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Tweak says, "I poked a badger with a spoon."

heartless guttersnipe (parsimonia) wrote in scans_daily,
@ 2009-07-01 12:39:00

Entry tags:

char: alfred pennyworth, char: lucius fox, char: robin/red robin/tim drake, publisher: dc comics, title: red robin

The Source has a preview for Red Robin #2 up
The preview is here via the Source/DCU blog

Oh, Alfred. ♥

I have been wondering what will become of Bruce's role with Wayne Enterprises in his absence. Oddly enough, I can see Tim being more suited to that sort of thing than Dick, so it'll be interesting to see what Lucius is up to here.

I have to say, I think this is going to be one Bat-book that I'll definitely be sticking with. I like the fact that Yost is picking up with supporting characters that were in Robin before it was cancelled, like Jamie Harper and Jason Bard. Annnnd of course, our gal Spoiler is likely to make an appearance in this issue, given that she's on the cover.

(Post a new comment)

	thanekos 2009-07-01 05:20 pm UTC (link)
	" He said we could try. " a villain with realistic projections of his minion's successes at killing a given target? impressive. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	taggerung301 2009-07-01 05:40 pm UTC (link)
	haha, it's a pretty good line (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mysteryfan 2009-07-01 05:32 pm UTC (link)
	Agreed on seeing Tim as very well suited to running Wayne Enterprises in Bruce's absence. That could be very fun to watch. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	mysteryfan 2009-07-01 06:02 pm UTC (link)
	But by that, I mean when he's older. He's a little young to run a company right now. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	parsimonia 2009-07-01 06:44 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, it's true. Maybe he'll just start working for the company. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sistermagpie 2009-07-01 06:49 pm UTC (link)
	Dick and Tim are kind of alternate stereotypes of business execs if they were older, actually. Tim's more the Bill Gates model; Dick's the wheeler-dealer gambler. If they were running a company together they'd take over the world. It would be scary. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

parsimonia
2009-07-01 06:56 pm UTC (link)

Wow, yeah, it's true. It's interesting that they reflect aspects of Bruce that he was never really able to indulge in. I think it was someone around these parts said that in a way Dick is the happy fun-loving guy who can enjoy the spotlight, the kind of person Bruce Wayne pretends to be in public. Whereas if Tim were to go to school for computer science, engineering or business (or criminology), I can see him being extremely successful in whatever he pursued, be it academia or business. He could be an inventor like Ted Kord but with steadier business skills. And if Bruce hadn't directed all his energy into becoming Batman when he was that age, that is what he could've been, too.

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	runespoor7 2009-07-01 05:41 pm UTC (link)
	I don't like it. I can't imagine Alfred of all people ever encouraging rivalries or dislikes between the children, no matter how displeased he was with the behaviour of one of them. That remark gives off a vibe of pettiness I can't imagine ever associating with him. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	rbenchley 2009-07-01 05:49 pm UTC (link)
	I don't read that line as Alfred as encouraging what Tim did, but rather he's saying that while he disapproves of Tim fighting with Damian, he completely understands Tim's impulse to smack the shit out of him. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sistermagpie 2009-07-01 05:49 pm UTC (link)
	It certainly doesn't match his attitude in B&R! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	mysteryfan 2009-07-01 06:00 pm UTC (link)
	Heh. True. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sherkahn 2009-07-01 06:02 pm UTC (link)
	Let's face it. When the kids misbehaved, Alfred always plays Good Cop to Bruce's Bad Cop. Without Bruce around to "hammer the message home" Alfred will need someone else to upbraid Damien now and then. It's an understanding that a parent has that sometimes a scolding is not enough to teach someone respect. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

runespoor7
2009-07-01 06:17 pm UTC (link)

No, Alfred played the moral compass. Whenever Bruce scolded Robin because Robin had got badly hurt, Alfred was the one telling Robin that Bruce's coldness and anger was not because he thought Robin had failed, but because he'd been worried.

It's wrong that Tim, whose motives for upbraiding Damian are at least partly based on jealousy, gets such authority over the kid, and I can't imagine Alfred condoning that, especially given that Dick is around and is supposed to be the authority figure.

