm UTC

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ex_menagerie993, 2009-07-13 02:58 pm UTC

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ian_karkull, 2009-07-14 10:21 pm UTC

	I know pervymax 2009-07-12 02:06 am UTC (link)
	But how sad is it that I'm used this sort of thing on a casual basis? I can't even muster up the energy to get into a huff about it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: I know -

ashtoreth, 2009-07-12 07:05 am UTC

My thoughts...
(Anonymous)
2009-07-12 06:45 am UTC (link)

Though of course any story is open to a number of interpretations, I thought I'd post my own thoughts on the story and why I wrote it (it was indeed me and not Bill Willingham). To explain a story is to rob it of some of its power, but I thought some of you might be interested in my take. Also, it's one that's near and dear to my heart.

As you may have noticed, the entire story wasn't posted (due to the rules, I assume -- and by all means, go buy the issue to read the whole thing in context). What you missed was the part where Rina (the protagonist) is unintentionally deflowerd by a burglar who enters her house at the time when Rina has been left alone to celebrate her incipient womanhood. The allegory is fairly obvious; Rina's innocence has been violently stripped from her, though partially due to the demands of her own werewolf (for which read: human) instincts. Lycanthropy here, as is usually the case, is symbolic of the animal nature of the unconscious.

The qobusun (which is the Mongolian word for werewolf) here loosely if obviously represent Palestine, and the Sinti (which is an alternate term for "gypsy", by the way) loosely represent the Israelis, as is also fairly obvious, though I chose to place the story in an alternate world for universality's sake. Anyone who reads it is bound to project their own feelings about the Israeli/Palestine conflict into it, and that's fine; what we take away from art always depends in a large degree on what we bring to it.

The narrative, however, has no interest in whether either side is "in the right." I was confused by the accusation of racism; to argue that the intent of the narrative is racist requires the reader to ignore the fact that the main defining characteristic of the Sinti is their rather obvious and banal racism. To me, in fact, the little girl spitting is the most unkindest cut of all, as it shows that she has been taught to hate with as brutal a nonchalance as humanity can muster. We are ALL monsters on the inside; it's just that the Sinti have the luxury of not being forced to externalize it.

Rina, though, expresses no political convictions whatsoever. All she wants is to made whole again, to reconcile the animal with the human and thus regain her purity, which is why the story is called "Maidenhead" and not something else. What Rina discovers, however, is that what she wants is, of course, impossible. Rina was never truly "innocent"; a truth that her mirror, the girl in the shopping mall, demonstrates. And she was never truly defiled, either; that's a condition that is ascribed to her by others -- first by her father, then by the old man, then by her lover -- all to suit their own agendas.

What I'm trying to elucidate in the story is my belief that the loss of innocence is a simply a consequence of living in the world. The rose comes with the thorn built in. To live is to bleed and to draw blood. This is just how life works.

As a side note, "Maidenhead" was inspired by a story I heard on NPR, about a Palestinian girl who had been convinced by her boyfriend to become a suicide bomber, but when it came time to do the deed, found herself unable. I wanted to know more about that girl, and that's where the character of Rina came from.

--Matt Sturges

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: My thoughts...

houbanaut
2009-07-12 06:12 pm UTC (link)

Thanks for your response, Matt. Cool to see you here!

I will freely admit that I jumped the gun on the accusation of bias. I didn't read the excerpt carefully before posting--just saw the bits with Palestinians as suicide-bombing werewolves consumed by hate--and knowing Willingham's position on the issue (and assuming him to be the author) I jumped to a conclusion that didn't take all the information into account. As you say, the qobusun are shown to be genuinely oppressed and victims of sinti racism and violence, so their hate is based in real grievances.

I do still think that the portrayal of the qobusun (at least in this excerpt) presents a pretty one-dimensional, negative stereotype of Arabs. No one could deny that girls being ostracized for having lost their virginity, partriarchal sexual abuse, and suicide bombings do occur in the Arab world, but all media portrayals always seem to focus selectively on these negative aspects. And from what I read of your story, qobusun society didn't seem to have many other notable characteristics.

It would be refreshing for once to see a Palestinian character who was not a suicide bomber.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: My thoughts... -

aaron_bourque, 2009-07-12 06:57 pm UTC

Re: My thoughts... -

houbanaut, 2009-07-12 07:38 pm UTC

Re: My thoughts... -

pervymax, 2009-07-13 02:37 am UTC

Re: My thoughts...

aaron_bourque
2009-07-12 07:03 pm UTC (link)

Well, I, for one, appreciate your comment. It's sometimes really easy to jump the gun with charges of racism, sexism, etc., especially for people who are of races, sexes, etc., but sometimes fandom can get there quicker than anyone. To me, this is partly because fandom always likes to present itself as open and inclusive (or at least, to champion inclusiveness), and when creators of what the fans gravitate towards do something that seems exclusive, whether it is or not, fans can be a bit oversensitive.

Not that they're always wrong . . . but in this case, yes. I mean, the first commenter to say anything negative with regards to the allegory admitted he hadn't read the whole post!

Talk about jumping the gun . . .

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: My thoughts... -

houbanaut, 2009-07-12 07:46 pm UTC

	Re: My thoughts... pervymax 2009-07-13 02:40 am UTC (link)
	Mr. Sturges, Thanks for writing. I appreciate that you took the time and care to respond. I do, however, still take issue with some of the implicit assumptions in the story, and some of the portrayals. If you're inclined, I'd like to ask you about some of those. If not, no worries :-) best, M (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: My thoughts... - (Anonymous), 2009-07-14 11:40 pm UTC

Re: My thoughts... -

pervymax, 2009-09-08 11:15 am UTC

	leikomgwtfbbq 2009-07-12 11:22 pm UTC (link)
	I love House of Mystery. We need more posted. :D (Reply to this)

	pervymax 2009-09-08 11:08 am UTC (link)
	Oh God! This again? It's already been posted. (Reply to this)