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sherkahn
2009-07-01 06:50 pm UTC (link)

In the case of Damien I beg to differ. While Bruce never laid a hand on Dick or Tim, neither of them has been as destructive and as lethal as Damien has been trained to be before coming into the Bat family. While Alfred must show that he disapproves of laying a hand on Damien by Tim, he also acknowledges that often times Damien must learn respect the hard way. If he had finished the sentence, Alfred would have approved that Tim did not let Damien get away with disrespecting him.

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parsimonia
2009-07-01 07:09 pm UTC (link)

I see it more as Alfred joking a bit, implying that he can understand Tim's motivation for behaving that way with Damien, but being sure to emphasize that he is not officially endorsing it. After all, Damien has killed people and threatened to kill Tim, I believe.

That remark gives off a vibe of pettiness I can't imagine ever associating with him.

Idunno, I'm sure he's made petty remarks to Bruce out of frustration. If Tim had been there and a conversation could've taken place, I can see Alfred going on to say something about how Tim has to understand how insecure Damien is probably feeling and that Tim mustn't second-guess his importance to Dick or Bruce, etc.

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	runespoor7 2009-07-01 07:15 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, but Alfred being petty and/or sarcastic about Bruce is completely different from endorsing Tim being violent at Damian. (Not to mention that nothing good ever comes from parental figure taking the side of a child behind the other children's backs.) This scene does come way to close to endorsement for me. Maybe I'll feel different in context. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kitty_tc_69 2009-07-01 10:43 pm UTC (link)
	I'm happy for the anti-Damien snipe, personally. If it were up to me, they'd all be suggesting dropping him down a shaft in the Batcave and having done with it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	dreadedlurker 2009-07-02 01:31 am UTC (link)
	I'll sign that petition. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ar_feiniel_ 2009-07-02 02:33 pm UTC (link)
	motto (Reply to this) (Parent)

	sistermagpie 2009-07-01 05:48 pm UTC (link)
	It's kind of weird the way everybody keeps pushing this TIMOTHY WAYNE thing. I get that Tim is basically using the name to keep himself connected to Bruce as the son who's going to find him, but it seems like in these pages nobody ever loses a chance to use his name--where nobody has ever even wondered if Dick's last name is Wayne. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	sistermagpie 2009-07-01 05:58 pm UTC (link)
	p.s. I assumed Lucius had caught something that Tim did and was upset about it, not that he needed him to do anything running the company. I hadn't thought that he might want him to do something for him/WE. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sherkahn 2009-07-01 06:03 pm UTC (link)
	I'm pretty sure Tim raided some account to fund his activities. No way he can jet across the globe without some cash, and as a Wayne his funds must be tied up in some trust fund. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sistermagpie 2009-07-01 06:06 pm UTC (link)
	That's totally what I thought. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	parsimonia 2009-07-01 06:59 pm UTC (link)
	Well, the other possibility that occurred to me is that between Alfred and Tim's school, they might be reporting him as a missing person, so Lucius might have to deal with that in some way. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	mysteryfan 2009-07-01 05:59 pm UTC (link)
	It IS weird. I don't get it at all. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	superfan1 2009-07-02 06:01 am UTC (link)
	Yeah I also got the same weird feeling, but still impressed enough with the book to pick it up. :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	rbenchley 2009-07-01 06:03 pm UTC (link)
	Actually, if anyone in the DC Universe is going to make a big deal of Tim legally being Bruce's son, it would be Lucius Fox. As Bruce's heir, there would be issues that Lucius, presumably the executor of Bruce's estate, would need to take care of regarding Tim. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sistermagpie 2009-07-01 06:07 pm UTC (link)
	Definitely--but that doesn't apply to what his last name is one way or the other. Dick's his heir too and his last name isn't Wayne. (Reply to this) (Parent)

parsimonia
2009-07-01 07:03 pm UTC (link)

The thing about Dick, though, is that his official adoption came later in life than it did for Tim. Having someone be your legal ward doesn't normally imply having their name changed (at least, I would think).

Not only that, but I really doubt Bruce would've suggested any of the name changes, for fear that he'd be disrespecting Dick or Tim's parents. I get the sense that the name change was Tim's idea, and maybe even his way of returning the affection that Bruce's adoption of him implies. Especially given he initially rejected the idea of being adopted, I think he must have taken the commitment very seriously when he did accept it.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

sistermagpie
2009-07-01 07:17 pm UTC (link)

Being a ward definitely doesn't imply a name change. You're not related at all. But Tim wasn't actually that much younger than Dick. He was still a minor where Dick was an adult, but we're talking late-teens. He was pretty independent by the time he was adopted. He was older than Jason, who was Jason Todd until (and, uh, after) he died despite being adopted by Bruce. Particularly after having Dick and Jason as examples I would probably have assumed Tim was still Tim Drake unless told otherwise. (I remember when Bruce gave Dick the papers as an adult he said made a point of saying he didn't have to change his name--it was pretty adorable.)

Not that Tim can't do that if he has his reasons. He has every right to the name just as Dick and Jason do and particularly in this story I think Yost has explained why it's important for him to use it. (I wouldn't be surprised if the arc ended with him going back to Drake because he doesn't need the name to tell him he's Bruce's son.) It's just that when Tim was adopted in canon it seemed like there were all these characters who suddenly were all "Tim Drake...or is it Wayne now?" as if it was a serious question both inside and outside of canon and that always confused me because I didn't get why I would assume the name was changed when Dick's and Jason's weren't and nobody ever asked why afaik.

Lucius here, of course, might have just discovered some shenanigans where money went into the account of a "Tim Wayne" and that's why he's storming around using the name.

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	icon_uk 2009-07-01 07:21 pm UTC (link)
	Except Tim never used a Wayne surname when he was adopted either, he was ALWAYS Tim Drake. This seems to be have been done after Bruce's death. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	requiem2adream 2009-07-01 06:03 pm UTC (link)
	I like the fact that Yost is picking up with supporting characters that were in Robin before it was cancelled, like Jamie Harper and Jason Bard. Is that Ives and Zoanne as well? bounces I can't wait for this. I'm really enjoying it so far. (Reply to this) (Thread)

parsimonia
2009-07-01 06:50 pm UTC (link)

Is that Ives and Zoanne as well?

Yes, I think so! See, this is the kind of thing I love, when the little details of a character's life aren't ignored for the sake of a new plot. If Tim skips town and heads to Europe without telling anyone, of course all sorts of people in his life are going to wonder what's happened to him. And I like that despite the breakup, Zoanne is still shown to exist, you know? In most stories like this, you'd probably never see her again after that.

A comic about a character I like, and one that answers nitpicky questions. That can never not make me happy.

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requiem2adream
2009-07-01 08:15 pm UTC (link)

And I like that despite the breakup, Zoanne is still shown to exist, you know? In most stories like this, you'd probably never see her again after that.

Indeed! I actually quite liked Zoanne as well, so having her as (hopefully) supporting character is a-okay in my book :D She made more sense as a girlfriend for Tim than Cassie did, that's for sure. That was totally a rebound thing for both of them.

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	parsimonia 2009-07-01 08:20 pm UTC (link)
	She made more sense as a girlfriend for Tim than Cassie did, that's for sure. Definitely, I liked that they bonded over non-superhero things, since I think Tim really needs a non-superhero part of his life. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	requiem2adream 2009-07-01 08:22 pm UTC (link)
	He does! Which is why I was so sad when Ives and co. disappeared from Robin. I loved that the two of them could just be geeky boys together. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	So good. lacunatattoo 2009-07-01 06:18 pm UTC (link)
	So very good. Say what you want about Yost's writing, but the man knows how to build a plot. He said he aimed for this to be a Jason Bourne/Bond-esque adventure for our young Master Timothy, and it's shaping up well. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: So good. ladymirth 2009-07-02 09:30 am UTC (link)
	Mmm. Yes. This. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	ladymirth 2009-07-02 09:35 am UTC (link)
	Okay, so I had my reservations about this title. They're gone now. "Reflection of the scope gave te shooter away" - really? Seriously?? The New and Improved GrimDark Timothy Jackson Drake Wayne is Hardcore and Badass! He can spot snipe-shooters on the next building with his back turned! Can't wait to get my hands on this! (Reply to this)